DRK is good enough already...

Why was there no Dia, and loldrg but Angon would have helped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Not to mention were has ur WAR got 20% ja haste from ?

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I'm guessing Hasso + Haste Samba.

I'd rather another WAR DRK MNK DRG over dnc for haste samba or even a COR for the attack speed/attack rolls

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

I really don't get what ya saying taint if ya trying to prove a point with maths plz try and present it a little better.

Also there is so much that isn't covered by this i mean there's things like WS delay and DRK could have one more attack song over WAR unless ya using 3 brds (which we don't need anymore).

Not to mention were has ur WAR got 20% ja haste from ?
why is the DRK using empyrean Scythe when ur arguing about cala ?
And i also believe Sword strap counts towards the total 80% cap.

All i'm saying is before u go trying to prove something u need to consider all the varibles

Outside all this i would rather Zerg DRK/SAM so i can do 300% Torcleaver for the lvl 3 aftermath then just melee in high haste(stacking some nice crit gear) because i seem to lose DMG from the WS delay but thats just what i do.

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Jar said capped haste and most people bring DNCs to AV. Haste samba when the 10% is used is greater then adding another DD.

WS delay is factored in. Not WSing again is just silly esp since torcleaver is a solid WS outside.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jar

Source for PDT trait BS please?

he takes -50% with bracelets up only is all i can find and he still has 999 def at least from what i see meaning to get 2.2 ratio you would need 2200 attack ish

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http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ta...e#Testimonials

As AV’s HP decreases it gains both physical and magical resistance as far as damage is concerned, i.e., it progressively takes less damage. Shield Bash damage ranged from 110~223 from 45~100% HP, and non-resisted AMII ranged from 500~800 (this is not damage cut from NM elemental resist building).


I've only fought him a few times. But also asked Excellence who farm him regularly and they concur.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Why was there no Dia, and loldrg but Angon would have helped.

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I was trying to keep the DEF up since I can't find Jar's 999 def anywhere.

My WAR is really nice btw, only missing a relic/emp/mythic but I can't stand the job. I just don't accept/like when people make false comments about their DRK. Then reference a parse that doesn't exist. Then deflect the conversation everytime its brought up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

I just don't accept/like when people make false comments about their DRK. Then reference a parse that doesn't exist. Then deflect the conversation everytime its brought up.

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This is why I flat out don't listen to certain people on this board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

WS delay is factored in.

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Just curious what is WS delay btw i have never zerged AV so maybe using Torcleaver could be good but from what i've heard AV is a joke anyway can almost be killed by a decent 6

As for a DRK beating a WAR on AV it possible even if WAR is better geared because of things like lag or w/e

anyway i'm sure at the end of the day DRK vs WAR zerg on AV is more about who has less lag/luck/skill than the difference in job.

Anyway some interesting stuff.

Imo WAR would prolly beat DRK when equal geared/skilled/lucky because WAR/SAM can Blood rage the X3 ukkos using Sekkanoki + meditate

but for me my DRK would wreck my WAR epically since i have 90 emp for my DRK and some crappy Gaxe for my WAR lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rezeak

Just curious what is WS delay btw i have never zerged AV so maybe using Torcleaver could be good but from what i've heard AV is a joke anyway can almost be killed by a decent 6

As for a DRK beating a WAR on AV it possible even if WAR is better geared because of things like lag or w/e

anyway i'm sure at the end of the day DRK vs WAR zerg on AV is more about who has less lag/luck/skill than the difference in job.

Anyway some interesting stuff.

Imo WAR would prolly beat DRK when equal geared/skilled/lucky because WAR/SAM can Blood rage the X3 ukkos using Sekkanoki + meditate

but for me my DRK would wreck my WAR epically since i have 90 emp for my DRK and some crappy Gaxe for my WAR lol.

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WS delay is 2seconds.

I wouldn't argue with any of your post. But Jar said a Ukon WAR which is a different beast.

So much fail in this thread...

For the record, even though WS delay is 2seconds, when you're doing several times more damage with your weaponskill than you would with auto-attack in 2 seconds, that argument is irrelevant, isn't it?

I still find it hilarious that SE didn't even give us Blizzard III this passed 90 update.


I can't slam my face into my hand hard enough.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Urteil

I still find it hilarious that SE didn't even give us Blizzard III this passed 90 update.


I can't slam my face into my hand hard enough.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

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You know I was just thinking that as well. Camping NMs for Cala its always fun to blow them up. (when else is it worth casting an elemental spell on DRK)

In a way, I see these new modes as SE's way of giving us those "stances" idea that was brought up a while ago. We have a melee and a magic mode.

Regardless, I still want to see more dark magic spells unique to DRKs. but if Elemental magic actually becomes useful, I welcome it with open arms.

Dealing Tier 4 damage using only Tier 3 spells would be really nice.

I take a month off, thinking we had most of the idiots scared off and come back to...........


/sigh...........................................................................

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dart

I take a month off, thinking we had most of the idiots scared off and come back to...........


/sigh...........................................................................

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Don't blame them for what SE does.

SE DO WAT IT WANT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dart

I take a month off, thinking we had most of the idiots scared off and come back to...........


/sigh...........................................................................

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lmoa WB Dart xD

I have around 18-22 AV kills under my belt. Can confirm its -pdt at low health. All parses showed around 40-50% pdt at lower health (sub 50% is when it starts and gradually builds, think rani)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dart

I have around 18-22 AV kills under my belt. Can confirm its -pdt at low health. All parses showed around 40-50% pdt at lower health (sub 50% is when it starts and gradually builds, think rani)

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yeah its -50% when he puts bracelets on(at 50% hp)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jar

Its AV idiot Your not capping attack on it on WAR

Stoping to do To many weaponskills can also hurt you when you are capping haste too because there is a 2 sec delay and thats alot when the whole fight is less than a min Torcleaver Is alot closer to Ukko's outside.. <.<

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The only reason for that is someone doesn't have a clue how to build a crititcal hit WS build like the atma do in abyssea. I honestly meet very few people that even understand the dex/agi critical hit tier %'s on this game . That would be the underlying factor on building a good Uko. build or falling behind to Cal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

The only reason for that is someone doesn't have a clue how to build a crititcal hit WS build like the atma do in abyssea. I honestly meet very few people that even understand the dex/agi critical hit tier %'s on this game . That would be the underlying factor on building a good Uko. build or falling behind to Cal.

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Torcleaver Did not beat them in Weaponskill damage Tho Avrg Ukkos was only doing 700~ more.


DRK won for the raw fact that Caladbolg will hit MUCH MUCH faster than Ukon.


DRK bosts 86 Delay with Caladbolg with march haste Last resort and doesnt even need full haste in gear to hit 80% (needs 12% in gear to cap)

while ukon.. war will only be at 78.71% haste(102.6133 delay) unless you group took another DD worth of damage out to put a DNC in .. retarded to say the least.

now lets say they BOTH hit for the full 1 and a half min of PD

WAR 1.71 sec delay and 90 sec zerg = 52 swings
DRK 1.43 sec delay and 90 sec zerg = 62 swings

The DRK is meleeing 16.12% Faster and has a VERY significant lead with PDIF Infact unless you are 2 houring on WAR this difference is massive.

so how about this for logic? Bring the job that DOESNT need the BRDs or itself to 2 hour? or bring the jobs that only wins when EVERYONE twohours? when doing 5 AV in an event Its retarded to use that much time on Two hours because you can only have so many CORs and taking everyone out of the zone into abyssea to reset isnt fast either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jar

Torcleaver Did not beat them in Weaponskill damage Tho Avrg Ukkos was only doing 700~ more.


DRK won for the raw fact that Caladbolg will hit MUCH MUCH faster than Ukon.


DRK bosts 86 Delay with Caladbolg with march haste Last resort and doesnt even need full haste in gear to hit 80% (needs 12% in gear to cap)

while ukon.. war will only be at 78.71% haste(102.6133 delay) unless you group took another DD worth of damage out to put a DNC in .. retarded to say the least.

now lets say they BOTH hit for the full 1 and a half min of PD

WAR 1.71 sec delay and 90 sec zerg = 52 swings
DRK 1.43 sec delay and 90 sec zerg = 62 swings

The DRK is meleeing 16.12% Faster and has a VERY significant lead with PDIF Infact unless you are 2 houring on WAR this difference is massive.

so how about this for logic? Bring the job that DOESNT need the BRDs or itself to 2 hour? or bring the jobs that only wins when EVERYONE twohours? when doing 5 AV in an event Its retarded to use that much time on Two hours because you can only have so many CORs and taking everyone out of the zone into abyssea to reset isnt fast either.

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Hmm interesting but where does your double attack rate factor into this particular example considering warriors get vast amounts of DA now upping their overall attack rate and TP gain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Hmm interesting but where does your double attack rate factor into this particular example considering warriors get vast amounts of DA now upping their overall attack rate and TP gain.

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you zerg drk/war so the double attack difference is only about 3 hits(war at 30% DRK at 20%) the war would need much more hits than that or someway to get alot more attack to close the gap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jar

you zerg drk/war so the double attack difference is only about 3 hits(war at 30% DRK at 20%) the war would need much more hits than that or someway to get alot more attack to close the gap.

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You are so out of touch with Reality, its getting old. Your assumptions aren't even correct and you vastly underestimate WARs damage potential, esp in a zerg. The parse is still vapor and you are still talking out of your rearend. Drop it and troll another thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

You are so out of touch with Reality, its getting old. Your assumptions aren't even correct and you vastly underestimate WARs damage potential, esp in a zerg. The parse is still vapor and you are still talking out of your rearend. Drop it and troll another thread.

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Less crying more math if im so wrong tell me why.

lets say AV has 999 def - diaIII and angon (999)-(999*.35)= 649 def

649*2.2(caped PDIF value) =1428 attack

now DRK....
(8+354+16+5+(99+36*.75)+70[from gear]+60[traits]+62[endark]((81+66)*2)[songs])= 970+50% (Last resort + Berserk) = 1455+150(Red Curry bun)= 1605 (capped)

now.. war....
(8+361+16+(99+36*.75)+200[from gear and ill give it a bonus <3]+10[trait]((81+66)*2)[songs])= +50% (Last resort + Berserk) = +150(Red Curry bun)= 1387.5 STILL not capping and i gave you +200 attack in gear lmao an imposable number to get.


so hitting slower and having less attack what hidden fanboy math am i missing in this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jar

Less crying more math if im so wrong tell me why.

lets say AV has 999 def - diaIII and angon (999)-(999*.35)= 649 def

649*2.2(caped PDIF value) =1428 attack

now DRK....
(8+354+16+5+(99+36*.75)+70[from gear]+60[traits]+62[endark]((81+66)*2)[songs])= 970+50% (Last resort + Berserk) = 1455+150(Red Curry bun)= 1605 (capped)

now.. war....
(8+361+16+(99+36*.75)+200[from gear and ill give it a bonus <3]+10[trait]((81+66)*2)[songs])= +50% (Last resort + Berserk) = +150(Red Curry bun)= 1387.5 STILL not capping and i gave you +200 attack in gear lmao an imposable number to get.


so hitting slower and having less attack what hidden fanboy math am i missing in this?

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Right because capping attack is the end all be all. Esp against a job with a higher crit rate which more then negates the attack difference. (if the WAR 2hrs just chuck the att diff out the window) 6hit /sam with 34DA+set bonus (thats what I tp in) and opening with Sekka is going to crush out the extra attack.
The only way a DRK is beating a WAR in a zerg is with SE and we know that doesn't work on AV. I've played with the DPS calc and there isn't a senario where DRK beats WAR.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Right because capping attack is the end all be all. Esp against a job with a higher crit rate which more then negates the attack difference. (if the WAR 2hrs just chuck the att diff out the window) 6hit /sam with 34DA+set bonus (thats what I tp in) and opening with Sekka is going to crush out the extra attack.
The only way a DRK is beating a WAR in a zerg is with SE and we know that doesn't work on AV. I've played with the DPS calc and there isn't a senario where DRK beats WAR.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jar

The DRK is meleeing 16.12% Faster and has a VERY significant lead with PDIF Infact unless you are 2 houring on WAR this difference is massive.

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Kinda Wish i could only quote..

Yeah and its the end all be all when i can overexadurate your attack and your still not capping

real war attack is only 1199.5 making pdif 1.848228043143297

1.848/2.2 = 0.84 so 16% less dmg with just pdif added to there already diminished attack speed doing to ... over 30% less damage now?

Well someone didn't read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jar

Kinda Wish i could only quote..

Yeah and its the end all be all when i can overexadurate your attack and your still not capping

real war attack is only 1199.5 making pdif 1.848228043143297

1.848/2.2 = 0.84 so 16% less dmg with just pdif added to there already diminished attack speed doing to ... over 30% less damage now?

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Right because capping attack is the end all be all. Esp against a job with a higher crit rate which more then negates the attack difference. (if the WAR 2hrs just chuck the att diff out the window) 6hit /sam with 34DA+set bonus (thats what I tp in) and opening with Sekka is going to crush out the extra attack.
The only way a DRK is beating a WAR in a zerg is with SE and we know that doesn't work on AV. I've played with the DPS calc and there isn't a senario where DRK beats WAR.


Maybe a second read will help you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Esp against a job with a higher crit rate which more then negates the attack difference.

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Guessing that what you wanted a reply on?


A Critical Hit is an attack that does more than the usual amount of damage to a monster.
When an attack scores a critical hit, a different animation is used instead of the normal hit animation.

The higher an attacker's DEX, the greater their Critical Hit Rate against an opponent is. The higher a defender's AGI, the less likely they are to have critical hits scored against them.

The minimum critical hit rate from DEX vs. AGI is 5%, the maximum is 20%. Equipment and merits that increase critical hit rate are added on top of this.

It is currently believed that critical rate caps out when DEX is 50 points higher than AGI, at least at level 75. Verification Needed

Critical Hit rate follows an exponential curve. Minor increases in DEX will not have a significant impact on critical hit rate (e.g. DEX+1 = +0.25 critical hit rate). Major increases in DEX increase the rate significantly, whereby DEX+1 ~= +1% critical hit rate.


i see Nothing in ther that would put you ahead of a drk...

I'm not really sure how to do all of that math and stuff, but I've done 3 AV's recently, that i won with both apocalypse and caladbolg vs. Ukons, verethragnas, etc. Same thing for einherjar. I don't see anything beating a good DRK outside of abyssea at this point in time in this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jar

Guessing that what you wanted a reply on?


A Critical Hit is an attack that does more than the usual amount of damage to a monster.
When an attack scores a critical hit, a different animation is used instead of the normal hit animation.

The higher an attacker's DEX, the greater their Critical Hit Rate against an opponent is. The higher a defender's AGI, the less likely they are to have critical hits scored against them.

The minimum critical hit rate from DEX vs. AGI is 5%, the maximum is 20%. Equipment and merits that increase critical hit rate are added on top of this.

It is currently believed that critical rate caps out when DEX is 50 points higher than AGI, at least at level 75. Verification Needed

Critical Hit rate follows an exponential curve. Minor increases in DEX will not have a significant impact on critical hit rate (e.g. DEX+1 = +0.25 critical hit rate). Major increases in DEX increase the rate significantly, whereby DEX+1 ~= +1% critical hit rate.


i see Nothing in ther that would put you ahead of a drk...

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Blood Rage
Job Ability
Enhances critical hit rate and critical hit damage for party members within area of effect.
Obtained: Warrior Level 87
Recast Time: 5:00
Duration: 0:30
Distance: Information Needed
Increases Critical Hit Damage and Critical Hit Rate by 20%.
Overwrites and is overwritten by Warcry.
Does not stack with Boost. Blood Rage will have no effect if Boost is active.

That is 20% + the dex/agi critical tier rate which can be 20% more, however I am not sure AV agi to be able to know this or if its obtainable. It does prove that Taint is right that War get higher critical rate than Dark of which you stated you didn't see. Dark could be in the same party and potentially get this buff but it doesn't help as much since their critical WS suck but more so a warriors Uko.

Quote:

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I'm not really sure how to do all of that math and stuff, but I've done 3 AV's recently, that i won with both apocalypse and caladbolg vs. Ukons, verethragnas, etc. Same thing for einherjar. I don't see anything beating a good DRK outside of abyssea at this point in time in this game.

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I know from my own personal experience using dark vs my warrior that when i set myself up for a critical hit build outside of abyssea that my dark isn't coming close to my warrior. They have an amazing set of abilities and if we are just comparing 1 mob to the entire game that is asinine to define a job by that standing point alone. I reiterate what i said before about most warriors having no clue about critical builds as i have personally witness so many with Uko that clearly don't understand it's use. I used to destroy people with my dragoon with a cletine vs a valk fork simply because my critical tier rate was boosted to a point drakesbane destroyed them. You would get the occasional day that critical would not proc well but very rarely. It was more of a weird algorithm from SE's spaghetti code on those days IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Blood Rage
Job Ability
Enhances critical hit rate and critical hit damage for party members within area of effect.
Obtained: Warrior Level 87
Recast Time: 5:00
Duration: 0:30
Distance: Information Needed
Increases Critical Hit Damage and Critical Hit Rate by 20%.
Overwrites and is overwritten by Warcry.
Does not stack with Boost. Blood Rage will have no effect if Boost is active.

That is 20% + the dex/agi critical tier rate which can be 20% more, however I am not sure AV agi to be able to know this or if its obtainable. It does prove that Taint is right that War get higher critical rate than Dark of which you stated you didn't see. Dark could be in the same party and potentially get this buff but it doesn't help them since their critical WS suck but more so a warriors Uko.

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lol blood Rage was already factored into WS damage thats why Ukko's is doing about 700~1K more but thats not enough to make up for anything


also Base crit caps at 20% and that is the DEX Vs. AGI formula i posted there is no 20% + the dex/Agi

Both WAR and DRK will be at about 45% Crit rate with Blood rage up now should i go into how the weaponskill math works so you can win on one of my posts?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darriken

I'm not really sure how to do all of that math and stuff, but I've done 3 AV's recently, that i won with both apocalypse and caladbolg vs. Ukons, verethragnas, etc. Same thing for einherjar. I don't see anything beating a good DRK outside of abyssea at this point in time in this game.

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Oh good! another guy with a parse, is your made up like Jars or can you post it?

Or will fake math about how AV has 999 def be an easier argument lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Oh good! another guy with a parse, is your made up like Jars or can you post it?

Or will fake math about how AV has 999 def be an easier argument lol.

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you cant post them here....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jar

lol blood Rage was already factored into WS damage thats why Ukko's is doing about 700~1K more but thats not enough to make up for anything


also Base crit caps at 20% and that is the DEX Vs. AGI formula i posted there is no 20% + the dex/Agi

Both WAR and DRK will be at about 45% Crit rate with Blood rage up now should i go into how the weaponskill math works so you can win on one of my posts?

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I would like to see where it is listed that blood rage 20% and the 20% from dex/agi is the same category and capped. I believe you didn't read what i posted since its apparent you stated they would be at 45% which is merit crit + war JA BR + dex/agi crit% and what I stated above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

I would like to see where it is listed that blood rage 20% and the 20% from dex/agi is the same category and capped. I believe you didn't read what i posted since its apparent you stated they would be at 45% which is merit crit + war JA BR + dex/agi crit% and what I stated above.

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Must have misread it i thought you where saying you where getting 20% from no where lol

but the math i said still stands my DRK sits at 46% crit rate

Jar me and taint could post parse after parse and it wouldn't change your mind. I have argued with people in your mindset for years and unless we can physically parse each other there will always be a stalemate on this. I can offer that once i get my apocalypse i will move servers and prove in parsing just how much i do know. The last time someone was "knowing" with me about this they had apocalypse and i had stage 4 and I outparsed them by 15% in Einherjar before all "easy mode" abyssea came out. My very last parse was this same dark vs a war/nin and sam/war (polearm) with above average gear on birds. I was at 41% and i tanked most of the fight losing my TP to the birds. My response to your warrior argument is I personally don't believe they know how to fully utilize their equipment just like the others I have parsed against. I am perfectly fine moving back to Ragnarok and parsing against whoever you want as your god icon for your scenario. I miss UNC anyways he's my huggle buddy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taint2

Oh good! another guy with a parse, is your made up like Jars or can you post it?

Or will fake math about how AV has 999 def be an easier argument lol.

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I started posting parses on my ls's website starting from 2 einherjars ago. You should be able to see them there if you care enough to look.

On AV the damage between me and like an Ukko's WAR is very minimal like ~1k damage because the fight is so short, but on a longer parse like einherjar, it's not even close, I'm over a quarter of the damage of a parse consisting of about 8 DD's.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chriscoffey

Jar me and taint could post parse after parse and it wouldn't change your mind. I have argued with people in your mindset for years and unless we can physically parse each other there will always be a stalemate on this. I can offer that once i get my apocalypse i will move servers and prove in parsing just how much i do know. The last time someone was "knowing" with me about this they had apocalypse and i had stage 4 and I outparsed them by 15% in Einherjar before all "easy mode" abyssea came out. My very last parse was this same dark vs a war/nin and sam/war (polearm) with above average gear on birds. I was at 41% and i tanked most of the fight losing my TP to the birds. My response to your warrior argument is I personally don't believe they know how to fully utilize their equipment just like the others I have parsed against. I am perfectly fine moving back to Ragnarok and parsing against whoever you want as your god icon for your scenario. I miss UNC anyways he's my huggle buddy.

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Most of what i have posted i have supported with math my 8th grade brother could understand


if there is such a difference That all of what i am posting can be laughed off with immature jokes like others are posting there should be a mathematical situation or some number they can inform me about this.

also If DEF is lower than 999 Gekko / Fudo comparisons would say so and Fudo is doing a little more where gekko is about 7-800 and fudo will do about 1.3K

soooo 1.5625 ftp on gekko 3.65 on Fudo

so if im right and sam can get about the same attack as you for fudo ill toss in 1.848228043143297 Pdif for Fudo

and put 2.2 for Gekko

Gekko .75 STr mod and fudo at .6

lets ball park 170 STR on both Using ( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF for WS damage but going to cut out Fstr because its to much work and we want a basic compare i cant do it too if you want after i post this

( 114 + 20 + (170*.6)) * 3.65 * 1.848 = 1773.9876 for fudo (op because they cant get Quite that much attack i dont think prob closer to a 1.6 PDIF)
( 114 + 20 + (170*.75)) * 1.5625 * 2.2 = 898.90625 for gekko

The one i am looking at now did not get Diaed and Fudo is doing about 1K flat 450-500 with PDT up
soo that comes pretty close ........

I just offered to prove that by moving servers. You have a very snooty behavior that behoves me believe that the only way to prove you wrong, like many others I have encountered, is by physically showing you on the game. The math i quite clearly understand as it is my basis for the counter argument. I am quite convinced even posting parse data would only have negative effects so I feel as if a one on one physical showing quite clearly would show you the results needed to win this approach to your belittlement of everyone involved. You can either accept or decline the offer at this point. There have been many things in life that on paper looked rock solid but in practical use was failed logic because someone forgot about something called "human error".