To the devs!

Not that Rdm' doesn't need buffs/modifications but I can easily argue in the case of Sch Pup Drg Bst and Cor, they needed them more than Rdm did.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Not seeing what's so incidental about Rdm getting a final sword weapon. Rdm's final weapons are all swords and 1 dagger.

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Not trying to be a jerk, but i think it is 2 daggers. http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Oneiros_Knife . That being said, not for WS and only as an offhand for an Almace. I'll concede we have only 1 main hand dagger, but we have 2 useful ones. Which still doesn't completely explain why we only have 2 good daggers and a B in dagger skill.....

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

Sword users got a good weaponskill and RDM is one of the 3 sword users. I struggle to understand why you look at that with such spite. At least RDM didn't get Cloudsplitter!

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That's funny because we could have actually used Cloudsplitter, unlike a BST/WAR that doesnt have access to high levels of MAB/MAC. The STR/MND mods are typical of sword user WSs. It would have been the Melee equivalent of Wildfire on a RDM because of the difference in gearing options for a RDM vs a COR. 40% of STR/MND would have gone a long way on RDM and we would have had the MAB/MAC to hit and hit well.

The job that should have the most good Magical WSs in the game only has 1 natively and it's an AOE. Sanguine Blade is a survival tool, not a damage tool. Why doesn't RDM still have a good elemental WS, so it can tear up mobs?

I'm only pointing out SE does a good job of mixing things up for no apparent reason. I love my Almace and CDC, but it doesn't fit the job as well as other options would have. We have naturally weak Attack ratings so we are never going to get the most out of CDC. There seems to be no real logical sense to how they adjust jobs and design WSs, because it's certainly not based off which jobs need it the most. Just look at Cloudsplitter since you brought it up. It doesn't make any sense to be on BST or WAR. I mean, maybe DRK, but that isn't going to make anyone happy.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Not that Rdm' doesn't need buffs/modifications but I can easily argue in the case of Sch Pup Drg Bst and Cor, they needed them more than Rdm did.

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I'm hoping you mean that they actually got buffs (past tense), because that is what I'm seeing. Just listen to your friend GG, COR is functional and still a good job. BST solos pretty much anything that can be solo'd. DRG is getting recasts lowered and they have gotten tougher wyverns and the ability to use breath moves on a timer. SCH and PUP get buffs constantly, most likely because they actually need them.

RDM gets maintenance. SE is perfectly content to keep RDM down where it is at because they have the conception that it is some kind of juggernaut of exploitation that makes it too powerful even though they already cut off and cauterized all of it's unintended strengths. Temper is the only thing of worth that came out since 75 and only half the people playing RDM even use it.

Instead of Double Attack, RDM could have used a potent MAB buff spell and MAB linked WSs to use it on. It wouldn't have even had to been self cast only since it would only be applicable to 1/4 of the jobs in the game. My point and several other people's point is that RDM gets blanket buffs but never gets specialized attention that is relevant to our job. I feel RDM has become grossly marginalized and has been stripped of any positive job identity. We could have been good at something, but currently we aren't particularly good at anything and that is a crappy place to be.

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Originally Posted by saevel

And now we have it, your trying to insinuate RDM's got some sort of buff via CDC and call it a day.

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You're seriously going to sit there and try to argue that RDM getting CDC did not improve Red Mage's melee capabilities? And he calls the rest of us trolls... /roll_eyes

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Not trying to be a jerk, but i think it is 2 daggers. http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Oneiros_Knife . That being said, not for WS and only as an offhand for an Almace. I'll concede we have only 1 main hand dagger, but we have 2 useful ones. Which still doesn't completely explain why we only have 2 good daggers and a B in dagger skill.....

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I was referring to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean as 'final' weapons. Rdm has a sword for each and is on dagger as well for Relic. There was no precedence for Rdm getting Dagger and not Sword, so I don't find Rdm being on Almace 'incidental'.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I'm hoping you mean that they actually got buffs (past tense), because that is what I'm seeing. Just listen to your friend GG, COR is functional and still a good job. BST solos pretty much anything that can be solo'd. DRG is getting recasts lowered and they have gotten tougher wyverns and the ability to use breath moves on a timer. SCH and PUP get buffs constantly, most likely because they actually need them.

RDM gets maintenance. SE is perfectly content to keep RDM down where it is at because they have the conception that it is some kind of juggernaut of exploitation that makes it too powerful even though they already cut off and cauterized all of it's unintended strengths. Temper is the only thing of worth that came out since 75 and only half the people playing RDM even use it.

Instead of Double Attack, RDM could have used a potent MAB buff spell and MAB linked WSs to use it on. It wouldn't have even had to been self cast only since it would only be applicable to 1/4 of the jobs in the game. My point and several other people's point is that RDM gets blanket buffs but never gets specialized attention that is relevant to our job. I feel RDM has become grossly marginalized and has been stripped of any positive job identity. We could have been good at something, but currently we aren't particularly good at anything and that is a crappy place to be.

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Bst soloing doesn't really matter outside of dynamis, and otherwise is still an unpopular job for the rest of the game. Cor is/was one of the least popular jobs next to Pup; only after Wildfire and other changes has cor started to look more attractive. Sch wasn't much better off and even with all the changes isn't a very popular job, unlike the other mages bar Blu (heck Blu is still more popular than Sch...).

Think we're mostly in agreement with your last statement, yes Rdm is in a bad place right now, but the other jobs who received buffs were in a even worse position in my opinion.

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There was no precedence for Rdm getting Dagger and not Sword, so I don't find Rdm being on Almace 'incidental'.

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*Cough* Aeolian Edge vs Sanguine Blade

I know it's not a weapon, but it is a Weapon skill. And we weren't on the bigger DMG Bastard / Scimatar Class swords for a long time. This is SE, I ~really~ don't trust them.

Rdm has never learned Ex weaponskills for Sword without appropriate subjob. The problem was Sanguine Blade was a Ex WS.

As bad as SE is at times I highly doubt they would give Rdm a 'final' dagger and not Sword especially since they haven't in the past. They have been pretty bullish on other gear but they probably consider it 'balance' since Rdm has self enhancing spells. Or something.

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And we weren't on the bigger DMG Bastard / Scimatar Class swords for a long time.

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Excalibur and Almace are longswords. RDM doesn't get any Scimitars except for Sapara of Trials I believe.

Almace being one hell of a longsword and downright ridiculous on Taru. Or any race but it's really obvious on Taru.

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And now we have it, your trying to insinuate RDM's got some sort of buff via CDC and call it a day. IDK where you've been living lately, if your here honestly trying to have a discussion or just trolling the RDM forums for lols.

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How does anything I say suggest that we got CDC and we can leave it at that? I said quit with the undermining of the fact we got it as though it was just the run off of PLD and BLU. You're not entitled to it just because PLD and BLU did. One would think you of all people would get that, since you yourself are the one that said it could've just as easily have been Rudra's Storm instead.

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I'm only pointing out SE does a good job of mixing things up for no apparent reason. I love my Almace and CDC, but it doesn't fit the job as well as other options would have. We have naturally weak Attack ratings so we are never going to get the most out of CDC. There seems to be no real logical sense to how they adjust jobs and design WSs, because it's certainly not based off which jobs need it the most. Just look at Cloudsplitter since you brought it up. It doesn't make any sense to be on BST or WAR. I mean, maybe DRK, but that isn't going to make anyone happy.

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I'd rather have a WS that is good before a WS that just fits your image of the job. Gearing for CDC is incredibly simple. Gearing for Cloudsplitter is impossible. Cloudsplitter is not a good WS or even a decent one. Period.

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Every other job has gotten multiple buffs and modifications. RDM was given tier ups and a nifty 10m JA.

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And Gain-Attribute spells. And a new type of debuff. And a job ability that enhances debuffs. And Temper. They may not all be particular useful for the current endgame (even though Voidwatch is now kind of a joke with frequent procs). But don't conveniently neglect to mention them just because they don't suit your argument.

Make a comparison. BLM mostly got "tier ups and a nifty 10m JA" as well, but they are clearly experiencing a surge in popularity. For no other reason than weakness procs. So let us all agree that RDM mostly fails to meet a particular need right now. But that has nothing to do with a lack of updates and everything to do with the developers' irrational fear that being able to land enfeebles will be overpowered. And even if they do land, they don't do crap to new NMs. On a mob like Gaunab, Paralyze II is more useful for it's ability to trigger a weakness than it's intended of effect of actually paralyzing.

And, like whores, many of us (myself included), probably merited Bio III and Blind II because they "might" be the Dark Black Magic that triggers weakness. Not because of any actual desire to have these spells.

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BST solos pretty much anything that can be solo'd.

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Beliefs like that are why the job will never get anything that will make them wanted in groups. Only more stuff that will make people hate BSTs.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

Excalibur and Almace are longswords. RDM doesn't get any Scimitars except for Sapara of Trials I believe.

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I'll say it again,

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And we weren't on the bigger DMG Bastard / Scimatar Class swords for a long time

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And LOL about RDM and Excal prior to recent Dyna updates. Relics were hard enough to get, most shells won't let you sponsor unless your a leader and definitely not for what they call "lolMeleeRDM". You had to say you were getting it for your "PLD", or be in the leaders back pocket.

Plus Xcal isn't even that good for RDM. If you were going to do a relic it should of been Mandau, evis was our best WS prior to CDC being introduced.

That comment was in reference to Bastard Swords have better DPS then Long Swords, our best Long Sword was Enhancing Sword at Lv 68 DMG:40 Delay 240, vs things like Company Sword or Perdu Hangar. This is all pre 80 / abyssea land. Thankfully we were put on the Sword Magian trials which greatly boosted our melee potential, but again SE could just as easily put us on the dagger ones and called it a day.

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Originally Posted by saevel

Thankfully we were put on the Sword Magian trials which greatly boosted our melee potential, but again SE could just as easily put us on the dagger ones and called it a day.

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And they could just as easily have put us on club trials and called it a day. Was there a point you were trying to make or are you just flapping your jaw to the tune of your single-minded narrative again?

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

RDM could have used a potent MAB buff spell

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The magic equivalent of Dia would be nice. Or better yet, Dia and Bio could work for magic defense and magic attack in addition to their current functions. At very least under Saboteur if nothing else, although seeing Diaga II and Diaga III (for RDM with Dia III merits) that also impact magic defense on mobs would be incredibly nice for AE burns with Red Mages.

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How does anything I say suggest that we got CDC and we can leave it at that?

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Well, we've got some saying melee is fine where it's at, which functions under the assumption of having CDC. Even then, it's an uphill battle socially and mathematically, the latter contributing to the former. I'm also of the mind that a job's status should not be reliant on a single item, for as I've coined it before, Zero to Hero status.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

I'd rather have a WS that is good before a WS that just fits your image of the job. Gearing for CDC is incredibly simple. Gearing for Cloudsplitter is impossible. Cloudsplitter is not a good WS or even a decent one. Period.

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For the jobs that get it. I would, once again, love to have a cloudsplitter type WS on RDM, because we could actually gear for it, it would fit the general strengths of the job, and we would be able to be effective with it.

We are in complete agreement that Cloudspiltter sucks on BST and WAR, but the WS itself is not lackluster, only the applicable jobs' ability to use it. It is a good WS that was completely misappropriated. Sorry you can't see the comparison but it's right there.

CDC is a mismatch for RDM because it doesn't play to the jobs strengths and thus it is a blanket buff. It just so happens that crit hit WSs are just plain good almost completely regardless of the situation, so RDM got a lucky break. But what they still havent gotten is any personalized attention to actually fix the majority of the problems the job has.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

And Gain-Attribute spells. And a new type of debuff. And a job ability that enhances debuffs. And Temper.

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Gains are only good when you don't have a WHM, so doing nothing serious. Debuff? Addle that is shared with other jobs or Gravity 2/Break which were useless on shipment? A job ability that is wasted everytime you cast a debuff because the mob was immune or doesn't actually confer any sort of qualitative debuff?

Temper is good. But doesn't do anything for a RDM in a party since clearly, we aren't supposed to melee.



And as far as BLM vs RDM goes. BLM is actually good at it's job by design and has almost every proc and does the most damage nuking. Wonder why they didn't need a bunch of buffs to make them appealing in a system that forces you to proc to get anything good.....

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Originally Posted by Economizer

The magic equivalent of Dia would be nice. Or better yet, Dia and Bio could work for magic defense and magic attack in addition to their current functions. At very least under Saboteur if nothing else, although seeing Diaga II and Diaga III (for RDM with Dia III merits) that also impact magic defense on mobs would be incredibly nice for AE burns with Red Mages.

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That would be pretty great.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Rdm has never learned Ex weaponskills for Sword without appropriate subjob. The problem was Sanguine Blade was a Ex WS.

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The problem is that sword weaponskills were assigned without regards to the jobs that use them. Why would WAR be on ELEMENTAL weaponskills? Why is DRK on them, when RDM, with a HIGHER skill rating, is not? Why is RDM unable to use elemental weaponskills when they are the epitomous magic sword wielder?

SE doesn't want RDM to melee, so they curb weaponskills RDM would natively excel at. They don't want RDM to cast, so they make mobs immune to the one magic skill we excel at. They don't want RDM to cure, don't want RDM to nuke.
And then they turn all that around and give RDM SELF-ONLY spells to enhance our melee... :confused:

Whoever is in charge of RDM job balancing, he's utterly and completely off the beaten track, stuffing local herbs in a handcrafted pipe while soaking in a sulphurous hot mud spring... :mad:

You're ignorant if you think that just because RDM is a mage with some access to MAB in gear/traits that it would somehow make Elemental weaponskills worth using.

Even if RDM got Cloudsplitter, CDC would shit on it. This is one case where the Devs know what you need a hell of a lot better than you do.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

You're ignorant if you think that just because RDM is a mage with some access to MAB in gear/traits that it would somehow make Elemental weaponskills worth using.

Even if RDM got Cloudsplitter, CDC would shit on it. This is one case where the Devs know what you need a hell of a lot better than you do.

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With all due respect, GG, shut up. You say you play a decent COR but somehow you fail to realize where a large portion of your damage is coming from, an Elemental WS. I don't see you complaining about Wildfire, because it is awesome. The people that actually play RDM want something awesome to do with all of their MAB as well.

A RDM using something on the order of Cloud Splitter would be pretty good. Not quite as potent as Wildfire due to WF COR's cheating and using an Ifrits staff, but close. 40% STR / MND favors and being a MAB WS favor's RDM's greatly over BST / WARs.

Heck just look at Sang Blade and Aeolian Edge for a good idea of what a RDM can do on their own. While our melee gear is somewhat sh!t our mage gear, especially MND and MAB, is beyond awesome.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

The people that actually play RDM want something awesome to do with all of their MAB as well.

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http://ifury.net/storage/implied_facepalm.jpg

This is why we can't have nice things.

If you can't find some 'awesome' to do with your MAB trait turn in your chapeau and find an easier job.

hello OP, plz give it time and u will realize Tanaka's vision for RDM. it has come down to rdm being a dem-god wit powering players up, u will see in coming updates this vision to be realized.

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The people that actually play RDM want something awesome to do with all of their MAB as well.

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I was wondering if I should respond to your comment about Cloudsplitter. Telling you that if it's magic damage you really want to do, you could try doing the obvious.

But it looks like other people did a much more subtle job of it. And funnier too.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

With all due respect, GG, shut up. You say you play a decent COR but somehow you fail to realize where a large portion of your damage is coming from, an Elemental WS. I don't see you complaining about Wildfire, because it is awesome. The people that actually play RDM want something awesome to do with all of their MAB as well.

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Wildfire is not Cloudsplitter. Wildfire is the exception, not the rule. Wildfire is the only elemental weaponskill in the entire god damn game that is ever, ever worth using.

Oh yeah, and CdC can handily shit on Wildfire in Per-WS damage with a decent melee at the wheel. Wildfire Corsair is strong because it's Wildfire Corsair and can effectively 1-hit, not because elemental WS are sooper cool.

If you're being destroyed by a Wildfire COR, blame the fact that you're a 1-hand melee with no native offensive traits and crap combat skill swinging with a low D weapon and most likely shit-tier gear and MAcc swords. If a Wildfire Cor is shitting on you, it's probably because they're rocking multiple rolls, a 1-hit build, instant TP/damage JAs that boost WS damage by 15%, and a WS with a 15' range that literally cheats and bypasses typical dStat.

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If you're being destroyed by a Wildfire COR, blame the fact that you're a 1-hand melee with no native offensive traits and crap combat skill swinging with a low D weapon and most likely shit-tier gear and MAcc swords. If a Wildfire Cor is shitting on you, it's probably because they're rocking multiple rolls, a 1-hit build, instant TP/damage JAs that boost WS damage by 15%, and a WS with a 15' range that literally cheats and bypasses typical dStat.

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They should rename Wildfire "Cheatshot" it would totally fit the whole Pirate/Gambler theme of Corsair.

As usual, the classier crowd shows up to tell me my opinion. Oh wait you missed again, that wasn't what I was thinking.

Sorry you don't agree with me and you can't manage to have a decent conversation without berating another person. I'll just leave you to your social dysfunctions and unimaginative ranting. Your pictures and swearing make amazing statements.

NQ gets props for being legit and a classy gentleman. Yeah i get it. You want to nuke and I want to hit stuff. No reason a RDM can't use MAB for both since you can. Would be nice if both of those aspects received favorable attention.

I see no reason why my attraction for slashing stuff has to be related to a trait that enhances magical prowess, but apparently that's just me? The only exception I can think of is enspells, but they are hate free damage, and even if sch did benefit, at the very least they don't have as much issues as they used to with resistance.

SE's made it pretty clear how much they either 1. hate elemental weaponskills (older ones have either crap mods and/or have incredibly poor scaling, if they even have mods at all, and some aren't even affected by MAB...); 2. They're just going to make it exclusive, and this has gone as far back as Red Lotus Blade, so they have a record of doing this.

Until either of these scenario changes I'd rather stick to a sure deal, than one I'm confident SE is going to muck up somehow.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Until either of these scenario changes I'd rather stick to a sure deal, than one I'm confident SE is going to muck up somehow.

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I can respect that.

I still want mage-related buffs for RDM that just so happen to affect the rest of the job in a positive manner. The only reason I keep bringing this up is I don't want a couple more sloppy buffs to RDM, that generally offend most of us, and then SE call it a day. I think we all know how long it takes SE to get around to buffing specific jobs in FFXI. I don't want to get left out and then have to wait another year+ for another chance at it.

I only have 2 concerns at the moment really, Enfeebling magic on difficult mobs (either being heavily resisted immune/having little to no effect) and Cure IV falling behind at higher level (personally, I think they should just remove the soft cap for III/IV). I can work around almost anything else.

Will Rage if SE's 'solution' is Paralyze III still not landing on mobs.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

I can respect that.

I still want mage-related buffs for RDM that just so happen to affect the rest of the job in a positive manner. The only reason I keep bringing this up is I don't want a couple more sloppy buffs to RDM, that generally offend most of us, and then SE call it a day. I think we all know how long it takes SE to get around to buffing specific jobs in FFXI. I don't want to get left out and then have to wait another year+ for another chance at it.

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I never got that about the anti-melee-RDM crowd. None of us are diminishing the mage side, to the contrary many of the pro-melee-RDM's play the mage side just as much. What we're speaking out against is a side of our job that has mostly been neglected and sloppily implemented. No reason not to have a +MAB like spell that doesn't stack with Temper, or go one step further and add +FC or +Cure Pot spells that all overwrite each other. This way any RDM could turn themselves into "demi-gods" to support their party, which is the correct translation of that manifesto.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

As usual, the classier crowd shows up to tell me my opinion. Oh wait you missed again, that wasn't what I was thinking.

Sorry you don't agree with me and you can't manage to have a decent conversation without berating another person. I'll just leave you to your social dysfunctions and unimaginative ranting. Your pictures and swearing make amazing statements.

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But it was certainly what you were saying.

Because comments like "The people that actually play RDM want something awesome to do with all of their MAB as well" totally wasn't worded to undermine other posters here. Drop the finger wagging. You're hardly a saint.

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

NQ gets props for being legit and a classy gentleman. Yeah i get it. You want to nuke and I want to hit stuff. No reason a RDM can't use MAB for both since you can. Would be nice if both of those aspects received favorable attention

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Originally Posted by saevel

I never got that about the anti-melee-RDM crowd. None of us are diminishing the mage side, to the contrary many of the pro-melee-RDM's play the mage side just as much.

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For people who get all uppity thinking people misunderstand you, you are way off the mark here. Go back and try reading. It wasn't at all anti-melee anything. It was all talk about whether it was the right call to get the multi-crit WS that we got. Or would we have been better off with the magical WS. I say how about the option that covers more ground rather than more menu clutter for types of damage we're already capable of doing?

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

Because comments like "The people that actually play RDM want something awesome to do with all of their MAB as well" totally wasn't worded to undermine other posters here. Drop the finger wagging. You're hardly a saint.

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Well I should think not. I doubt I've taken any time to try to substantiate a claim for being canonized. That would be a complete waste of time and would be self contradictory.

GG admits he doesn't play RDM anymore. I have no interest in listening to his or anyone's opinion on RDM unless they are actually willing to play it. If you can't suffer through another ambiguous RDM phase then I don't really have any interest in listening to an opinion from someone that has already given up and is crying/trolling from the sidelines instead of playing the job that you should still love to play.

I solo aby NMs for my other jobs all the time with my RDM. It is a delight to play RDM in it's current incarnation on lower level content because it takes a level of effort that I've always associated with this game. I take my RDM to Dynamis because it is fun and I'm in no rush to throw away content that I'll enjoy as a RDM for the efficiency of another job. No idea when I'll get something new to play as a RDM, might as well enjoy playing it in the meantime.

The plain truth is that RDM doesn't do anything substantial in VW or any current content that came out in the last 2 level caps. I'm pretty tired of not having a legitimate role in a party through merits of my job. Enfeebles are broken and we are 2nd rate at everything else by design. Pretending that a staff on your back suddenly makes RDM viable again is a farce. The job isn't viable regardless of how hard any of us struggle to make it so.

I'm really not sure if you're aware of it, but my only real purpose for being on these forums in to start enough discussions about things I'm concerned about that so that I can make sure we didn't at least attempt to give feedback. Getting transparency from the Devs has proven impossible and RDM at 99 looks as crappy as it did at any other point after the level cap was raised. In my opinion, they have failed to properly integrate this job into the current state of this game. The only way I get any answers is by poking at the devs as hard as I can to see if I get a response.

Look at how many responses from devs there are on the board. Look who started those discussions. It shouldn't surprise you that Saevel and I, the horrible melee RDMs, have started the majority of those threads. I won't discount anyone else that participated in the discussions, because obviously participation is necessary to create discussions. But I see a common trend of people actually discussing things they are concerned over and then an irrational opposition coming in to start a turf war over the least viable job in the game.

Why don't the supposed pro mage RDMs start discussions on things you want to see happen to RDM instead of walking into other people's discussions and intentionally starting fights?

Do you just not have anything interesting to discuss? I'm sure you are capable of giving more than just constant criticism.

I just want to know why the supposed 'melee RDMs' are the only ones that show a vested interest in starting discussions on the future of where this job is going. I know it's must be shocking to some, but I (and I'm sure Saevel as well) actually play RDM as a mage. I just so happen to be willing to melee when I can't kite anything because enfeebles are useless now. I adapted to what the game would allow and had no interest in continuing RDM in a direction I thought was foolish to begin with as it became less and less viable to do so.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

For people who get all uppity thinking people misunderstand you, you are way off the mark here. Go back and try reading. It wasn't at all anti-melee anything. It was all talk about whether it was the right call to get the multi-crit WS that we got. Or would we have been better off with the magical WS. I say how about the option that covers more ground rather than more menu clutter for types of damage we're already capable of doing?

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I did read. You said Cloudsplitter was trash. I said Cloudsplitter is trash on WAR/BST. I made a distinction and expressed my opinion. The peanut gallery came in and insulted the idea that I would want an elemental based WS and buffs that would make sense to me for how I see RDM. Saevel and I comment back and forth why we don't understand the hostility and you see it as Melee RDM banter, where as we see it as discussing RDM as a whole. If you don't see melee as an option for RDM then you won't understand it, but realize that I see melee as the most viable option RDM has right now. It is not the only option I would entertain. But SE would have to actually make alternatives attractive and they don't seem to have any interest in making a full time mage RDM attractive anymore.

I will continue to comment that a multi-hit Crit WS, while attractive and useful, is still an obvious blanket adjustment to the job. In a game of comparisons, RDM will always come up short to other jobs so long as it is still playing by the same rules. RDM has a B in swords, so by comparison, it is always going to be inferior to the other sword users because we lack the attack power to drive a physical WS. Without a BLU to compare to, CDC on RDM is an amazing thing, but when the majority of the player base tells you that you shouldn't even touch a sword because you are a mage, then what is the point of even having the WS? We weren't included on Vorpal Blade, why should this be any different? The lack of consistency is troubling.

RDM has strengths that we both agree upon. It has a large repertoire of mage gear and job traits that enhance our magic attack bonus. But it will never have the same spell execution as a BLM or even a SCH because we are stuck on Tier IV nukes. The obvious solution, for me, to get around that restriction is to channel that abundance of MAB into another vehicle for delivery. My best solution is an elemental WS that punches holes in mobs.

Our other strength is that we are one of the toughest jobs in the game and can take more punishment that just about anyone besides a PLD. We already have reduced melee damage that is made up by hate-less enspell damage. We have the ability to stick on a mob and not draw as much hate as most jobs. We have the tools to be up front, we just have to be welcome there because we have something to offer.

Why would I want a physical WS to be decent at, when I could have a broken elemental WS like Wildfire to flourish with?

Why would I want to be 2nd rate at everything when I could have the best elemental WSs in the game? The reason RDM doesn't have good elemental WS isn't because they couldn't use them, it's because they were never given them to use.

I have no intention of settling for mediocre on these boards because that might be the end of it for RDM. We should be good at something, but we aren't right now and that legitimately isn't our fault. We haven't gotten any specialized attention from the dev team and we are in really bad shape because of it. Blanket buffs like Almace/CDC and Tier ups are what got us here in the first place. Why should we want more of the same treatment? They haven't even fixed enfeebling and that is just the beginning of our problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

Well I should think not. I doubt I've taken any time to try to substantiate a claim for being canonized.

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You get points for vocabulary.

http://www.comics101.com/comics101//...f-approval.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManaKing

GG admits he doesn't play RDM anymore. I have no interest in listening to his or anyone's opinion on RDM unless they are actually willing to play it. If you can't suffer through another ambiguous RDM phase then I don't really have any interest in listening to an opinion from someone that has already given up and is crying/trolling from the sidelines instead of playing the job that you should still love to play.

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To be fair: RDM was my first job when I joined over 4+ years ago, and even when I joined when it was first released is the UK. I would class RDM as my main job, and favorite job at that. That being said, even I am doubting whether I'll be continuing playing it much longer. (I have most the gear I want, am capping my skills etc... but even I know that RDM adds nothing to the current endgame, and I'm only gimping my group by using it when I could use something that is better in the current content) Whether someone plays as the job has little relevance on their opinion of the job, in fact it could be argued as being more relevant as it means they find it no longer fun, or worthwhile to play as so something could potentially be wrong.

RDM was never the greatest job to begin with, the only thing it had over other jobs was the ability to extend it's MP pool via Refresh and Convert, that and Enfeebles actually worked on quite a few things.

Now these things are gone, RDM has shown it's age, and the fact it actually isn't all that.

Basically my point being: Just because someone has stopped playing as a job, they leveled and played as it enough to give their opinion on where they think it needs improvement. (This doesn't include when they insult other posters, this or people that only leveled it to SJ or lower)

I don't see why it matters if someone says they don't use Rdm anymore because of the state of it. I certainly couldn't fault them. Aside from voidwatch procs, messing around with old content and Relic+2 trials I can't fault anyone for not using Rdm. I still do because I like the job too much, but once again, only because I'm doing the above + magian trials, since I have no interest in leveling Blm. If I did I probably wouldn't use Rdm much/at all either.

It's funny NQ, because you're one of the few people I legitimately respect on these forums. It's pretty obvious to me that you still play RDM because you still have an air of realism about the job. The reason I don't listen to most of the people on these forums that will straight disagree with me is they have lost that and moved on to something else, usually elitist banter.

Dear Devs,

I'll chat to you on the XIV forums, tata! Keep up the good work, never mind ffXI =P

Your truely,
PSX

My bad for the rant the other day, or week or what have you. I generally work overnights so I wrote that all with no sleep.

However!

This just seems like a civil war that needs to be squashed. We can't seem to come up with a simple agreement as to what Red Mage actually needs, we've got one side that squabbles over mage, other that squabbles over melee, others that squabble over enhancing, enfeebling and what have you. We need to find a ground in which we can all stand on and agree. Otherwise, I don't see this job going anywhere. All I've read so far is "OH BUT MELEE NEEDS THIS" or "MAGIC SIDE NEEDS THIS." Choose a common ground and work with it. I understand completely that Red Mage does have potential to be this or this but the Devs are hindering us currently. Which is fine, some make it work others can't/don't. So let's choose a common ground.

Deep down, I know that the mages want to melee, but their inventory is properly filled with things for other jobs. So I can see that inventory can become an issue to the situation of fixing it. That or they don't pull enough in their linkshell to be able to grab people to allow them to net themselves an Almace. Or not treated importantly enough. lolrdm.

I understand that it's almost the same for the melee side of Red Mage. However there's more to the mix than just inventory. More than likely it's the feeling of being tossed in the back like some sort of unwanted or unneeded trash. "Why come as Red Mage when you can come as another job?" Or even being stuck as a Pink Mage. (Mind you that I PVP as Red Mage. Melee style.) Granted I know that, that's not the smartest way to play or what have you, but I play the job how I damn well want just like the rest of you. Cause, that's just how I roll'.

Point being; find a common ground and stomp the devs out with it. That's all there is to it. If we can't figure out as a community what we want. Then Red Mage shall forever be stuck in Limbo in because we sure as hell don't know what we want as a community.

Again, find a common ground.
Find a common ground.
I'm restating it because I'm sure some of you will end up stating "OH BUT I WANT MELEE" or "I WANT MAGIC." or what have you. Simple as that find a common ground that we can all agree upon that needs to be fixed or added.

I'm heading to bed, I've got work in several hours.
Night you crazy kids.

Oh we have common ground. All RDMs on this forum believe the job needs legit buffs badly. We just don't ever get any info from the devs so we fight like demons to pass the time until they show up and grace us with their presences. Seriously, Jobs broke, fix it. That's the common ground. Until they actually show any interest in doing anything for us, it is all any of us actually care about. Currently we have no time line and no specifics to quell all of this uncertainty.

The bickering will continue until the job is fixed.

Id wager SE ignores RDM because every time a discussion comes up it devolves into a dick waving contest about melee. Guess what our melee is pretty decent at the moment, it isn't the best but there are a bunch of jobs who aren't the best, and some of those jobs can only melee. So suck it up.

To the Devs:

You gotta do something here its been about 8 years since you gave us any real attention.