Disturbing a cleave PT on purpose to hurt a group, [again or not again ToS?]

lol, i like that one FrankReynolds =P

Anyway, you know... some people by reading this, might end to do this even more now, figuring out, "meh this if fair game". Honestly it was for sure not the intention of this thread, and i feel real real sorry for anyone in near future, if a jerk start doing this to your cleave group.

In all honest, SE should create new rule that CLEARLY say in it, is again the rule to CAMP a cleave pt on purpose to final blow all they gather mob on the last 5~10% for several minute. I mean seriously who are gonna loose from that rule? Accident aga and all mob die, meh that would not fall again the rule, shit happen, but stay for 45 min doing it, well yes that should be totally again the rule.

Give me one good reason that justify a guy to final blow all your mob @ last 5~10% for 2h long.

I feel for you, the guy sounds like a jerk. =\ I've had this happen to me a decent amount of times as well, and then get camped right ontop of. -.- Or a war just cleave your pull.

I was actually hoping a forum GM would have posted an answer to this, was looking through this topic. :o

GMs aren't allowed to answer account-related inquiries on the public forums. They aren't even allowed to tell you if they punish someone.

This isn't xbox.com

lol I got temp banned for saying "I think your trying to insult me, but there must be a language / intelligence barrier making it come out as silly instead."

Maybe they should put the forum mod that made that call in charge of monitoring griefing GM calls. He seems to have no patience for rude people.

If you cant say his name in this forum go to KI and post his name on a player warning.

that douche needs his FFXI license revoked~

Is requesting that a bunch of people who aren't happy with him send 1gil deliveries to his MH to block him for months considered harassment :)?

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

GMs aren't allowed to answer account-related inquiries on the public forums. They aren't even allowed to tell you if they punish someone.

This isn't xbox.com

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Don't think he mean about the guy itself, but about the issue in general.

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

If you cant say his name in this forum go to KI and post his name on a player warning.

that douche needs his FFXI license revoked~

Is requesting that a bunch of people who aren't happy with him send 1gil deliveries to his MH to block him for months considered harassment ?

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Well, giving his name will just cause more "inappropriate behavior" and wont fix at all the issue, in fact it might just insult more people and expand the problem instead of fixing anything, never forget this guy have friend, and they might see you as the jerk when you be doing anything to him.

Really as it stand killing a unclaimed mob is perfectly fine it is bad manners but until the guy cusses you out or anything a long those lines not much can do best option would be to just fight as many as you can keep claimed or go at a time he is not there since he can't be in the zone all the time.

That asking me to play at night time? Also please, always keep in mind he not "stealing a monster from my gather together", he is stealing the "final blow @ 5%~10%" and that time x20, or he breakga monster to make them despawn by using conflux. Not saying SE should make a rule that void people to get an unclaim monster, that be totally sad for everyone.

If someone comes up, and pulls this when a group is farming empies that would be obnoxious. However from reading this thread it seems this complaint is coming strictly from people making gil off noobs for cleave spots. While I wouldn't waste my own time going on a crusade to harass noobs cleaving mobs for gil so other noobs can level I still find it hilarious. Please continue whining it is good entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Zaknafein

If someone comes up, and pulls this when a group is farming empies that would be obnoxious. However from reading this thread it seems this complaint is coming strictly from people making gil off noobs for cleave spots. While I wouldn't waste my own time going on a crusade to harass noobs cleaving mobs for gil so other noobs can level I still find it hilarious. Please continue whining it is good entertainment.

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people can pay a guy 250k, and go leave their character afk for 8 hours. When they come back, they have enough cruor to make what 2 milion gil?

I'm not sure that qualifies as noob, maybe your just mathematically challenged.

In my case, I have more than one character. I'm not going to get anything out of leveling a job the second or third time that I didn't learn the first time. Cleaving the job not only saves me time, but gets me money in the process. Not cleaving would be a noob move.

Thanks for your share, but ya, keep in mind nothing void them to do same to your empy cleave party, and i am not sure that part amuse you that much.

call [GM] DAVE! he need to feed jorm

Unless you provide them with exact details(get the exact time the guy takes your pulls or the time for when he opens his mouth to damn himself in /say or /shout, /tells are private although pictures I guess might be acceptable but probably not due to the invention of photoshop and apps like it) Without exact details so that GMs can look at logs they will never be able to do anything based on hearsay. They cannot take your word for it. This is probably where much of the "GMs don't do anything about blank injustice!" comes from. People think that telling a GM "it happened a few minutes ago!" is good enough but it isn't. Without that near exact time frame of things happening they could be looking for a needle in a very large haystack. They cannot afford to do that.

So, if you want people to pay, you have to do a better job in helping GMs make it happen. Problem now is that that guy or surely someone he knows that he's bragged to will have probably seen this thread. If that isn't enough to know people are gunning for him via GMs to cut it out then keep that in game clock handy at all times when he's around and the instant he damns himself take note. I would go this route long before you start playing the payback game because I guarantee you if he doesn't have a problem doing what he's doing, he's got no problem calling a GM to try to get you out of the game, period.

I think to get a GM to address this, they will have to catch the guy in the act of casting breakga, then using a conflux to make the mobs depawn. Since he is not attempting to kill them, he has no defense of doing it to gain xp or to farm drops. Next time you are out there and he shows up, maybe you can convince a GM to watch for 10 minutes or so and witness what is happening. If he is doing nothing but despawning mobs, that seems like it would be covered in the part of the TOS dealing with interfering with another players xp.

@Ilax....


first of all he is doing nothing wrong, it does not matter what his motive is for wanting to kill the mobs, even if he tells you that he is doing it to mess with you, no one can prove that what he says is true, for all anyone knows anything he types could be complete nonsense, and secondly your are impeding his right to claim those mobs as well by attempting to monopolize, it does not matter what either of your motives are for doing so, in a GMs eyes neither action falls under what true harrassment, unless you can get him to toss some racial slurs at you, or threaten you etc.... then you have no case.

I was going to reply to the above poster, With a long topic regarding ToS, GMs not being Judge Dread, as such, The rules are subject to interpretation... The case being obvious harassment what with the guy Stalking him and purposefully targeting him based on his location.


But i gave up, all I could think about the entire time was "lol". Thats it. My mind is full of F**k at you good sir.

Edit: While the OP Did not have Claim over said mobs, and thusly, would not be able to present this as a "He took my mobs Q_Q" Case, The guy is clearly targeting him, and it can clearly be presented as a Harassment case.

I stopped reading @ "again or not again ToS"

Put in FF14's claiming system, problem solved. Ppl can help attack your monsters all they want, it won't bother ya anymore :D

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Put in FF14's claiming system, problem solved. Ppl can help attack your monsters all they want, it won't bother ya anymore :D

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No, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Genoxd

I stopped reading @ "again or not again ToS"

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Thanks for sharing. You enriched all our lives.

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Originally Posted by Runespider

If they are doing it purely to harass you then you can get them temp/perma banned for it, all you have to do it call the GM and wait till they talk to you and try goad him into doing it while they are there watching. I got quite a few in trouble for this when I used to SMN burn and it works realyl well, they just depop infront of you :)

If you are pulling every mob and they are trying to get some then it's just competition but as he is purely harassing it's pretty simple. The more he says in say/tell the better too, he will hang himself with his own words..so try get him to talk as much as you can.

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Aye, just FYI though make sure you don't do or say anything to incriminate yourself in the process. Things can easily be turned against you if your rude, cursing, or being a douche yourself (even if they are deserving). Ironically like trolls being very polite and for the most part ignoring them usually infuriates them more than anything, which makes them try harder to be a douche and makes them more likely to incriminate themselves.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

Put in FF14's claiming system, problem solved. Ppl can help attack your monsters all they want, it won't bother ya anymore :D

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It's still inherently flawed in this situation because it lets people monopolize all the aggroed mobs impeding progress for legit taggers, and gives opportunities to douches by allowing them to get hate on claimed targets and running off with the mob in question trying to unclaim it so they despawn or claim it for themselves.

Though, SE could always do something like implement a 5:00 debuff that has a high chance of inducing terror or intimidation for actions against monster targets when a player dies/flux's with monster hate. Call it a fear tactic, since your trying to run away or your scared of your opponents due to your weakened state, at the very least it would make players wait till they can take action against mobs again and put a kink into zombie tactics.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

he follow me, then wait i gather together enough monster (~20 monster) then breakga and use "conflux" to make them despawn.

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cure him? you get 1CE on each monster he breaked , (go from agro list to enmity list) if your close enough of mob they go after you.
other possibility (banable) cure spam him until mob wake and dmg him (if can't pk him you overenmity him and get monster attention)

edit : forgot about /blockaid. but on some retard like him odds are he doesnt have

Just go at a different time or a different zone like I said before he can't be on all the time and I doubt he spends all day waiting for you to get on and yes it sucks and all but as long as the rules protect what he does you have no choice to just avoid him all together or change servers.

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Again, i want to point out about KB12559, evidence in log or not, standing next to a cleave PT and AGA they monster every time they are 5~10% and that for several minute, is all again the Rule. I just cannot understand how action is not taken immediately.

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Unfortunately, rude and obnoxious behaviour is not a punishable offense. It gets even worse... if you in any way prevent that player from killing the 5~10% mobs you dealt almost all damage to, THEY can call a GM on you for malicious and disruptive gameplay and if a GM sees you pull even a single mob out of it's area, or call for help on even a single one, you are done for. It doesn't matter if there are plenty of mobs left in the area, if they cannot get exp and loot from YOUR pulled (but yellow) mobs, you are the culprit.

Ilax weren't you the guy who made the big post about going around and waiting for people to die and takeing there yellow mobs if they died and didn't wipe. I mean i do this all the time but maybe this person is someone you did this to and he is indeed takeing his revenge on you lol.

Eitherway man up suck it up, you don't own the mobs in the zone which are yellow if he wants to take your cleave mobs he can.

just "/say oops i'm sorry" if you intend to cleave other people's mobs and you're excused.
if you say something in ls or party about cleaving to be a jerk, then you're screwed

just make sure everything you type in game has some form of remorse in it and you can cleave/steal all the mobs you can handle

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Originally Posted by uptempo

Ilax weren't you the guy who made the big post about going around and waiting for people to die and takeing there yellow mobs if they died and didn't wipe.

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Yup i wont hide from it too, it was about NM thought. The fair game result into: if NM go unclaim, too bad for who was fighting it, steal is totally legit.

In this case is kinda different, i say kinda because of course you can limit your point of view to "is yellow, is fair", but fact is the guy wait on last 5~10% to final blow x20 monster, don't be fooled or confuse, this is not a monster steal, but a kill shot stolen.

I also hope you remember the conclusion of my other thread too, because i was explaining if is fair for him, the same can be fair for me, and i doubt i really need to explain what can result out of this, i let your imagination work a bit, and at this point, we can say goodbye to FC and CW.

Nothing prevent me by frustration of not be able to FC my way, to ruin everyone FC as well, i also think that create a good motive to do it, valid for you or not, the fact is that wont be again the ToS. So the real topic here is about how the rule should be modify in manner to prevent this, and not to see if we can do it because obviously with lack of GM decision about this issue, is clear that they have no clue how to deal with this, as someone said, GM are not hired to JUDGE, and i already said that before, but they are here to follow a specific guideline with the famous KB (Rules and Policies) and currently these are not enough specific to address the current problem.

Take my next problem and choice now, the first one is to try to do my own justice and break even more rule (mpk, cfh on mob, etc), my second choice is to go piss off more cleaver (as we said, this is not breaking rule) and create a huge amount of player unhappy. So choice #1 bring me in jail, choice #2 give me a chance to ruin my reputation but have tiny chance to fix the problem definitively.

Do this make sense? Think twice when you say this is not again ToS and shouldn't. But if the conclusion of the thread end in that direction, then be it and let the great FC/CW be something from the past.

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Originally Posted by Kaizersan

Just go at a different time or a different zone like I said before he can't be on all the time and I doubt he spends all day waiting for you to get on and yes it sucks and all but as long as the rules protect what he does you have no choice to just avoid him all together or change servers.

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What if there's only a certain window of time the OP has to play or conduct his cleaving service? Just stop doing cleaves? Only attempt a cleave if the harasser isn't online? Quit and find a new game?

What if the harasser follows him to whatever zone he goes to? What if the guy instead hunts down another cleave party to harass?

If this is indeed the person I'm thinking of, Ilax isn't the only person he does this to. Others have called GMs on him and of course he's still out there doing his thing. The guy seems to be a general nuisance to the community, but I guess as long as he doesn't use Flee hacks or go on racist tirades in Port Jeuno he can just do as he pleases.

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In this case is kinda different, i say kinda because of course you can limit your point of view to "is yellow, is fair", but fact is the guy wait on last 5~10% to final blow x20 monster, don't be fooled or confuse, this is not a monster steal, but a kill shot stolen.

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You're arguing semantics here at this point. The kill isn't really the issue so much as the fact the person is being malicious about it. Stating that their primary purpose is to interrupt your activity is the primary point, which is against ToS. Him killing the mobs is the same thing as you taking a yellow NM, there isn't claim to it thus it is "fair game."

The point you're trying to prove above all else is that he follows you, stays near you, waits for the chance, then purposely disrupts what you are doing. Doesn't matter why your are doing it, it only matters that he is hindering you from doing so and has stated as much. Simply claiming an unclaimed mob is only the tactic used, the intent behind the tactic is what is in question.

Scenario A: If group A is cleaving a specific group of mobs and then group B comes in the do the same thing which results in people running in and cleaving the opposite groups mobs the issue falls under the "fair claim" loophole.

Scenario B: Same scenario as above, but mix an NM into it such as tunga. Now Group B wants to disrupt Group A by purposely pulling an NM on top of them then dying so aggro on group A occurs. This is seen as malicious behavior.

Scenario C: Now, once again same scenario as first. The difference being there is no Group B, only Individual B. Individual B is in the same area as Group A with the intent to disrupt what Group A is doing. Individual B sends /tells or types something in /say belaying this intent to someone in Group A. Individual B uses the Loophole "Unclaimed = fair game" to disrupt Group A's activities by use of AOE kill shots, or AOE claim spells but instead of killing individual B runs to conflux to lose aggro and cause force despawn of the mobs. This continues to occur for hours and multiple times.

The reason this differs from 2 groups fighting over claims is the intent and motive behind each others actions:

Scenario A: Group B's motives are the same as Group A's, to farm large groups of enemies for xp/cruor/items. A GM has little to no reason to reprimand Group B for running in and stealing unclaimed mobs off Group A.

Scenario B: Both groups are there for the same reason, but this time Group B is breaking ToS by purposely MPKing group A in order to hinder them. A GM has fair reason to warn/jail/ban the individual in Group B or the entire group based on findings.

Scenario C: Group A has motive to farm xp/cruor/items, but Individual B has no similar motive. Individual B has come with the intent to not only impede Group A, but make it known to Group A that is their purpose for doing so. Individual B has said something in /say or /tell to relay their intent and motives to Group A. Through investigation a GM has fair reason to dictate that this is a form of harassment meant to impede, disrupt, and cause distress on Group A through their actions.

The crutch on Scenario C is not just the GM, but what information anyone from Group A can provide to the GM so they can properly investigate the accusations. If the GM cannot find valid proof showing the intent of Individual B through the chat logs then the GM is unable to fulfill conditions that needs to be met before they proceed to correct the problem. This breaks down to the old saying "If you didn't document it, it didn't happen" (anyone in record keeping will know this reference) thus if the GM takes action without locating proof first they are only placing themselves in a position where they will get reprimanded.

This is why it is important for the person making a GM call to not have anything showing that they baited the person they made the call on in. You must also keep track of all interactions between you and the person you made the call on.
Ask yourself these questions before making a call:

Q: Did the person send you a /tell or type something in /say? If so, what and when?

Why:This information is needed to make searching through chat logs easier as you give a window of time, which chat channels the GM has to look through, and what it is a GM needs in order to find the information.

Q: When did this start, and how long has it been going on?

Why: This allows the GM to once again look over a specific span of time to gauge how serious the nature of the issue is.

Q: Did you say anything in response, positive or negative, to the individual in question?

Why: This will go to show the GM if you further instigated the problem, or if the person was being malicious without justification showing their only intent was to disrupt a group/individual that fit a certain criteria. If you further instigated the issue there is a chance that the issue will, at best, result in only a written warning. At worst, the issue will never go further than the initial call due to information found.

Q: What, if anything, have you done to avoid this individual? Have you Blisted them, tried different areas, times, mobs? Did they follow you to different mobs/zones/times?

Why: This will further prove malicious intent behind the actions as the person is following you with no other motive aside from hindering your progress which is part of the definition of Harassment.


The more information you have available for a GM at the time of a call, the more likely you are to see results from the call. Another thing to keep in mind is the number of calls in the past you've place about this person including any dates/times and GM spoke to. I'm sure GMs are required to keep records of all calls they answer, but this would be something that they may or may not specifically give information on if asked directly depending on policies.

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Originally Posted by Kitkat

You're arguing semantics here at this point. The kill isn't really the issue so much as the fact the person is being malicious about it. Stating that their primary purpose is to interrupt your activity is the primary point, which is against ToS. Him killing the mobs is the same thing as you taking a yellow NM, there isn't claim to it thus it is "fair game."

The point you're trying to prove above all else is that he follows you, stays near you, waits for the chance, then purposely disrupts what you are doing. Doesn't matter why your are doing it, it only matters that he is hindering you from doing so and has stated as much. Simply claiming an unclaimed mob is only the tactic used, the intent behind the tactic is what is in question.

Scenario A: If group A is cleaving a specific group of mobs and then group B comes in the do the same thing which results in people running in and cleaving the opposite groups mobs the issue falls under the "fair claim" loophole.

Scenario B: Same scenario as above, but mix an NM into it such as tunga. Now Group B wants to disrupt Group A by purposely pulling an NM on top of them then dying so aggro on group A occurs. This is seen as malicious behavior.

Scenario C: Now, once again same scenario as first. The difference being there is no Group B, only Individual B. Individual B is in the same area as Group A with the intent to disrupt what Group A is doing. Individual B sends /tells or types something in /say belaying this intent to someone in Group A. Individual B uses the Loophole "Unclaimed = fair game" to disrupt Group A's activities by use of AOE kill shots, or AOE claim spells but instead of killing individual B runs to conflux to lose aggro and cause force despawn of the mobs. This continues to occur for hours and multiple times.

The reason this differs from 2 groups fighting over claims is the intent and motive behind each others actions:

Scenario A: Group B's motives are the same as Group A's, to farm large groups of enemies for xp/cruor/items. A GM has little to no reason to reprimand Group B for running in and stealing unclaimed mobs off Group A.

Scenario B: Both groups are there for the same reason, but this time Group B is breaking ToS by purposely MPKing group A in order to hinder them. A GM has fair reason to warn/jail/ban the individual in Group B or the entire group based on findings.

Scenario C: Group A has motive to farm xp/cruor/items, but Individual B has no similar motive. Individual B has come with the intent to not only impede Group A, but make it known to Group A that is their purpose for doing so. Individual B has said something in /say or /tell to relay their intent and motives to Group A. Through investigation a GM has fair reason to dictate that this is a form of harassment meant to impede, disrupt, and cause distress on Group A through their actions.

The crutch on Scenario C is not just the GM, but what information anyone from Group A can provide to the GM so they can properly investigate the accusations. If the GM cannot find valid proof showing the intent of Individual B through the chat logs then the GM is unable to fulfill conditions that needs to be met before they proceed to correct the problem. This breaks down to the old saying "If you didn't document it, it didn't happen" (anyone in record keeping will know this reference) thus if the GM takes action without locating proof first they are only placing themselves in a position where they will get reprimanded.

This is why it is important for the person making a GM call to not have anything showing that they baited the person they made the call on in. You must also keep track of all interactions between you and the person you made the call on.
Ask yourself these questions before making a call:

Q: Did the person send you a /tell or type something in /say? If so, what and when?

Why:This information is needed to make searching through chat logs easier as you give a window of time, which chat channels the GM has to look through, and what it is a GM needs in order to find the information.

Q: When did this start, and how long has it been going on?

Why: This allows the GM to once again look over a specific span of time to gauge how serious the nature of the issue is.

Q: Did you say anything in response, positive or negative, to the individual in question?

Why: This will go to show the GM if you further instigated the problem, or if the person was being malicious without justification showing their only intent was to disrupt a group/individual that fit a certain criteria. If you further instigated the issue there is a chance that the issue will, at best, result in only a written warning. At worst, the issue will never go further than the initial call due to information found.

Q: What, if anything, have you done to avoid this individual? Have you Blisted them, tried different areas, times, mobs? Did they follow you to different mobs/zones/times?

Why: This will further prove malicious intent behind the actions as the person is following you with no other motive aside from hindering your progress which is part of the definition of Harassment.


The more information you have available for a GM at the time of a call, the more likely you are to see results from the call. Another thing to keep in mind is the number of calls in the past you've place about this person including any dates/times and GM spoke to. I'm sure GMs are required to keep records of all calls they answer, but this would be something that they may or may not specifically give information on if asked directly depending on policies.

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Scenario D: a FC or CW group just zone in, see the camp is taken by group A, and to "free up the camp", they stand next to the cleave PT and wait all monster @ 5~10% and final blow them until group A is distress enough to leave the zone.

Scenario E: a FC or CW group just zone in, see the camp is taken by group A, and just outpull them in manner to be competitive and then they cleave they own pull.

I don't mind about competition (Scenario E), i don't mind about someone get angry and AoE all the monster once by frustration, but is all another story if group A start camping Group B in unfair manner to distress them.

Let see last Scenario:

Scenario D: Same as Scenario A at one exception, the offended group start camping the other group too, then you have 2 group standing there not pulling anymore since they know the pull be stoled @ last 5~10%. Result, 2 group got they game play screw.

I also don't buy the "nothing said in log, then nothing happen", specially when you talk to a GM when it still happen live, GM could just take a look of what going on. To me is as much stupid as a murder in RL getting investigate and they have all material to prove it on the crime scene, but that dude is wont be guilty because he never told anyone he going to commit a murder.

I can understand the reason of LOG, is to make sure GM are not taking action with no solid reason, and suspending someone base on what he saw is impossible for gm to justify, unless he start record it for the proof, which i am sure they not doing, but that the reason SE have senior GM and normal GM.

My group had this situation happen last night, another group decided to try killing chigoes we were pulling so we killed theirs after they pulled, they responded with a blm to hide nearby our pulls and nuke at 5-10%, so we job changed a few people and set a blu on each end and someone kept the blm highlighted and warned if was near a pull. In the end it was about strategy and determination to not give up that kept us our camp. Unfortunaltely not everybody gonna share or kill something else, how you respond to these situations is what prevents them from happenning, not GMs.^^

D and E are both technically the same as A, once again you're just bringing in semantics. It falls into the "Fair game" loophole as they have a justifiable reason/motive to do it, and according to ToS the right to. The reason you want to have something in chat-log is it shows motive behind the action. Without it there is the lack of evidence to show proof this is exactly why the individual is doing what they are doing. Without this proof it can be chalked up to the "Fair game" loophole since when asked the individual can say "I'm trying to get items in chest and since they are unclaimed I have the right to do this."

Sadly it is the same as an individual waiting for an NM by another group to go unclaimed, but the group hasn't wiped, and another individual takes said NM and finishes it off. They did no malicious act prior to cause claim to be lost, it just wasn't maintained by the group and thus killed by the other person/group that was there. This is why it is called the "Fair game" loophole.

You likening this to murder is inaccurate. You bring up points about evidence, but don't seem to understand that part of the evidence is motive and intent. If there is no motive/intent then it is difficult to prove beyond the "reasonable doubt" doctrine, hence why perceived murderers "get off the hook" in court. If the investigation team has evidence that shows the person of interest was at the crime scene and may have even handled the weapon it is still their job to place intent/motive behind why the murder occurred. Hence the saying "Innocent until proven guilty."

Alternatively, say you have someone who has been murdered and you get someone known as a "crazy" to admit to the murder via a Confession. Once again, the investigation team must establish intent/motive behind why the murder took place before accepting the confession and sentencing the person who confessed. While this seems like something that only happens in "TV drama" it is a real part of the investigation that must occur in order to gain a conviction.

This is why it is incredibly important that if anything is said in /tell or /say that the GM be told about it as this goes a long way in their investigation behind the incident since it establishes intent/motive of the individual and effectively blocks their use of the "fair game" loophole in the ToS.

I totally understood the "fair game" loophole since start, i also from OP, underlined the rule about it, but what i am talking here is not if it fall into the "fair game" loophole, but how the rule should be review.

Just to point at ala2 post, about chigoes, these group could offer competition by pulling/kill they own monster, but instead, they find out more ingenious to AGA other group when monster @ 5~10% HP, and i don't have to be there to hear the drama, i am sure it was quite interesting. A simple GM could have interrupt the first action, instead of that, both group ended to hurt each other.

I don't really care if KB Article: 55261 say is ok, that do not mean is "fair game" to me, and i don't have to go far to prove it, i can just go in any zone as WAR, BLM or BLU and start final blow everyone cleave and make any cleave impossible. Also keep in mind, if this rule is not modified, people know is "fair game" loophole and this will just happen more now, specially after reading this thread.

Also remember my answer about KB Article: 55261 -> Harassment should not be tolerated regardless of the circumstances. or if you prefer "inappropriate behavior" should not be tolerated. Also please make difference between a group AGA/FC/CW when monster are full HP and the one that final blow 20 monster @ last 5%. If you can't' make the difference between both, i just can't help then as hard as i tryed :(

Just to point out KB Article: 12649

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Originally Posted by KB Article: 12649

Behavior that disturbs other players' game experience but would not be defined as harassment is considered inappropriate behavior. GMs will take action against such actions. Although GMs do not handle these issues, if such behavior has exceeded a certain degree, a penalty may be given to the offender.

Online conduct has been established to help out the in-game community. Healthy growth of in game community might be disrupted if a GM plays the main role in such issues. Therefore, instead of actually getting involved in such issues, the GMs may think of the best way to have these issues resolved between players.

If you encounter any inappropriate behavior, please contact a GM in game. You can also contact the Square Enix Support Center by selecting "Additional Assistance" button located at the bottom of this Knowledge Base article.

Examples of Inappropriate Behavior:

-MPK attempts
This refers to actions in which the offender intentionally brings monsters to other players and makes them attack the victims. The GM may confiscate the offender's loot, or delete the monsters if confirmed. A penalty will also be issued to the offender and any players who aid the attempt.

-Monster holding
Holding a monster, especially Notorious Monsters, over an extended period or intentionally delaying the battle in order to adjust the next spawn window may result in GM involvement.

-Continuous (chat log) spamming
Spamming /tell, /random or skill increment logs to prevent other players' from chatting, regardless to intention, may result in GMs taking action against players if the action has disturbed others.

-Repeatedly delivering items to a certain player
Players who repeatedly send (unwanted) items to hinder the receiver from using the delivery system will be given either a warning or penalty.

-Gridlocking
This referes to actions such as blocking passages to mog houses in groups, or gathering near mog house entrances because the home point has been set there. These actions are not considered violations, but GMs may approach you and request you move away from the spot. If the player is not present, GMs will leave a message and move you to a nearby spot.

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could add in this example as well:

-Camping a group.
This referes to actions such as standing next to a group in manner to prevent other players from getting Exp/chest/cruor for several minute.

No matter how you see it, that directly "disturbs other players game experience". Be competitive and cleave other group monster from 100% is for sure way more appropriate, still rude of course, but not inappropriate behavior.

I had a simper problem and since I was aware that any mobs unclaimed was free for all, there was very little that could be done about it.

But since this guy waited till all the mobs was gathered up before FCing our bunch of mobs, even though there was a few around that he could have done his own.

After a while we decided to report this to a gm.
Not for FCing the mobs we garbed, but because of how he waited for us to collect them all before FCing.

Meaning that he was doing this on purpose.
After reporting this to the GM he seemed to stop doing that and just got his own little group together.

yea this happened alot back in the smn burn days and theres nothing the gm's will do about white mobs. and it was mostly the ppl who kept the tunnel all day and charged 200k+ theyd aga you til you gave up and left so they could have the area back.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

I do the same thing in real life. When I'm at the market, I just grab stuff out of other people's shopping carts. Why should I have to ask permission? I mean, I'm sure I could find the item on my own. Hell, the person might even be willing to give me his, or show me where to find one, but I just really like the idea of being a jerk to random strangers. Besides, it's not against the law. they haven't even paid for the stuff yet, so there is nothing they can do. It makes shopping so much more interesting.

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That was pretty good analogy Frank, but you forget there's technically only one item in the other person's cart (the claimed mob) and the rest of the items are just next to the Grocery cart, not in it.

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

That was pretty good analogy Frank, but you forget there's technically only one item in the other person's cart (the claimed mob) and the rest of the items are just next to the Grocery cart, not in it.

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No, they're all in the person's cart. If they weren't, there would be no difference to any other item in the store, but there is in the game, namely the mob aggroing the person. The one claimed mob is the one item still in the person's hands. While not impossible to take it away from them, you'd have to apply questionable legal moves, like forcibly remove it from their posession (they still want it and there's a struggle about claiming this one item, or in game context, enmity steal, which is a bannable offense). Everything else is fair game, but still a dick move. His analogy was spot on.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

No, they're all in the person's cart. If they weren't, there would be no difference to any other item in the store, but there is in the game, namely the mob aggroing the person. The one claimed mob is the one item still in the person's hands. While not impossible to take it away from them, you'd have to apply questionable legal moves, like forcibly remove it from their posession (they still want it and there's a struggle about claiming this one item, or in game context, enmity steal, which is a bannable offense). Everything else is fair game, but still a dick move. His analogy was spot on.

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Ok, I can see it your way. Still doesn 't make it right.