[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RNG

I agree with the above. Quite why they commented on Blast Shot and not ammo I don't know. It's rediculous.

More and more, people are starting to realise that these forums aren't the close link to the development team that they were advertised as, and in fact have almost no impact on the development team's choices whatsoever. The dev team only responds to a topic that they were already working on before hand. If they were working on problem "A" and a player posts about problem "A", they will get a response. But if they post about problem "B", which the dev team hadn't concidered, they will be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Washburn

Right, but for new rangers that arent familiar with the amount of damage they can do without pulling hate, it would help. I, have been ranger main since the summer of 2004, im pretty good at knowing when to slow the arrows and when i can let em fly. -emnity arrows would be good on longer fights to drop your hate so you could land large weaponskills without keeping the monster on you for 5 rounds of attacks.

Sadly, jobs like RNG and DRG have always been plagued with spastic "lookie me" kind of players who blast as much damage as possible atthe start of a fight, then die every damn time bc thy didnt know how to manage emnity.

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Doesn't really matter how long you've been playing RNG, -5 Enmity arrows (Or honestly any amount of -enmity arrows) are not going to slow your hate accumulation when you've already capped hate, and at this point in the game, it's an extremely easy thing to do.

I don't think it's fair to say that the dev's aren't listening. They're hearing some of what we're saying. There have been several updates and changes to the game that have been taken from these forums (although not from the ranger section). As far as the Q and A goes it sounds like /drg is still the only viable subjob for ranger and that's a shame.

Also Bayohne, I'd like to address this statement:

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We currently have no plans of adding an ability that resets hate for ranger. We suggest forming a party with a job that can control hate, such as thief, to get around this issue.

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I play ranger weekly for voidwatch (which is a heck of a lot of fun by the way). I always allow the tanks to establish proper hate before starting to fight the NM. I usually have a thief in my party and the thief uses collaborator on me frequently. Regardless of collaborator I am the first person on the hatelist the moment the NM uses an AoE hate reset or if the tank dies. I also find that my hate by the end of the fight is quite high and I have to hold back on damage as the fight goes longer to avoid moving the monster. While I don't mind being hit or dying, I feel terrible to move the monster because it makes all of my friends' jobs that much more difficult. It also makes them less likely to want a ranger in the alliance for any NM where non ranged DD are involved. Because collaborator only works on one target none of the mages or other DD in my party are able to gain the benefit of enmity reduction from the thief in our party. Collaborator/Accomplice are not sufficient to manage ranger hate and I think a ranger specific hate reset ability would be quite helpful. With that being said we will have to see how much the proposed enmity reductions and sharing hate with people between you and the monster things work, perhaps a hate reset won't be necessary at that time.

Granted it doesn't seem like SE is taking anyone seriously on these forums, but I think what they're doing is a good start in the right direction with RNG. On it's own it doesn't seem like much, but looking at the bigger picture the enmity transfer ability does address 3 big issues, RNG gets hate too easily, traditional tanks can't keep hate, and RNG has difficulty finding a place in a party outside of a situational setting.

The new ability would kill our enmity gain, we'd help the tank keep hate, and if anything RNG could be used and sought after for hate control giving us some sort of niche. Of course this make's RNG seem more like a THF, but most light DD job classes are JA utility types rather than just outright DD's.

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Originally Posted by Swords

The new ability would kill our enmity gain, we'd help the tank keep hate, and if anything RNG could be used and sought after for hate control giving us some sort of niche.

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This is an assumption, that I'd personally like some confirmation on. We're ASSUMING that we generate less hate in the process, by having someone in front of us when the ability is active. The Manifesto description was "increases enmity towards party members positioned between the ranger and his/her target." That says that the "buddy" is generating more hate, but does that necessarily mean that we're generating less in the process? Is it going to be worth standing in front of the mob, giving up the PASSIVE enmity reduction in order to plant more hate on the tank? Until I see confirmation, I'm assuming this is more of an old SATA setup situation, where you have a two tanks on opposite sides of the mob, with the rangers standing behind the tank that doesn't have hate.

Given how easily hate caps these days, even outside of abyssea, we're not going to benefit in a long fight just by increasing someone else's hate, if we're not reducing our own in the process. Remember what Bayohne said:

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

This ability will last around 3 minutes, and effects will take place for every ranged attack during this time. We do not plan on implementing a long recast time.

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Which means this isn't a carbon copy of trick attack for ranger. Even if we do generate less hate because of this ability, we will still be generating some. To make it place ALL hate on the "buddy" for 3 mins would be farrr too overpowering, especially in a zerg. Realistically, it'll probably be something more like a 25% transfer. I'd hope for more, but I don't like to set myself up for disappointment. We'd be generating 3/4ths of our normal hate per shot (can we get confirmation as to whether or not this effect will apply to weapon skills? It'll be worthless if it doesn't >_>), while the person in front of us gains the missing quarter.

I also have to wonder, if you have multiple people standing in front of you, if it increases the hate for all of them, if it's an even distribution, etc.

This ability will be one to watch with interest, I'm curious about it, but I'm not going to place faith in it until I see it in action.

So job manifesto revision has no mention of Dead Aim not working on WS despite there having been multiple bug reports submitted and had been checked by admins in regards to it....NIIIIIIIIIIIIICEEEEEEEe

Dead Aim works perfectly fine with Heavy Shot, that's for sure. I have annihilator so I'm not sure if you're referring to jishnu's?

Anyway, the real problem with ranger is the delay in between ranged attacks (the delay between shots, not the actual shooting). Remove that and we'll be all set. Thanks!

Quick Edit: Perhaps your critical damage+ is already capped? It's quite easy to cap it inside abyssea with just RR and some critical damage gear (RR + DA is +70% out of a possible +100%).

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Originally Posted by Helel

Dead Aim works perfectly fine with Heavy Shot, that's for sure. I have annihilator so I'm not sure if you're referring to jishnu's?

Anyway, the real problem with ranger is the delay in between ranged attacks (the delay between shots, not the actual shooting). Remove that and we'll be all set. Thanks!

Quick Edit: Perhaps your critical damage+ is already capped? It's quite easy to cap it inside abyssea with just RR and some critical damage gear (RR + DA is +70% out of a possible +100%).

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atleast for jishnu's and arching arrow, its plain to see that dead aim dosen't effect ws. day 1 when we got dead aim, did some ws, and ther was no difference in the dmg before. (40% crit dmg should show a signifigant boost in dmg) try a ws in abyssea without RR/SS then try it with. thats the dmg increase dead aim should give, and it doesnt. or someone can show you the formula and expected dmg vs actual.

RNG needs auto attack for ranged attacks.

The way I see it working is that when you initiate ranged auto attack, ranged attacks will repeat automaticly until you move. While moving it just gets interrupted as it does now, until you stop moving again at which time it starts repeating again. Simply replacing ranged attacks with ranged auto attacks could cause problems in certain situations so a separate macro command could be implemented for ranged auto attack on/off. Alternatively, ranged auto attack could be designed to only work while engaged with a target (you'd still want a separate macro command for ranged auto attack on however because otherwise it could cause problems for jobs that use status bolts)

Dead aim doesn't work on heavy shot

There's no ammo on the AH because RNG is a dead job. Fix RNG and the ammo shortage will correct itself.

RNG isnt a dead job by any means. I sometimes go as a naked RNG in tahronghi or another area to widescan the NM location!

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Time for some ranger love! Remember, keep the feedback and comments coming, and we'll do our best to address it!


The distance correction functionality of ranged attacks greatly affects rangers, and based on the opinions of players, we understand that some kind of adjustment is necessary.

With that said, simply removing the distance correction functionality will not solve every problem, so we are working on adjusting the system to be more positive.

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Honestly, even tho' I'm sure you don't want to "ape" other games I would sugest a "crosshair" icon when you've engaged an enemy (attacked) that continually displays. have it change colors to indicate that you are in the "sweet spot" (if you insist on maintaining this system). considerring the way hate fluctuates (under the current unbalanced play system) this will also help when you've found the sweet spot only to lose placement because player X has decided to pull hate for their DPS bragging rights and the mob moves out of said sweet-spot.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

RNG isnt a dead job by any means. I sometimes go as a naked RNG in tahronghi or another area to widescan the NM location!

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I'll see your naked ranger ad raise you my naked beast with a pet that solos the mob without my even staying in damage range

Posting actual feedback today! :)

Ranger Improvements:

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We currently have no plans of adding an ability that resets hate for ranger. We suggest forming a party with a job that can control hate, such as thief, to get around this issue.

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***If this is the direction the design team wants to go please have them consider giving Camouflage a Static duration. Even a 1min duration would be MUCH better then the random duration it currently has.

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I would like Rapid Shot to be activated every time.

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This will be very difficult, since Snapshot is a trait that can be enhanced to further reduces the time in between ranged attacks, and these two would become very similar.

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***A 100% chance to Rapid shot would be way too strong. However, Rapid Shot atm only has a 5-10% chance to even proc. Since it seems there are no plans to add snapshot to haste,haste samba, or march songs consider adding a plus Rapid Shot to the new Subtle Blow JA (maybe +10-15%). This way RNG can compete a little better vs. high haste situations but still has a timer to balance out the extra damage.

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Eagle Eye Shot has the advantage of having high accuracy, but we are looking into adding additional benefits. We think it will be best if we can add some kind of benefits other than simply yielding high damage.

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***Consider having Eagle Eye Shot add an Enmity Suppression for the next 30 seconds. A RNG could then go all out with what they have but they are not gaining nor losing Enmity.

Lastly, I know it's not mentioned in the Manifesto, but there really is a major ammo issue for both RNG and COR as mentioned a few times on both forums. The design team should look into adding more ways to obtain ammo whether it's buying the ammo from a NPC or adding the synthesis materials to a NPC.

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Originally Posted by Feliciaa

Lastly, I know it's not mentioned in the Manifesto, but there really is a major ammo issue for both RNG and COR as mentioned a few times on both forums.

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The fact they replied to some random point on Blast Shot but ignored the whole ammo issue is completely uunacceptable.

How to fix RNG forever:

Make Haste, March, and Hasso affect the delay of ranged attacks, along with capping at 80% along with EVERY OTHER PHYSICAL DAMAGE DEALER?

How is this unbalanced, since everyone else has it?

At least give BRD a song that reduces the delay of ranged attacks... or SCH a spell that does so...

Haste, march, and hasso should just have snap shot added to them. Rng is not the super dd it was pre ranged attack nerf so no idea why they can't use them.

Or, similar to Hasso's STR increase works, increase the potency of Velocity Shot's snap shot per x amount of levels.

45: 10%
55: 12%
65: 14%
75: 16%
85: 18%
95: 20%

There. I fixed it for you SE.

My biggest gripe about ranger (other than enmity issues) is barrage and sharpshot. Fix barrage so that each shot is calculated independently and not cause subsequent shots to miss if one in the sequence misses. The way it works now, gear that adds additional shots to barrage is next to useless because of the diminishing probability that the extra hits will even have a change to hit.

Either that or make sharpshot GUARANTEE hits while active. If you load up on accuracy, I don't think sharpshot actually does anything at all because it can't push through the accuracy cap.

Better yet, do both.

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

Fix barrage so that each shot is calculated independently and not cause subsequent shots to miss if one in the sequence misses.

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i believe this was changed last patch.

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Accuracy calculations for Barrage will be eased in proportion to the maximum number of shots.

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Screw "eased in proportion to the maximum number of shots". They need to change barrage so that each shot is 100% independent of the shot before. This bull shit about missing all the rest of the shots as soon as one misses has got to go.

Face it, Ranger is a dead job. You're not going to get life back into it through little tweaks here and there. It needs some major adjustments.

Not sure how it can be eased in proportion to the max number of shots. Are they going to raise the acc cap for subsequent shots or something? Because just adding an accuracy boost won't do shit. 95% Acc is 95% Acc and for 8 hits in a row that's still capping at 66% chance to land them.

i'm sure there were actual notes somewhere as to how the system was changed, that's all i could locate in the recent changes though.

It's certainly not all shots are independent now, I've still missed barrages completely. I think they just do 1 accuracy check every couple shots, instead of every shot. (i.e. first check passes, shots 1-2'ish land, next check 3-4, ect.)

That seems more likely. I wish they would just make it one shot with damage x (level of barrage)

Can someone tell this guy that dominating worms is meaningless?

To be fair, it is, concidering most NM worms have Draw-In anyway, and lol @ soloing worms for exp.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

Can someone tell this guy that dominating worms is meaningless?

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This, so much.

There is no place in Vanadiel where being a superior worm killer gives you an unacceptable advantage. They are worthless to farm (yay, flint stones), they give crap xp compared to other opportunities, and any of the important NM's have draw-in.

BLM's can walk around one -shotting most everything they see and RNG's being able to plink-plink worms is a big concern.

unless there was a joke somewhere, there was probably a mistranslation of concern about wyrms, not worms.

Wyrms can move to you if you get hate. Worms can't. Hence SE's argument.