Abyssea Adjustments - Un-leech

If I have lead , damn straight I'm kicking afker's. If I don't , why should I find yet another party when I built my lights in this one? Key leechs are 1 thing , ppl who go afk just becuz they can is totally different. But then you probably leveled most of your jobs as leech :p

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why should I find yet another party when I built my lights in this one?

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Because you don't like people in that party? I wouldn't party with people I don't like. It shouldn't take until your lights are built up to figure out that the party has a box opener or leecher. If you want control of the participants, then be the leader or team up with a leader who will kick idle players. Otherwise, you take the cards you're dealt.

You don't necessarily have to leave the zone and lose your lights to join another party.
Also, there's a huge difference between peopel AFKing and most "leechers." The latter are NOT afk, and are doing something time consuming that would slow the killing down if a DD or someone else was doing it- opening chests. That's in abyssea.
In Dynamis, that role isn't needed, but dynamis has a level 65 minimum, and if you meet that minimum, you're at least somewhat capable of contributing, so if you're not AFK, you're fine.

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Originally Posted by Pennylane

If I have lead , damn straight I'm kicking afker's. If I don't , why should I find yet another party when I built my lights in this one? Key leechs are 1 thing , ppl who go afk just becuz they can is totally different. But then you probably leveled most of your jobs as leech :p

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I agree with you a key leech is fine but afk players get the boot in my party's as well.I the way i see it is if your not there to help then you are no help and will be reped with some one who will help ^^

the ppl who argue that it's ok to go afk is usually the ones who stay afk in partys lol

sigh , why should I have thought you might understand what I was saying..What I meant by leechers is this: People who afk for extended periods of time without saying brb. Even those who do leave for extended periods of time for reasons such as : I need a short nap..mind if I stay? I need to go pickup my drunk ass roommate..mind if I stay? Going out to pickup dinner , mind if I stay? ..etc. I didnt mean the ONE key leech thats there legit. TYVM.

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Originally Posted by Pennylane

sigh , why should I have thought you might understand what I was saying..What I meant by leechers is this: People who afk for extended periods of time without saying brb. Even those who do leave for extended periods of time for reasons such as : I need a short nap..mind if I stay? I need to go pickup my drunk ass roommate..mind if I stay? Going out to pickup dinner , mind if I stay? ..etc. I didnt mean the ONE key leech thats there legit. TYVM.

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I understand what you are saying. The ppl im talking about are the ones who join then go afk and don't tell anyone or have been there 15 min and say have to run to town bb in 30 min or an hour. My point is if you join a party to afk then you are wasting everyones time and shouldn't be there.

Sorry VxdragonxV , I was actually talking to Alhanelem when I said :sigh , why should I have thought you might understand.."
And thankyou VxdragonxV for agreeing :)

I would caution people on this subject, as often times the cure is worse than the disease. Imagine some auto kick feature was introduced, and you were dced or had a sudden emergency and found yourself booted from the group when you returned? Perhaps a group you spent hours putting together? That would be a lot more annoying then enduring a few leechers in an abyssea alliance now and then.

Really I don't see the big issue here. Exp is easy enough to get on this game. If you find yourself in a group with too many "leechers" that it annoys you, simply leave the group and go get your own exp. Odds are if you are staying in the group anyway it's because you are getting better exp than you could alone, so not a whole lot to complain about really. Just leave if it annoys you so bad, or form your own groups with players you trust not to "leech".

I wish that they had it to where if you stand anywhere idle for more than 2 hrs you got booted...

Goodbye MH exit lag, Port Jeuno lag (or at least it would reduce it).

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Originally Posted by Izzybella

I wish that they had it to where if you stand anywhere idle for more than 2 hrs you got booted...

Goodbye MH exit lag, Port Jeuno lag (or at least it would reduce it).

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Goodbye Bazaars, ToD camping, LFP'ing outside the MH (useful to hear shouts yo), etc

Oh look. It's this topic again.

When I get back into game I'm going to leech a job up. It'll be a barrel of fun.

I like the idea of an "Auto Kick BUT I would like to see SE also give the Alliance leader some control. Like if someone does have to go eat dinner or something the Alliance leader could go to party menu & set that person to "Away" or something & that would prevent them from the "Auto Kick". Unless SE was able to give us someway of controlling who is AFK for a real reason & who is leeching then there is no way this could work.

I also feel that 30 is to low to enter Abyssea but 7-75+ is to high. The 60 range is a fair lvl to make entry. By that time the player will know what there job is about and not be totally once reached 90 & getting XP in non-abyssea areas are really good now so getting to 6 the "old way" would bring some life back to the other area's which is much needed.

Another thing that needs to be adjusted in order for this to work is making you able to skill up wen in LVL Sync. but that is another topic..

NightDagger
Lakshmi

There are several reason why you might need/want to go afk in abyssea that do not involve leeching (or perhaps you are in a pt with friends who are actually wanting to leech you). A change like one presented by OP would be a bit too drastic. If you don't want leechers in your pt, have the leader kick them. If the leader is "too busy" to kick someone, then the wrong person is leading your pt.

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Originally Posted by Pennylane

If I have lead , damn straight I'm kicking afker's. If I don't , why should I find yet another party when I built my lights in this one?...

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Because apparently the Party and/or leader is still competent enough, and the experience points are still good enough that you don't want to leave.

You would most likely leave if the party kept messing up on pulls and died on each mob. Nothing wrong with that.

But the exp is *still* so damn good even with a leecher that it makes you not want to leave that party. Your purpose in joining that party was to gain exp, and leech or not, the rest of the party has fulfilled that for you.

It depends on what kind of leeching. I have no problem with a level 30 job in abyssea doing keys. Their job is to open chests, mine is to kill mobs to spawn the chests. People who are there just to stand there and contribute nothing to the party annoy me though.

And as far as auot kick from abyssea goes. Wouldn't just autorunning into a wall get around that?

I think booting an inactive player from abyssea is a bad idea... I like to go in to abyssea and build up crazy amounts of time (600+ min) and then farm gold chests solo. It's nice if you build up that much time to be able to take a break for a few hours and do something else. Furthermore the people who cheat can easily avoid this auto kick thing by use of a bot. A system like this would never punish the people who are most likely to abuse it because those are the same people who would run a bot to stay in abyssea.

That aside I love bringing a level 30 job into abyssea and walking out at 70+. I do it with a group of friends in my ls and I don't see how that's hurting anyone else's abyssea experience.

won't happen.
maybe to 60 but not on to 75.
i never was afk leeching my sub i opened chests and got replacements for the alliance so don't you dare to say: you never work for you exp. have fun opening chests for yourself and constantly missin the cruor for brews.

lvl 60 min for abyssea entrance is allright above that sheer stupidity.

but again: that wil not happen.
/thread

Make doing something else more appealing than leeching for those low level players, and/or give them something more they can do in abyssea that involves other low level people.

I've leeched in abyssea some. It wasn't by choice, I really wanted to level and actually play my job but I could sit around passing up exping a job for weeks and weeks or slowly grind my way solo. I had my flag up, and got invited - I view that as lucky. Another job I made my own alliance for. It beat slowly grinding out solo while waiting for an invite. I have a few jobs I still refuse to take to abyssea - I worked my rear off making sure I had very good, even exceptional mid level gear and dangit I intend to use it, those jobs are fun and I want to bash mobs heads in with my pre-abyssea muled over shinies /sulk

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Originally Posted by Method

And as far as auot kick from abyssea goes. Wouldn't just autorunning into a wall get around that?

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Yes, but seeing someone humping a wall is a quick way to detect an afker. So it would still be a good idea.

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But then you probably leveled most of your jobs as leech

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I leveled zero jobs as a leech. I raised BLM from 37 to 49 as a key person. And I was active the entire time.

I agree people who AFK for long periods of time suck. But these people can be any level- they're not just low level people and changing the level limits isn't going to stop that.

im all for lowering it to level 1 as well.

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Originally Posted by Topdogg

inb4 /gearswap

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i cant count likely how many PC players Use windower and likely anyone who tries to Gearswap to break /follow said PC player likely If they have windower, has BlinkMeNot. so /gearswap = Useless

as to Boxing. one simple solution, Lower the cost of Forbidden Keys, though i know this one trick works on brown treasure chests outside Abby, but if the THF key trick works on blue/gold/red Pryx boxes (as i've never asked any thf to try.)

Minimum lvl 90 would fix that prob fesho.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-from-30-to-70

Why is there such a problem with leechers? I'm new to abyssea since im returning so I dont understand the whole concept much but it would seem that its about as bad as maybe someone botting by being AFK and letting something else do all the work to level them.

What if you join at 30 but dont go afk? And you do things (or as much as you can for that level) is that just as bad?

Personally I dont mind people having easy ways to level because it doesnt affect my gameplay but i guess being AFK is just kind of rude.

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What if you join at 30 but dont go afk? And you do things (or as much as you can for that level) is that just as bad?

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usually, this is fine, because these people are doing something useful. mainly, people are complaining about people who go afk without warning and never come back.

I don't think this is SE's job to fix, guys. We have to be to accountable to get those people out of party and make room for someone who actually wants xp/cruor. Drop 'em, re-alli, do what you have to do. If you want this behavior to stop, you will have to stop it when you see it.

Don't be cruel, but be sensible. If a person hasn't said anything, moved, or performed an action for a reasonable amount of time, that player needs to go.

I find it hilarious how people reject the idea of the game being easier. You want to play a frustrating game with tedious gameplay? LOL This isn't 1990.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

No just No.

If you have a problem with people taking level 30 jobs to get exp in abyssea then don't join those parties. If SE actually did listen to you complainers and raised the level cap on abyssea next thing you be complaining about is how you have nobody to do keys now and how nobody wants to do them because they need their curor for brewing NMs.

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This.

We need our key poppers as well. I honestly see nothing wrong with it as long as the person wants to actually learn the job when they get it to 90 (or are leveling it as a subjob).

I agree with the OP's initial thought that the level cap for these areas should be raised to 70+. However, leeching isn't necessarily the full problem. The problem with allowing level 30 players into these areas to be key whores is that it has a similar effect that summoner burning did. That being; it creates people who do not know how to play their jobs.

When summoner burning was all the rage I can not count how many people I got into exp parties with who were more than obvious products of it simply because they really just didn't play their job right. It wasn't about gear, it was about the fact that they genuinely did not know HOW to play. ( These include Paladins not knowing they had magic nor knowing what provoke is despite having warrior sub, thieves that are level 40+ not knowing what SATA is, these are just some of the examples off of the top of my head. )

So, my worry is that there is going to be a huge uprising of these people who don't know how to play jobs correctly because they didn't have the time to learn how to. They just shot up from level 30 to 75+ in a day.

Now ask yourselves, do you really want to be involved in an important end game event with one of these folks who have no idea what they're doing? I know I certainly wouldn't... And that is why I support a 70+ cap on these areas.

I believe the cap on abyssea should indeed be raised because I believe the economy of Final Fantasy 11 ( depending on which server) Is degrading because players can go inside abyssea... obtain around 70,000 Cruor... buy all 3 Cruor sets for DD/Mage/Thf type jobs and sell them all back to the NPC and make roughly 150,000 Gil... now if thats constantly happening then how is the economy/auction house going to keep flowing for the rest of us not to mention new players, that is my only complaint... Leechers on the other hand need not be invited into an abyssea party I will not work for their XP go get it yourself like I did the old fashioned way.

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Originally Posted by Reiii

it creates people who do not know how to play their jobs.

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This argument has been shot to heck in every single one of the past 5 threads on this; at least a dozen times each. I'm tired of writing out the same response to it. End result, how someone levels really has no effect on how good or bad a player they are.

I leveled my original 2 jobs the old, old fashioned way that most people posting on these forums probably don't know even existed. Moon. If ever there was a camp that made me want to pull my hair out, it was moon. I'll tell you right now, I learned exponentially more about my jobs by discovering ffxiclopedia, somepage (lol), and BlueGartr than I ever did from exp'ing.

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Originally Posted by Reiii

...When summoner burning was all the rage I can not count how many people I got into exp parties with who were more than obvious products of it simply because they really just didn't play their job right. It wasn't about gear, it was about the fact that they genuinely did not know HOW to play. ( These include Paladins not knowing they had magic nor knowing what provoke is despite having warrior sub, thieves that are level 40+ not knowing what SATA is, these are just some of the examples off of the top of my head. )...

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Before Astral Burn, before the ToAU expansion came out, I partied with a Paladin in Saumour-whatever Champaign. When I asked her why she didn't use her magic at all to cure herself throughout so many fights she replied,

"Cuz the mob will just interrupt me lol"

Actually Reiii, I've had many friends who have key leeched jobs from 30 to 90 and they knew how to play the job better than I did when I leveled it old school from 1~75.

So in theory, yes, a lot of idiots will be produced. But in actuality? A lot of the people key leeching have already played the game long enough to know what they're doing. I see nothing wrong with level 30s being allowed in; it makes getting subjobs (~49) capped easier, and after tasting the delicious xp of Abyssea, who wants to go back to original partying?

I most certainly don't.

If the cap is raised from 30 to 70, the odds are very high I will never take another job up. Even subjobs. I started over with a new character and I don't feel like grinding all of my favorite jobs like I had the first time through. (On my Elvaan I had WHM, BRD, SMN, BLM, BST, THF, RDM all 75. On my taru, I leveled BLM to 90 and RDM to 49. Contemplating leveling WHM and SMN to 90, but still undecided.)

It is a game meant to be fun. Spending hours getting slow xp is not fun. Spending months getting a job to the last level is not fun. If people want to learn their job they will learn their job. If they don't want to learn their job, then avoid playing with them in the future.

I know reputations mean a lot on my server. If you suck, people avoid you.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

This argument has been shot to heck in every single one of the past 5 threads on this; at least a dozen times each. I'm tired of writing out the same response to it. End result, how someone levels really has no effect on how good or bad a player they are.

I leveled my original 2 jobs the old, old fashioned way that most people posting on these forums probably don't know even existed. Moon. If ever there was a camp that made me want to pull my hair out, it was moon. I'll tell you right now, I learned exponentially more about my jobs by discovering ffxiclopedia, somepage (lol), and BlueGartr than I ever did from exp'ing.

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Now, I'm not saying that every single person who burns from 30 to 90 is one of these folks who don't know what they're doing. If someone takes the time to study up on how to play a job before hand then by all means please do burn it from 30-90. If you have the knowledge then I have no issue. But when it comes to people who seriously don't know what they're doing at the start then they really shouldn't bother.

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Originally Posted by Linh

Before Astral Burn, before the ToAU expansion came out, I partied with a Paladin in Saumour-whatever Champaign. When I asked her why she didn't use her magic at all to cure herself throughout so many fights she replied,

"Cuz the mob will just interrupt me lol"

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Unfortunately, there will always be those who are completely clueless, regardless of how ever they leveled. In most cases they start out the game as such and don't have any one around to help guide them in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Actually Reiii, I've had many friends who have key leeched jobs from 30 to 90 and they knew how to play the job better than I did when I leveled it old school from 1~75.

So in theory, yes, a lot of idiots will be produced. But in actuality? A lot of the people key leeching have already played the game long enough to know what they're doing. I see nothing wrong with level 30s being allowed in; it makes getting subjobs (~49) capped easier, and after tasting the delicious xp of Abyssea, who wants to go back to original partying?

I most certainly don't.

If the cap is raised from 30 to 70, the odds are very high I will never take another job up. Even subjobs. I started over with a new character and I don't feel like grinding all of my favorite jobs like I had the first time through. (On my Elvaan I had WHM, BRD, SMN, BLM, BST, THF, RDM all 75. On my taru, I leveled BLM to 90 and RDM to 49. Contemplating leveling WHM and SMN to 90, but still undecided.)

It is a game meant to be fun. Spending hours getting slow xp is not fun. Spending months getting a job to the last level is not fun. If people want to learn their job they will learn their job. If they don't want to learn their job, then avoid playing with them in the future.

I know reputations mean a lot on my server. If you suck, people avoid you.

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I'm perfectly fine with those who know how to play the job beforehand burning it. If you're well aware of how to play the right way then by all means go for it. :)

Wow, this thread has de-railed. Was not about the minimum lvl to entry or lvl 30 jobs keying, It's about afk leechers.

Abyssea has brought out the WoW nuts in the community. personaly the reason i play FFXI is the fact that it is hard and you have to think. now with Abyssea i cant find a party past the jungle. yes, im one of those people who would rather level a job the long way, it makes it so the game has more life to it.

i would agree that the min lvl entry for Abyssea needs to be raised from 30 to at least 65+ more likely 70. The old zones need some use or there just a waist of space and you should just delete them.

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That being; it creates people who do not know how to play their jobs.

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This really isn't true. In the vast majority of cases, people who do this won't be functional whether they know how to play the job or not. Thus, they have to go back and grind to raise skill levels.

Secondly, the game is very old and there are very few "noobs" left in the game (other than those who will basically be noobs forever). The chances that someone is going to summoner burn or leach and then be a bad player are low.

Regardless- So what if it produces bad players. You just don't play with them, and then they're forced to improve. Simple.

No change here is necessary. Level restricting abyssea isn't going to teach anyone who doesn't know how to play what to do. Any problems can be resolved through existing ingame mechanics such as the kick button and the blacklist.

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Originally Posted by Topdogg

Wow, this thread has de-railed. Was not about the minimum lvl to entry or lvl 30 jobs keying, It's about afk leechers.

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In that case, it's pretty much been answered already. If people going afk all the time is a problem, people need to police each other better. If you don't appreciate that random DD going afk for 30 minutes without notice, kick him or D2 him.

There are plenty of reasons to afk in Abyssea. Some ls or friend groups may be perfectly okay letting friends leave their characters on for exp while they go out and do other stuff. Other people may choose to take advantage of their massive Visitant time and simply go take a break and watch some tv or a movie before coming back to Abyssea with capped lights.

There's really no need for any sort of automation when players are perfectly capable of handling this "epidemic" on their own.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Are you speaking from experience or what? It's one thing to theorycraft, but "One or two ruby breaks everything"? Really? We finished two Empyreans in maybe 4-5 days taking it slowly. Burning stones does use up time as well, warping, replenishing stones, and rebuilding Amber are all steps that can be completely avoided by just not leaving Abyssea.

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Rebuilding amber light = one-two cleave pulls (10 '). It's instant, grabing 2 or 3 stones is maybe 5 min every 100 min. I just find it hilarous that you claim that it takes you 20 hours to cap on Chloris, because with only amber finding it would take you 10H considering blue chest don't pop anymore... and it would cost only 20 stones.

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I'm losing maybe 20 seconds per Chloris melee'ing it down under the threshold where a WS would kill it, or about 10 minutes from 0-50 buds (assuming TH, average drop rate of 1.66/NM, 30 mobs).

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I'm not talking about ruby killing Chloris, but normal NMs, which you are bound to do for efficiency if you are getting 50% of blue chest and only 50% of gold chests, because you can have strectches of 1 hours+ when you don't get the required KI, keep getting the same KI that you are capping on, at which point finishing a set is more efficient ; It's the same with only amber farming but since gold coffer pop twice as fast it's not as bad to spam them instead of NMs.