Sweet can you help me figure out how to pay then? I have followed all the instructions ect but can't pay. I tried contacting customer service and got a run around. Can you do two things for me? point me to step by step detailed instructions that work on what to do after the transfer? Can you point me to troubleshooting info if I'm having problems? Thank YouQuote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Thank You SE and Good-bye
Printable View
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08-13-2011, 10:22 PMNeonii
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08-13-2011, 10:32 PMAverI'm assuming by the obvious sarcasm (that will whoosh by other's heads, trust me) that you're in one of those countries SE deems unworthy to pay them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neonii
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08-13-2011, 10:34 PMKorpgI agree with you, but people like to complain about something, be it a new, one-time hassle for most, or having to buy crysta that they are afraid of overpaying, and all extra crysta "can't be used in the next month," or just complaining for complaining sake (what most people in that 100 page complaint thread is doing anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznov831
We all know that nobody is going to quit over this, they say they will, but they won't. Getting an international prepaid credit card for free is hard yo! -
08-13-2011, 10:48 PMNeoniiIts not sarcasm its frustration I transferred the accounts cant log on it says content ID's are cancelled. When I follow the instructions and try to pay one of two things happen. Either it won't go through or the maint screen comes up every time. I log on a different site and come back, the server is back up. Tried customer service got a run around. I literally cant pay. I have not played since last month. They need to post detailed step by step instructions that work. They also need to post troubleshooting in case customers are having problems. I don't understand why this process is not more customer friendly. Also, being unable to get help with my issue is frustrating as all get out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aver
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08-14-2011, 12:06 AMOctaviane"We" meaning you. Let's see, you are already whining because you don't know when the update will be or what it will include because the timing is going to infringe on you going back to work (more likely school). That makes you a hypocrite. When you have something useful to contribute to a conversation that is not filled with tripe, feel free to come back. In the mean time G**Out of here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
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08-14-2011, 12:19 AMKorpgA) A query is not the same as "whining." Unless you want to assume that, then everyone asking to change the payment method is whining also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octaviane
B) I'm asking for more information, Dev1021 did not give out any more information. Aren't you asking for the same thing? Oh wait, no you aren't because you are given all the information you need to transfer your accounts over. You are complaining because you don't want to change and are throwing a hissy fit over it.
C) My posts have more to contribute than what you have been posting anyway. I'm pointing out about people's constant need to complain about something (if it isn't this, it would be that, and if it isn't that, it would be this).
Personally, I don't think that you like me knowing more about you, me and most everyone else than what your idea of who you are.
See you next month though. -
08-14-2011, 03:04 AMReznov831Quote:
Originally Posted by Octaviane
WoW!!! Formus always end in fights lol -
08-14-2011, 03:05 AMReznov831I agree, this game is pretty addicting and people will change to the new system rather than quit (with the exception of the few that just feel this really is the final straw and are bored with the game anyways). So like you said we always need something to complain about, ha!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
We're complaining about the complainers lol, it's priceless. -
08-14-2011, 04:13 AMKitkat
I have multiple accounts on the game (why hide it, I'd say a rough 20% does these days) and transferring around was a bit of a hassle. Granted the hidden fees aren't really an issue with click and buy so much as their overall reputation. Then again I can count a few times where paypal was attacked or other methods that SE could look into would have negative impact to them or their customer.
This isn't really a killer for me so much as some of the changes to the game are or the fact close friends of mine are leaving over the payment switch over. I don't know about some people, but the vast majority of the reason I play any MMO is for the people I meet or have met in the game as time passes on. The content has had some interesting perks, but if suddenly one day some of my closest friends in XI stated they were leaving that would be the end for me. I've already taken a week or two break from XI over listening to those I know stating they possibly won't go more than a month into the new payment system. Plain and simple, it is depressing (oh look, food for the trolls). In the end I'm not leaving over the system myself, just mainly over the effect the system is having with some of my closer friends who would rather not deal with the new changes, don't trust some of the other options, or detest the fact SE crysta requires overpaying to keep the account going. ~shrugs~ Se's game though, let them do whatever they want. I don't see any reason to get a chip on my shoulder when the community is what has kept me so long, not the game. -
08-14-2011, 04:45 AMOctavianeWhy can't you be a patient little boy and wait to see what the changes will be? And yes, you specifically stated you would be "inconvenienced" when they were made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
No you won't see me next month because I put my money where my mouth is troll. -
08-14-2011, 04:51 AMOctaviane
I would like to say that the OP here did a great job of posting his goodbye. Nicely done and I wish you all the best. :)
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08-14-2011, 04:56 AMRAISTJoin Date:Jul 2011Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznov831
Posts:5
Guess you haven't seen just what has been going on with the change.
SE has arbitrarily decided to only save CC information and process payments in-house for the JP region players--and claimed it was for increasing security. This is totally bogus--the servers are no less secure for NA users then they are for the JP users--that is a technology issue, not a regional one.
Everyone else is being shuffled off to a third party system of payment. In some cases--this has opened others up to higher security risk (C&B has asked some to EMAIL copies of confidential documents commonly used for identity theft just to verify accounts so they can pay, and some are directly paying per purchase--meaning they enter their CC info everytime they buy crysta, and some may be on a system that is not fully secured as it is open to malware infections, keyloggers, etc.). In some cases, some have not been able to use C&B because they don't offer the service in their region. For some, their banks reject C&B transactions. In some areas--that is a common policy, and to get around it you have to hunt for a CC issuer that will work and apply for another credit card. In short, it is just too much a hassle in some areas to set up. And Crysta? SE is not offereing it to some regions because of potential legal issues (Virtual Property rights and such). This ultimately has resulted in some players not having ANY option to pay SE now. For some, C&B is not offered, and Crysta is not offered--but they've been using their CC to pay through SE for years with no problem.
Also, there is the issue of added cost. Some are having to pay a worse penalty due to a change in the currency being used. C&B is billing in a different currency, so some are getting hit by a worse exchange rate (up to 43% more in some cases), or they are being charged fees by their financial institutions. Yes, that is not a fee from C&B--but it is incurred BECAUSE they are being FORCED to use C&B if they want to set up automatic payments with their CC. That is a principle issue--because you are forcing specifically non-JP players to do this, you are causing many to pay more for the service.
Then there is the whole crysta debate: $12.95USD every 30 days, can only buy crysta in multiples of $5USD--that takes 100 billing cycles for $1295USD billable fees to match evenly with the crysta you pre-purchase to cover the account. So, a single character account is essentially paying more than contractually obligated to pay--for over 8 years. Again...it may seem trivial to quibble over a few dollars here and there--it is the PRINCIPLE of the matter. ONLY NON-JP PLAYERS ARE BEING FORCED TO PAY MORE TO PLAY. If you are in JP, you can use your CC as always, or you can use the alternatives like webmoney and other Crysta acquisition methods (which have been shown to get around the over-buying issue).
Again--it all boils down to the simple fact they have singled out the same payment method to just the JP region in ADDITION to extending their options (Crysta), and forced others into potentially more unstable/costly methods of payment--requiring more effort for many to simply pay them, and injecting more points of failure into the system. If a billing error comes up, who do the turn to now? SE? C&B/PayPal/PlaySpan? The CC processor for that third party? The bank? Before, it was just SE, their CC processor, or your bank. This is a potential Customer Service nightmare in the making. We've already seen the decline in QOS because of the communication barriers put up now. And the sh!t hasn't even hit the fan yet--when everyone who is currently not up to speed with what all this entails suddenly gets bumped after the full changeover, it may get prettty ugly.
All of this drama can be dealt with very simply. Replicate the JP CC payment scripts from thier web pages to the NA/EU region pages, altering the script to use the CC processors SE already has agreements with for processing the EU/NA cards.
That's another fact some seem to forget. SE has NOT dropped their NA/EU CC processors. They are still using them for their online merchandise store. That's right.....they still have contracts with them, which means they stiill have to pay them their monthly fees. So all they are doing is not paying them their fee per transaction (on average for the market, @60 cents per$12.95, btw) and instead are paying a different fee to another group like C&B or PlaySpan.
Again... all they need to do to make this go away is (in addition to running the new options) implement the same payment option they've used for years--ESSENTIALLY DO LIKE THEY'VE DONE FOR ONLY THE JP REGION. -
08-14-2011, 04:59 AMKorpgI asked for more information, nothing wrong with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Octaviane
But if you were really going to quit over this, you would have quit before you got billed in August....instead, you stay here complaining that you are going to "quit" when you had the perfect chance to "put your money where your mouth is."
The most "vocal" quitters have already, you know, quit. You didn't quit, because you are still on this forum.
So, see you next month. I know, you know, we all know you and a bunch of other complainers are not going to quit. You would have done so already. -
08-14-2011, 05:06 AMRAIST
No... many are not quitting yet because they are still on the billing system that is still working for them. Quitting while an acceptable method of payment is still in effect does nothing to emphasize the point at the heart of the matter.
They are going to let it expire when that acceptable system gets completely cut off--that way SE has a definite point in time to reference. If/when they decide to look back on just WTF happened to FFXI subs, they will have a clearly defined event--a sudden spike in cancellations that coincides with when it became mandatory to switch over. -
08-14-2011, 05:20 AMKorpg
Many people do not have a problem with a minor inconvenience. Many have already switched over. Only people who truly have a problem are those who are in a country that Click and Buy doesn't support and don't have an international credit card.
But it is not SE's fault that those people don't do any little research or an online query.
Your problem, RAIST, seems to be from overcomplaining. How many different things do you dislike about this new system? -
08-14-2011, 05:26 AMPantheraInteresting point, but if they were all that concerned with their own liability, why keep CC info of their JP customers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barabas
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08-14-2011, 05:32 AMKorpgBecause they can pay in exact currency (yen) instead of having to pay in a foreign currency (anything else).Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
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08-14-2011, 05:36 AMoliveiraTo not risk losing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthera
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08-14-2011, 06:06 AMRAISTMy main complaint has always been over the JP-only CC option discrimination--if you've actually been reading my posts, you should know that. That wall of text was a recap of the issues that have been presented in the threads--figured it was better to recap all of them in one post for that seemingly uninformed poster, rather than trying to redirect him/her to a mass of threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
No matter how anyone tries to spin this situation, it always comes back to some very simple facts:
Thay have taken away an option that for many was simple and reliable, it could be have been fairly easy to implement, and extended it for just one region, and have mistakenly tried to say the choice was done to improve security. They have the technology, they have the knowhow--essentially, they have the means to do it, but are simply choosing not to do it. -
08-14-2011, 06:14 AMRAISTThat has nothing to do with security---that is a matter of cost management.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
A server is open to the same threat of attack regardless of where it is physically located. The level of security is the same regardless of whose information is saved on it--it can be attacked just as easily from someone inside JP as any other region. Someone living in Japan has their information open to the same threats as someone living in Europe. The ONLY way it could be bound to a security issue is because it would cost more to implement stronger security to meet banking regulations enforced in another region. That makes it a COST issue, NOT a SECURITY issue--as in, they didn't want to pay for updated VPN cards for their firewalls or something. -
08-14-2011, 06:14 AMKorpgWell, I have read your posts, you had several complaints. JP-only payment, having to have extra crysta each month, having to pay to a third party instead of direct payment, having to use Click and Buy instead of Paypal (Paypal has 6 times more "fraud" than Click and Buy, just in case you didn't know, even though neither company actually commits the fraud, but you wouldn't want to see that, would you?), all of that just to name a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAIST
Yes, they have taken away a simple method and converted it into a simple method. For security reasons too. I guess you have forgotten all of those billing issues they have been having for the past year or so, I guess we have finally found out why people were having those billing issues. Also, remember PSN? I guess you forgotten that also. But whatever. Just keep raising your pitchforks at SE, nothing is going to change now. -
08-14-2011, 06:21 AMKorpgSo, SE can't try to save a little money to keep this game going now? They have to continue using the same expensive method to satisfy a select complainers now, is that what you are saying?Quote:
Originally Posted by RAIST
But not only have they found a solution that saves them a little money, but increased security at the same time. Is that really all that bad, bad enough to complain for weeks on end because you aren't getting your way? -
08-14-2011, 06:51 AMRAISTI debate issues as they appear in the thread... but if you had been paying attention, I continually come back to the issue of them taking away the directpay CC option. Guess you are just glossing over posts and selectively reading or something.. who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
If something appears to be deceptive, people will question it. You may see some of the words used to describe them as a bit strong, but it is a common mistake many make. Many use words like "fraud" without knowing truly what it implies. So... let's look at the Webster's definition of "Fraud":
"things that make you go..... hmmmmm...."Quote:
a : deceit, trickery; specifically : intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right b : an act of deceiving or misrepresenting : trick
You've completely missed an important fact (that I brought up a few posts ago): They still are paying to maintain the same agreements with the EU/NA based CC processors to use them at their online merchandise site. For example, all they are doing is shuffling the cost per transaction from a NA group to a UK group. That fee is considerably less then $1 per transaction: common fees run .21-.35 a pop, plus 2%-3%--depending on the discount rates. Trust me, with the level of activity they were running, they were getting a discounted rate to run subscriptions through (which they will now loose with those contracts by not running subs through them.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
This decision hasn't increased their security at all. All it may have done is shuffled their LIABILITY off to a third party. They still have the same security issues for their JP players. Again...security in this scope is a technology issue--unless they went out and upgraded hardware/software to raise their security, nothing has changed. If they raised that security level for the JP players--it would have also applied to the NA/EU players. 3-DES, SHA-1,. SHA-2, Keyed hashes---all those encryption standards are universal...they don't care where the data originates, the function is the same regardless of the start or end-point and what they encapsulate--they function the same regardless.
Again...PSN was lacking in security and they found out just how liable they were oafter they got hacked. Moving the data from one server to another does nothing to improve your security. You can still get hacked just as easily as before--you just are liable to fewer people if that server gets hacked and that data is moved elsewhere, but ethen...they can just hack the other server and you are again just as liable as before. All they are doing by moving it to C&B or PayPal is reducing their LIABILITY in the event they get hacked, not their SECURITY. It does nothing to prevent them from getting attacked in the first place.
Billing issues can also abound just as easily with C&B as they can with SE. No system is perfect by any means. We always put a payment in pending status until we get confirmation either through the clearing house or by manually entering the authent. codee and clearing the pending flag through. It might even be a bigger issue as data must flow to off-site handlers more than ever now. SE can flag you for needing to be billed, but for various reasons it may not get confirmation from other parties that the bill has been paid. Depending on how they are programatically handling the exceptions, you can still just as easily get double-billed in error from any company, and have to call them on it to get it corrected. You can also have customers who have a perfect record with a billing partner. Myself, I never had any problems with the Visa I've used since 2005, and it has been bought out and re-issued 4 or 5 times since then. I'd update the info, and never had any problems with it.
Again, it's not a question of people getting their way--it's about the inequallity. SE has forever proclaimed to be all concerned about balancing things across all regions and platforms, and then they pull a boneheaded stunt like this that dramatically tips the scale and counters those previous assertions. Which again brings me to the closing point of a previous post:
Quote:
Thay have taken away an option that for many was simple and reliable, it could be have been fairly easy to implement, and extended it for just one region, and have mistakenly tried to say the choice was done to improve security. They have the technology, they have the knowhow--essentially, they have the means to do it, but are simply choosing not to do it.
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08-14-2011, 07:15 AMKorpg
You know what RAIST, you are going to continue with your tinfoil hat conspiracies forever, aren't you?
I mean, do you really think that this whole new system is just a fraud waiting to happen, that SE and Click and Buy both came up with just to take your money away from you? -
08-14-2011, 07:28 AMRAISThuh... just where did you come up with that? YOU are the one spouting conspiracy. I'm talking facts here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
Edit:
And I never said it was a "whole new system is just a fraud waiting to happen". Go back and read it again. I said no billing system is perfect....depending how they are programatically handling exceptions, any one can be open to double billing. If you aren't set up to handle delayed/stalled/dropped communications to an off-site service, or aren't handled to prevent the impatient double-submit customer, and various other potential exceptions--you can have billing errors. -
08-14-2011, 08:48 AMRevanchist
Korpg, while I admit you do have some valid points, you are completely overlooking the fact that A: Crysta isn't legally available/accepted as viable payment options in some countries and B: the gamer cards (for use via PlaySpan) aren't available in every country either.
So for gamers in those countries, come end of August, will be cut off from FFXI. Is it too much to ask for SE to extend the same courtesy they've given to their JP playerbase to the rest of the world? I'm not saying have Direct payment as the main method of payment, but like the JP's, have it alongside the Crysta/gamer card payment options.
Also, your condescending comments towards others here is getting old real quick. Saying that you'll 'see them in September' etc, is not just condescending, but oblivious to the position some gamers are in due to this situation SE is forcing upon us as a whole.
Now while some posters may be letting their emotions get the better of them in their posts, and I admit I was at first, what does it matter to you? You already have your payment sorted out, so why bother to troll the forum, being rude and condescending to others? Serves no purpose, except just to fan the flames against some who may have legitimate problems with this payment option.
I hate to say that it seems (to me at least) that you seem to enjoy baiting and attacking others for voicing their opinions/views of this situation. Granted yes, you do have every right to do so... but as it's not directly affecting you, why are you wasting your time doing so?
Is it so hard to understand that while some have no problems with this enforced payment option, there are a number who DO have problems with it? Aren't they allowed to voice some criticism against this? -
08-14-2011, 08:48 AMWhiskey
I'll never understand why SE does things like this that break the mold after 10 years of consistency (and in such negative ways). It's like they enjoy upsetting players, making things difficult, and most of all causing players to quit.
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08-14-2011, 12:10 PMKorpgAgain, international debt card. It doesn't matter which country you are in, having one of those ensures continuing to play this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Revanchist
How do I know this, you ask? Because, it all depends on the bank location, not where you actually live. If the bank of an international bank card is in the UK, or US, or JP, then you don't have to worry about being the .001% of the people who live in both crysta-banned and CNP-banned countries. Yes, it is another hurdle you have to jump thru, but if you are serious about playing this game, it is a small hurdle you have to jump thru once.
You need a website for the international bank card? Here is a website I recommend, although you might have to contact them personally depending on location. Either way, problem solved. -
08-14-2011, 12:17 PMAlhanelemWhat do you mean "got a run around?" They don't "runaround" people. tell me what you said and what response you got, then I can judge for myself.Quote:
I have followed all the instructions ect but can't pay. I tried contacting customer service and got a run around.
We can't help you if you don't specifically say why you can't pay and what you've tried to do, your communications with support including exactly what you said and what they said.
What payment are you attempting to use? What's the error you get? We need information.It's avialable in japan because they're a japanese company and it ocsts them less and everoyne uses 3D secure. it costs them more to accept international payments directly. It's not a simple matter of courtesy. -
08-14-2011, 12:52 PMRAIST
prepaid debit cards are still kinda the same method as pre-charging a crysta account--ie, it's not fully automated, also, there is still this:
*note, that is THEIR underlining, not mine.Quote:
Global - Offered by non-U.S. banks, the International Debit Cards can be issued to residents of most countries in the world.
You also need to look closely at the terms of use for them too. Most all US based prepaid cards have a monthly fee--many are really cheap $3 or less, but it is still a fee you incur for using them. Interesting that that site doesn't provide a link to any of those details that you can simply pull up. Closest I could get was from a DEC 2010 PDF where they mention:
http://globalebanking.com/Intl_Payment_Architecture.pdf
It too may be next to nothing for a monthly fee, or it may only have fees incurred when using an ATM or something--hard to say without the details readily available on that site, so it's hard to properly evaluate them. You have to contact them directly to get the details:Quote:
• Reasonable usage & maintenance fees
In other words...results may vary based on where you live--which is essentially the problem we are now facing with SE's new payment scheme.Quote:
Since we have several different International Prepaid Debit Card programs, please contact us to discuss your requirements (geographical regions, customer types, applications, etc.) We can then provide you more exact details of a card program that would be of the best fit to you.
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08-14-2011, 01:24 PMAlhanelemAll the ones I've seen only have a fee when you buy them, and a fee when they have a balance and have been inactive for a period of time. None of the ones I've seen have a monthly fee.Quote:
Most all US based prepaid cards have a monthly fee
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08-14-2011, 02:25 PMRAIST
eh.. it varies from company to company, and region to region...that's why you really need to look into their TOS when you are shopping around. Fortunately, you avoid a lot of fees if you do stuff with them online, but when you do things through a store or ATM, it gets kinda intimidating with the US based cards:
http://www.creditcards.com/prepaid.php
Fee schedule from one of the Wal-Mart cards through Green Dot:
Quote:
Standard Fees
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Reload Personalized Card at Walmart (No Check Cashing) $3.00
Family Walmart MoneyCard $3.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reload Card at Green Dot Location (other than Walmart store) Varies by Retailer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional Personalized Card Fee
- Standard Walmart MoneyCard $3.00
- Student Edition Walmart MoneyCard $0.00
- Family Walmart MoneyCard $0.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ATM Cash Transaction - Domestic $2.00
- ATM Cash Transaction - International $2.00
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ATM Balance Inquiry $1.00
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Monthly Maintenance Fee $3.00
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Teller Cash Transaction $2.00
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Lost/Stolen Replacement Personalized Card $3.00
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Rush Delivery of Personalized Card $20.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Foreign Transactions (see section 18) 2%
Quote:
If you load or reload at least $1,000 to your Walmart MoneyCard during a calendar month (not including a transfer from your Temporary Card to your Personalized Card), we will waive the Monthly Maintenance Fee for your Walmart MoneyCard the next calendar month.
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08-15-2011, 01:51 AMDelsus
@OP link me to 3 websites by government watchdogs saying they have investigated and taken action against clickandbuy, if they were out to cause problems they will have been prosicuted time and time again. All I have found are people on forums that they have been scammed, there is no evidence that these people have just not read the terms of using clickandbuy, or replying to emails from an email address similar to clickandbuy, these are the biggest forms of complaints against companies, and they can look like a company has taken money without your permission.
As I say link me to 3 websites about an official inquiry, news or a government page doesnt matter.
http://www.jimkarpen.com/paypalfraud1.html
Oh look I found somone that had money taken from his paypal omg paypal are fraudsters too.
No matter what you look at you always have people who have thier accounts hacked and get thier accounts wiped, it doesnt matter if its paypal, clickandbuy or any company that holds financial details I could set an email account up which could be accounts@paypal.co.ca and get a program to scan ebay.ca for any sellers that use paypal and have an email on thier profile, and send an email saying they need to log into a website that resembles paypal, I would then have thier login info and could wipe thier accounts clean. People would think they have done nothing wrong and blame paypal for taking thier money, this can be done with any company.
tl;dr its easy to get login info off somone, unless I am linked to 3 websites that say clickandbuy have been prosicuted for taking money without consent you have no proof that they do it. If it was as bad as forums make out this information will be available. -
08-15-2011, 01:57 AMKorpg
@RAIST, you don't have to get the card from the same country you reside. That is the whole point of getting an international card outside your country. But then again, only .001% of players would need to take this route, and I highly doubt you are one of them.
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08-15-2011, 03:01 AMHashmalum
I, too, am leaving as soon as Square-Enix refuses to continue billing my debit card. I simply refuse to go through a shady, paranoid middleman with bad customer service that will result in me being charged international banking fees. I also refuse to make Square-Enix an interest-free loan in the form of purchases of company scrip, part of which I will lose next time I stop playing.
It's unfortunate, as the dev team was starting to improve and become more player-friendly. But the business side of Square-Enix has only gotten worse with time. Verified by Visa was bad enough--besides being inconvenient and unavailable to many customers, it was a stealth assault on consumer rights*. I only played as long as I could evade VbV requirements. But this billing system change-over is just too much. I'm being asked to pay more money and go to more trouble to play a game at the same time that it is excruciatingly obvious that SE is investing less in the game to begin with--endlessly recycled zones, snail's pace of WotG roll-out, etc.--and all under a blatantly false premise of "improving security". I'm not going to take it. Give me a billing option that doesn't require purchases of funny money, isn't handled through an international vendor or one of ill repute, and doesn't require me to change bank or use VbV and I'll stick around (or come back). Otherwise, I'm gone.
*If you use a normal card and the information is stolen, you can always dispute the charges and get your money back. If you use VbV, it is assumed (incorrectly!) that the information cannot be stolen and you are responsible for any and all charges no matter what. If you use VbV and one of the merchants you use is hacked, or you are hacked, then you can potentially have thousands of dollars stolen from you with no way of even knowing what happened or of obtaining legal recourse. This is simply unacceptable. -
08-15-2011, 05:00 AMRAISTDidn't say you had to get it from the country you reside in. Did you even read the previous posts--especially the one about the company you linked? I thought I made it very clear that you can't readily get at the details of the cards at that site you linked--they are intentionally vague about it because (by their very own admission) it varies according to where you live.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
I gave the US reference to show the variety of just what happens within ONE specific region. In case you didn't even bother to pull up that review of the US vendors, the cards on that list can have monthly fees as high as $9.95--some of which can be waived if you meet certain conditions (ie: $1000 transferred to the account for one card, and next month's fee is waived). There was only ONE card in that entire round-up (on page 3) that didn't list a potential monthly fee--$4.95 activation, get charged fees if you use a PIN/Signature to buy things (ie: use in a store) and other various fees (basically, if you only use it for online stuff, charge it by direct deposit, etc., you won't get bombarded with fees unless there is a currency exchange, which gets handled by Visa and has a 2.95% fee).
The POINT was you need to do the legwork and really go over the agreement before you sign up for any prepaid (or even a regular credit card for that matter) or you might wind up getting hit by fees you aren't expecting. That is what we are seeing from a lot of people who signed up with C&B--they weren't fully aware of what will be going on when they use the service, and are getting hit by additional costs to use them. That US review is just a convenient example to show just how much the terms can vary, as that information was readily available--unlike that site you linked where you have to contact them directly to get the terms instead of simply clicking a link to pull it up online.
And again...either way, it is still a manual process just like buying Crysta. You still have to make sure the money is sitting there in advance before the billing takes place. Which, kinda defeats one of the primary reasons behind signing up with a Credit Card in the first place--to automate the process. All of this would be virtually unnecessary for the existing client base as of July/2011 if they would just extend the direct bill with a 3DS card option through SE just like they have continued to do for just the JP region. -
08-15-2011, 06:24 AMKorpg
RAIST, why are you comparing US prepaid cards when I'm talking about INTERNATIONAL prepaid cards?
Yeah, most of them will have a fee, generally a one-time charge to buy the card, but other than that, it is still a way to pay for this game. It is as simple as that, but you have to try to complicate things by putting your tinfoil hat on and ramble on about SE and them trying to take away this game from all non-JP players (as stated by your last paragraph above).
But you would just accuse me of not reading. I'm sorry if I ignore the posts that you put on your tinted glasses on just so you can see only one shade of color, instead of immersing yourself into possibilities. You like to shoot down anything that can be a solution, because you want to go back to the old system. Well, tough nuts, it isn't going back, and staying in the past will make you be left behind (pun intended). -
08-15-2011, 07:59 AMRAISTAs I stated in those posts that you seem to not have read fully---the company you referenced provided no means to pull up the credit card agreement. You have to contact them seperately to get that information--not exactly a convenient way to shop for a payment solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korpg
The US site I referenced DOES give you a quick and easy way to look at the terms. It was done to illustrate the variances that can exist for prepaid cards within the same region.
I never stated SE is "trying to take away this game from all non-JP players "--that's your conspiracy there. The fact is though, that this move IS preventing SOME players from being able to pay (can't use C&B, can't use Crysta, can't pay directly through SE anymore...so no way to play). Regardless of why it was done--the result is that this move may very well force some users out of the game because they are left with no way to pay under their exisitng circumstances, which IS easily remedied by simple extending the directpay option to all regions and not just the JP region--as it would restore their CURRENT payment method.Quote:
Yeah, most of them will have a fee, generally a one-time charge to buy the card, but other than that, it is still a way to pay for this game. It is as simple as that, but you have to try to complicate things by putting your tinfoil hat on and ramble on about SE and them trying to take away this game from all non-JP players (as stated by your last paragraph above).
Post a link to a site that allows us to view the the terms of use for some international cards so people can actually see what they are getting into if they opt to go that route so people can make an informed decision. All I'm saying, is do the research first before siging up.
Just because in your particular case it may not be costing you any fees, that may not hold true for everyone, based on A.) where they live (as evidenced by the disclaimer on their own site) and B.) the exact way they may have to use it may differ from you and it may trip up fees for them. Without the FACTS (as in being able to see the agreement), you can't declare absolutely how that line of cards will work for others--much less if the particular card you have is even available to these players having issues getting a card to work (again, as evidenced by their own disclaimer, some cards may not be available in some regions).
And what of the issue of having to keep the card pre-loaded to pay your account--it's not automated at all. It's just like using Crysta--have to make sure the currency is there for each cycle, unlike using a real credit card that will process automatically each month. Based on various factors (again, unkown without seeing an actual agreement), keeping that card active and loaded MIGHT cause fees for other users because of where they live. You seem to be ignoring this fact that IS a real possibility. Without knowing the facts because there is no way to review an agreement, this is an UNKNOWN VARIABLE, and is thus something to be concerned about. Which leads us to the rest of your post....
So... you think it's all conspiratory, and will make up your own conspiracy theories to justify glossing over/ignoring details clearly stated, based on facts found under research (or the lack of evidence, as I can't find any of the details on any of the credit cards from that site other than vague references to fees being "reasonable" and needing to contact them directly to get the details). I'm looking for facts to compare the payment options. you have provided no facts other than "It works for me". That means nothing as we know nothing about how your particular card works in regards to the options currently being compared as an option for payment to SE in each of our individual circumstances. That's not conspiratorial--it's questioning the facts in the case that have yet to be presented by you are any company you've refrerenced. Facts are facts. Lack of facts, leaves things open to speculation based on the facts that are known (reference how much agreements can vary with the cards offered in the US).Quote:
But you would just accuse me of not reading. I'm sorry if I ignore the posts that you put on your tinted glasses on just so you can see only one shade of color, instead of immersing yourself into possibilities. You like to shoot down anything that can be a solution, because you want to go back to the old system. Well, tough nuts, it isn't going back, and staying in the past will make you be left behind (pun intended).
I've seen enough people get hit by unexpected fees over the years, and I have been involved with setting up these payment systems and had to double/triple check the web pages to make sure everything was disclosed to a customer before they click the "Submit" button. I've been involved with researching payment processors before putting together proposals for companies we were selling our applications to--had to take into account expected traffic flow and such to negotiate discount rates, variances in fees for handling debit vs. actual credit cards--all that jazz. Forgive me if it makes me a little bit cautious when getting into any kind of credit card agreement. I simply like to know what I'm getting into before I commit to a CONTRACT that makes me LIABLE for costs incurred to use a payment instrument before I sign that contract. So, I believe in doing a little research first rather than just blindly applying for something simply because a stranger says "It worked for me".
It's not conspiracy theory....it's experience that has taught me the meaning of "Buyer Beware".
Edit:
after a little digging, it appears the company Korpg referenced is (or was) actually US based, just happens to have a footprint in the UK as well. Company profile as published Sept. 2010:
http://www.gcoupon.com/view/internet...alebanking.com
and their WHOIS lookup at Godaddy also places them in California as of Jan. 2011:
http://who.godaddy.com/whois.aspx?do...rog_id=GoDaddy
So, it looks like Korpg infact got a prepaid CC through a US company that has a branch in the UK as well. I would hazard a guess you may find similar options with many major financial institutions. So if someone wants to look into this they might be able to do something with their own bank if it's a big chain--just make sure to get all the details up front in regards to how you intend to use it. Pay special attention to using it online with a UK based company, and just exactly what fees you might expect--won't likely be an exchange fee, but make sure to get clarification on international transaction fees in regards to C&B. Some of these cards can still trip a transaction fee depending on how the Point of Sale (POS) is set up. -
08-15-2011, 12:47 PMMaevia
Hello. I live in Thailand & as of end of this month will be unable to play FFXI. Click & Buy do not accept payments from people living in South East Asia, regardless of where the bank is based. I have a UK Debit card at a UK bank, a UK residence, alll of which I typed into Click and Buy, whereupon they logged my IP as Thailand and told me "C&B products are not available in your country."
This is actually xenophobic bordering on racist. Crysta bought by anny means is not for sale in Thailand or SEA. C&B do not allow Mastercards , Visa Debit, or any other card registered in Europe etc. to be used, if they log your computer IP as being in south east asia you are blocked. I am half English/half Thai and I have a home in both countries, and bank cards in England & Thai too.
I have been paying for Final Fantasy EVERY MONTH SINCE 2003 using my Credit Cards which are registered in England at Barclays Bank. Now, Click and Buy reject my CC because my current nation of residence is Thailand.
Square Enix. I publically accuse you of racism/ xenophobia. Your long-time customer, with a job and several valid credit cards is being kicked from Final Fantasy next week because they live in South East Asia.
I dont even want to hear about 10000s of posts re: C&B and people leaving, people are posting becauuse this Click and Buy policy is utterly outrageous. If you dont want to read posts by other FFXI fans, dont go on the forum community page.
Im speaking on behalf of the many many gamers who , as of this month, are NOT ALLOWED TO PAY for Ffxi because OF THEIR HOME NATION. Thats just bigotry . / -
08-15-2011, 02:48 PMKorpg
It is not SE who is being xenophobia, but you should talk to them about a different method of payment though. They still have the direct method open for JP players, I bet you if you get a JP bank account and transfer funds over there, you can pay directly to SE. But that method would be a lot of work, so I don't suggest that, unless you happen to have an alien registration card on hand, which is near impossible to get.
But instead of calling SE names and falsely accusing them of being xenophobes, you should actually contact customer service. I doubt anyone here has done that at all, they rather gripe instead.
Click and Buy doesn't accept certain countries because of banking regulations in those countries, not because they hate those countries. It is to protect the international community due to certain countries inability to check their own people for fraud and, in some cases, actually encourage theft of the international community (see: Nigeria). But that is a different topic altogether.
You really should talk to SE instead of accusing them of being racist/xenophobic. Doesn't make you look any better tbh.