Why complain about balance - recent job changes.

The elemental staves only lower perpetuation costs? They don't add to the strength of the summon?

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

The elemental staves only lower perpetuation costs? They don't add to the strength of the summon?

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Nope. They do nothing for the summons. They only lower perpetuation cost. That's why they aren't vital to summoner anymore, unlike other mage jobs. There are a whole bunch of better weapons with and without perp cost-.

Basically no item affects pets unless it explicitly says so. If it doesn't say right on it: Pet: Bla bla +1, then pets are not affected.

That's why I'm doing pet attack and pet MAB stalves.
Then the magic acc staff and I can dump all of my elementals.

pet MAB staves are not enough to boost spirits up to an acceptable level. And since they also affect the avatars, there's still no reason to use spirits.

And realy the pet attack staff is basically garuda only, shiva if you swing that way.

No amount of buffing makes rush stop being terrible. :p

It SHOULD be good, the gods know why it isn't.

MAB is far more potent than attack, anyway. YOu can stack all the pet attack there is and you'll barely see any difference.

Atmas like Razed Ruins marked the first time a physical stat enhancement ever did anything for an avatar.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

You have too much blind faith.

Take for example spirits. We had 75 as cap for years, and these were the most unbalanced (in a negative way) thing in the game and nothing was done about it. Believing that SE magically will fix them for their level 99 cap release would be nothing but insanity incarnated.

I'm pretty sure jobs like DRK or PLD have no worries though. I'm sure those will automatically solve themselves up to 99. It isn't like anything is broken there, they just aren't best in Abyssea.

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dude, every job has useless abilites and spells >_> just think as spirits like that. you dont see bsts going " AH EM GEEEEE I KANT USE COURIORER KARRY NO MOREZ!!!" its because something better and more useful replaced it >_>

and ill prove anyone in the damn world wrong if they say any job is "useless" or not good enough for abyssea. i can jump on redmage and drop consistent 3-4k vorpalblades non stop, and i can solo just about any Seal NM that dosent have stupid mechanics >_>

some people complain, others bring up concerns, but there is something that feels different now than when the cap was still lvl 75, it actually feels like the devs are really listening to us now rather than just asking the Japanese players like before, and it feels like they are trying to make FFXI a better game rather than just something to tide us over till FFXIV is fixed, who knows what else they have in store for us, the stuff they announced isn't necessarily the only things they plan to implement, I'm sure there will be some cool surprises along the way, maybe even some of them breath taking

look at it this way:the people developing the game have from what I understood been given someone else in charge that sees the game going in a different direction than before, and when we complained about abyssea unbalancing the game in non abyssea areas they came out and told us they were aware and were working on fixing it, as far as I know they are not finished with it

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Before elemental siphon, I would have said remove them, not fix them. There's no way to "fix" them without stepping on the toes of the avatars.

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Since PUP automatons have not replaced SMN's, I don't think any updates to spirits would have any negative impact on avatars. Possibly you wouldn't be using level 60 IV-spells on avatars at 90, but rather spirits for AM nukes. Not a big difference. And IV-spells on avatars are outdated anyway.

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dude, every job has useless abilites and spells >_> just think as spirits like that. you dont see bsts going " AH EM GEEEEE I KANT USE COURIORER KARRY NO MOREZ!!!" its because something better and more useful replaced it >_>

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That isn't a good comparison. A more accurate one would be if BST charm didn't work, and you had to level to 20 before getting call beast. And then for 90 levels you have an ability called charm, but it never does anything because SE decided to make all monsters uncharmable.

In this situation you'd have two choices. Pretend charm was never meant to be anything but a bind tool. Or go to forums and complain that Charm should at least be usable the first 20 levels before call beast is ready. And even better yet, be usable up to level 90 for charming wild animals.

The question is... what would you do? Say call beast is fine and ignore Charm, or whine on the forums? I'm the whining type, who do not accept content being added but not used for 10 years.

People complain because abyssea brought more game imbalance than previously. As an exemple, COR, the job that sucked the most at 75 (last on the job choice in 2009 census) because it was only useful for its exp roll became useless. The issue of RDM vs WHM is not important. Cure VI serves no purpose in the "real world", I've done countless of dynamis runs with rdm only as healer sleeper and it's better than whm easliy. Give RDM cure V and they become one of the best (mage) job again. Anyway I'm taking bets on on the 6 most played jobs to be WHM > BLM > RDM > THF > WAR > MNK still , just like in 2009 and just like in 2002. Abyssea failed to balance the game it brought boredom.

Markov, I've honestly been told that SMN is the second best healer, not RDM, because Light Spirit has always had Cure 5. Sorry, you'll need to complain more.

;)

Light Spirit is also costly to keep out MP wise and casts random, therefore no it isn't the second best healer, the second best healer is SCH not RDM, RDM comes in 3rd(along with DNC and BLU) in that respect, SMN is an okay healer from about lv55 to 65, before or after that its not that great, if anyone says SMN is a great healer because of Light Spirit they really need to rethink that, Light Spirit is not a reliable healer

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Post count +1? You win!

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Did you lose your hat from that whoosh?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Markov, I've honestly been told that SMN is the second best healer, not RDM, because Light Spirit has always had Cure 5. Sorry, you'll need to complain more.

;)

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Do you want to take bets on SMN's position in the census that will come soon ? Noone played it at 75 and there are no more reasons to play it now. Simple. MNK, WHM, brew or bust = the game as of now.

Census means nothing when it comes to how good a job is. Stop being dumb.

This again, laziness in the developer part, big time. Rdm and Sch could use Cure 5, even Pld - but we know this will not happen anytime soon, no big surprise there. Some of the jobs that are deemed less useful in Abysea events probably will not see much of any updates or enhancements, because that is just how SE rolls. Do the minimal, add useless crap, and do nothing to fix the existing problem. I'd love to be positive and not be so negative, but so far, it's like dreaming rainbows and unicorns...

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Census means nothing when it comes to how good a job is. Stop being dumb.

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Talk about your mission impossibles, yukyukyuk.

That being said, SMN is a decent healer, But not best due to the randomness of Light Spirit. Even with its low timer, It might waste it on say, Protect or Regen and then someone will get hit by a big TP move, and while you have Cure IV your spirit still has a cool-down timer.

Still, it would likely be WHM > SCH/SMN > RDM. Heck i might put PUP above RDM because it gets Cure IV from the subjob and has an Automaton. Because what does it come down to for raw curing power? All 4 of them have the same spell, Cure IV, i think SMN has access to ~+48% Cure Potency in gear.

Doesn't have Fast cast though like RDM Does, or the SCH ability to boost Cure potency. Its a toss up if you ask me.

As for its MP Cost, Spirits can be reduced to piddly amounts of MP with the right gear today, Even outside Abyssea. inside they can be reduced to nothing, with refresh back (if you have MM Atma).

So while technically yes a SMN could sit back in full healing mode with a Light Spirit by their side and cure. Its random, Just like a WHM Automaton (not completely random though, I dont think Light Spirit casts -Na spells, So its got one up on Automatons :D)

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

MNK, WHM, brew or bust = the game as of now.

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that would be in abyssea, personally I don't even like abyssea, I wouldnt even be doing it if I didn't want the empyrean gear

Wow I didn't know people could have such a heated debate over the Summoner class lol.. :x this is kind of amusing.

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Originally Posted by Selzak

Did you lose your hat from that whoosh?

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Your post pretty much accomplished nothing but increase your post count by one, now two lol. Go troll somewhere else please :P

*Throws more bait*

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Do you want to take bets on SMN's position in the census that will come soon ?

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SMN got nerfed lately for being too powerful. That low census number is just popularity, not power.

SMN was too powerful? Since when? Was it back when meteor was absorbed by 1 utsusemei shadow?

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

SMN was too powerful? Since when? Was it back when meteor was absorbed by 1 utsusemei shadow?

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Did you miss out on the DG fun? Shame.

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Wow I didn't know people could have such a heated debate over the Summoner class lol.. :x this is kind of amusing.



Your post pretty much accomplished nothing but increase your post count by one, now two lol. Go troll somewhere else please :P

*Throws more bait*

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You don't seem to understand how trolling works. Trolling is when YOU say something inflammatory to provoke someone ELSE into posting. The Troll is the one who leaves the bait, not the person responding to it (that would be you). Thus, by throwing bait, you're trying to imitate a troll.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

SMN got nerfed lately for being too powerful. That low census number is just popularity, not power.

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SMN is so powerful that nobody plays it... okay. 2009 census results

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1 White Mage 14.06%
2 Red Mage 13.07%
3 Black Mage 12.50%
4 Thief 8.39%
5 Warrior 7.79%
6 Monk 6.49%
7 Paladin 5.51%
8 Ninja 4.73%
9 Samurai 4.27%
10 Bard 3.01%
11 Dark Knight 2.97%
12 Dragoon 2.73%
13 Dancer 2.67%
14 Blue Mage 2.60%
15 Beastmaster 2.39%
16 Summoner 1.93%
17 Ranger 1.49%
18 Scholar 1.41%
19 Puppetmaster 1.07%
20 Corsair 0.92%

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http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui...nsus/09/3.html

take your bets. I put money on SCH SMN and COR to be the losing trio.

Notice that those numbers are from a poll about which is your favorite job. So this is the distribution of jobs if everyone could come whatever they felt like to exp parties or LS events.

And it is kind of depressing that only 2% wants to play SMN, if they were allowed to. While the actual playing count is more like 0.5% tops.

2009 was a bad year for SMN. Let's see the post-DG numbers, then talk.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Well, you are partially right. I get the impression 50% of the people play the job to see Fenrir because they think a wolf is awesome. I can't count all the old stories about new people being saved by Fenrirs and getting obsessed by them.

But I don't think even SE knows why they added (all) spirits. For example Light spirit and Dark spirit are from level 55-60 NMs. The only reason these differ from avatars at all, is that they can be bought on AH after someone gets the scrolls.

And if spirits were intended to be used until you got avatars, at either level 20 or 60, why are they useless?

I think the hard faced truth of spirits is that SE just added them without any plans at all except "Give players something shiny until they get avatars". Like their only purpose was to allow skilling up summoning magic... which had no effects on the job.

Any way you look at it, they've always been a failure that SE should have fixed. They can be happy that SMNs managed to work around it with /WHM and cure 3, else the job would have been more extinct than defending ring.

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If this is an obscure reference to my other topic on this forum there is a difference between obsession and interest.
To be obsessed by something means it occupies one's thoughts all the time. To be interested in something means more of curiosity. Fenrir may have sparked my interest in SMN but it is far from an obsession. The summoner who killed a goblin following me on my first walk to Jueno used Carby.
If I am wrong I offer you an apology. However, I felt the need to clear that up.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Notice that those numbers are from a poll about which is your favorite job. So this is the distribution of jobs if everyone could come whatever they felt like to exp parties or LS events.

And it is kind of depressing that only 2% wants to play SMN, if they were allowed to. While the actual playing count is more like 0.5% tops.

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Nope it's not a poll it's ingame data of what people used a as main job at a given time. The poll was on the left side and I chose the actual data from the right side. This ranking therefore represents what jobs are the most useful.

The poll and game data have corsair last anyway.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Nope it's not a poll it's ingame data of what people used a as main job at a given time. The poll was on the left side and I chose the actual data from the right side. This ranking therefore represents what jobs are the most useful.

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So COR is the least useful job in the game.

Yeah...

Correct but maybe you will explain why not. If those jobs were useful maybe people would play them. They took a picture of the jobs distribution at a given time, probably prime. This englobes exp and endgame altogether then. It is representative. You'll never find more cor than blm etc. The system is based on 6 man parties, including alliances that are split into 3x6, so you have to choose 6 jobs out of 20 almost always.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You don't seem to understand how trolling works. Trolling is when YOU say something inflammatory to provoke someone ELSE into posting. The Troll is the one who leaves the bait, not the person responding to it (that would be you). Thus, by throwing bait, you're trying to imitate a troll.

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I find that the best way to repel trolls is to confuse them ;)

EDIT: You've also heard of fighting fire with fire I assume lol.

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

I find that the best way to repel trolls is to confuse them.

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Turn them on each other if you have enough trolls.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Turn them on each other if you have enough trolls.

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Now that's using your noggin! Lmao :)

hehe yeah watching trolls go at eachother is a bit like watching 2 fires fight eachother, neither can really win but they sure as heck go at it like they can

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Correct but maybe you will explain why not. If those jobs were useful maybe people would play them. They took a picture of the jobs distribution at a given time, probably prime. This englobes exp and endgame altogether then. It is representative. You'll never find more cor than blm etc. The system is based on 6 man parties, including alliances that are split into 3x6, so you have to choose 6 jobs out of 20 almost always.

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You'll never find more COR than BLM because the class is inherently expensive to maintain and was released years after BLM.

Pre-Abyssea, COR was one of the most useful jobs you could use in an alliance setup and worked beautifully alongside a BRD in a party setup. The same will be true post Abyssea as well.

You also have to keep in mind that those survey numbers include more then just jobs at 75.

Half the reason War, Mnk, Thf, Whm, Blm, and Rdm are at the top of the list is simply because everyone starts as those jobs so every ones lower level alts are included in that poll as well I believe.

if WHM/BLM/RDM are the most played jobs, how come when I try to form a party all I see is WAR WAR MNK MNK SAM NIN NIN SAM WAR MNK DRG?

Healer shortage.

There's no shortage. WHM, according to that (2 year old) census, is the most played job out of them all.

Of course, I suppose there ends up being a percieved shortage, since 2/3 of all WHM are /anon all the time. how ironic that they play a popular job that everyone needs, and subsequently hide themselves from everyone.