ATTN: Dev/Comm. Rep -Relic & Mythic Weapons Reborn {Yes, Please}- レリックとミシックの強化

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

With Apoc you can wear the full DRK AF3+2 set and get all of it's bonuses and still have capped haste.

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5/5 AF3 is not a good gear set. The set bonus is not worth the loss.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

5/5 AF3 is not a good gear set. The set bonus is not worth the loss.

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Apoc aftermath is 10% haste, and counts as gear haste, you don't actually lose anything depending on what pants/shoes you were wearing before, and it could potentially be a big increase.

Let me rephrase that, you can wear full AF3 except for the body which you can replace with the Twilight Mail and still have capped haste.

Bale Burgeonet +2: Haste+6% STR+7 Scythe skill+7 (swap with Twilight helm for WS)

Bale Gauntlets +2: Haste+5% ACC/ATT+10 (swap with Heafoc(?) for WS)

Twilight mail ACC+25 All stats +15 (swap with Ares for WS)

Bale Flanchard +2: STR+12 ACC/ATT+15 (full time this)

Bale Sollerets +2: STR+9 INT+9 (full time this)

Goading belt: Haste+6% Store TP+5

Apocalypse: ACC+35 Aftermath: Haste+10%

Including DEX from the twilight mail and scythe skill from the Burgeonet this is 26% haste and 103 Accuracy, as well as +43 STR and +57 attack (including ATT from STR) I don't know of any other set that would give you stats that good during TP phase.

Apocalypse is just a common weapon. 10% haste has always been "not game breaking" as anyone could cap haste or get close enough without it. What made apocalypse win parses vs, say, a destroyer BB monk at 75, was it's high dps and good ws - not the haste, even indirectly. If you are pushing buffs in alliance type events like einherjar, everyone caps pdif and accuracy so meh at other stats. If SE want to buff apocalypse they need to give it an unusual stat like ODD or crit rate/damage or something that cannot be capped normally.

So wait, getting basically 10% free gear haste for WS and allowing you to use more str/attack/da gear during tp phase does nothing to increase your over all damage?

So I got Torcleaver today. Inside abyssea on Bluffalo I averaged 1400 on PLD using mithkabobs and stalwarts 95% of the time. I figured it should be much higher than this given it's suppose to have some super attack modifier right? Leveling up to 90, it was much much lower damage too. Could barely hit 1k at lvl 86. (the 1400 is what it averaged after hitting 90)

So I went to check those lame birds, and switched to DRK. Seaboard vulture's switch from no defense on check to low defense on check when you switch from 443 to 444 attack, so as I said, they're really weak. Those numbers you posted were not anything special, and were consistent with what they should be. My first WS on them did 3600 (triple attack lol) And after that they did the same as yours, with slightly less stats than you had, and slightly more attack. You're going to need to provide solid evidence to support your theory of some kind of attack bonus to Torcleaver or I'm calling BS on it.


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Twilight mail is junk, p body with triple attack or e body with double attack would be better.

So you lost on the "all relic but one can be better than empy" and try to move the debate onto the dumb pdif boost theory ?

@ Kimble : yes being able to exchange y stats for x stats is barely an advantage in alliance type events. Everyone caps attack/accuracy/fstr so meh. Only the dps, the haste and the quality of the ws matter at this point, pretty much like in abyssea except this time you can cap str and attack solo.

I think Taint is referring to a Store TP set which in turn gives some better X hit builds if he had finished his sentence.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

So you lost on the "all relic but one can be better than empy" and try to move the debate onto the dumb pdif boost theory ?

@ Kimble : yes being able to exchange y stats for x stats is barely an advantage in alliance type events. Everyone caps attack/accuracy/fstr so meh. Only the dps, the haste and the quality of the ws matter at this point, pretty much like in abyssea except this time you can cap str and attack solo.

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You just proved to me you have done nothing outside of abyssea so anything you have to say is moot.

I've done everything outside of abyssea except voidwatch, I know better than you. In alliance fights mobs have dia3 and none are strong enough to have uncapped accuracy.

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except voidwatch

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So lv 75 content then?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

So you lost on the "all relic but one can be better than empy" and try to move the debate onto the dumb pdif boost theory ?

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There was no debate about any of the other relics, only great swords, and some kind of pdif boost to torcleaver matters in the context of what we were discussing, so ya, I'm steering the conversation that way, provide solid evidance or stop saying it has one.

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

So lv 75 content then?

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Never heard of dynamis II ?

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

There was no debate about any of the other relics, only great swords, and some kind of pdif boost to torcleaver matters in the context of what we were discussing, so ya, I'm steering the conversation that way, provide solid evidance or stop saying it has one.

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You are only trying to save face. All relics suck right now except the horn and the shield. This is the reality of the game.

So the only thing you havent done is voidwatch, which is where the game is going in the next update and were you actually need things like acc, attack, etc. yet you know better than I do?

Voidwatch and neo-dyna are things you need acc/attack on. Sorry, you aren't auto capped there, you know nothing.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Never heard of dynamis II ?

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Ok, so one new thing and the rest 75 content, cool.

hes most likely only doing the EP mobs in those zones anyways and not the newer NMs higher tier mobs.

If he has, then he is just laying cause no way you are easilly capping acc/attack, etc on them.

And id wager to say that Relic blow/gun are the same if not better then their counter parts as far as hate control goes atm.

Dagger is totally better for THF atm.

You aren't taking into account what someone could be using for their Store TP builds OR their DA/TA rate increases. One set of gear doesn't end all be all in this game without first taking into account everything provided. I personally wouldn't use your set myself and the % increase of Dark AF3 isn't worth using as a full set compared to the other options for DOT damage.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You are only trying to save face. All relics suck right now except the horn and the shield. This is the reality of the game.

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There are only 5 empyreans which outdamage their relic/mythic counterparts, and only on weak/average difficulty mobs, or inside abyssea, because they are crit based weapon skills, with the 1 exception of Katana. Kannagi is always better. You need to quit ignoring the fact that there are some relics that are better, and even mythics that are better, and stop focusing only on the 5 empyreans that are very good. This is what I have been saying, and will continue saying, I'm not trying to save face or change my story because well, I'm correct. Look at the empyreans you are not mentioning for instance.

Relic scythe is always better, relic club is always better(and mythic club is actually useful for the jobs role, and not just for DDing), relic dagger is always better, relic polearm is always better (than empyrean, and mythic is the best ever at all times) SMN mythic is best, PLD mythic is amazing because it breaks PDT cap, relic shield breaks MDT cap, relic axe is better than empyrean, relic gun is better for rng than empyrean, and relic gun/bow are useful when youre trying to keep mobs from attacking you compared to empyrean bow. There really is not much of a differance between Amano and Masa too, they do just about the same damage with capped acc, but once acc falls below cap Amano wins. Even Bravura can beat Ukon, the absolute best of the empyreans, all it requires is fighting decently difficult mobs, like those found in voidwatch. So anyway, this is me saving face now, cause I'm pointing out that I'm sticking to my original claims or something.... I'm not really sure how that works exactly, but pchan said I was trying to change my story, so it probably wasn't even worth responding to. Sorry if this last paragraph doesn't make much sense.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

hes most likely only doing the EP mobs in those zones anyways and not the newer NMs higher tier mobs.

If he has, then he is just laying cause no way you are easilly capping acc/attack, etc on them.

And id wager to say that Relic blow/gun are the same if not better then their counter parts as far as hate control goes atm.

Dagger is totally better for THF atm.

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I think you missed the "18 alliance type event" of my post. Oh and while we are at it you do cap acc because grown ups buy food doh.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

There are only 5 empyreans which outdamage their relic/mythic counterparts, and only on weak/average difficulty mobs, or inside abyssea, because they are crit based weapon skills, with the 1 exception of Katana. Kannagi is always better. You need to quit ignoring the fact that there are some relics that are better, and even mythics that are better, and stop focusing only on the 5 empyreans that are very good. This is what I have been saying, and will continue saying, I'm not trying to save face or change my story because well, I'm correct. Look at the empyreans you are not mentioning for instance.

Relic scythe is always better, relic club is always better(and mythic club is actually useful for the jobs role, and not just for DDing), relic dagger is always better, relic polearm is always better (than empyrean, and mythic is the best ever at all times) SMN mythic is best, PLD mythic is amazing because it breaks PDT cap, relic shield breaks MDT cap, relic axe is better than empyrean, relic gun is better for rng than empyrean, and relic gun/bow are useful when youre trying to keep mobs from attacking you compared to empyrean bow. There really is not much of a differance between Amano and Masa too, they do just about the same damage with capped acc, but once acc falls below cap Amano wins. Even Bravura can beat Ukon, the absolute best of the empyreans, all it requires is fighting decently difficult mobs, like those found in voidwatch. So anyway, this is me saving face now, cause I'm pointing out that I'm sticking to my original claims or something.... I'm not really sure how that works exactly, but pchan said I was trying to change my story, so it probably wasn't even worth responding to. Sorry if this last paragraph doesn't make much sense.

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Yes still no maths and only opinions.

Yeah but for some of these jobs, they will have to use pizza to cap their acc or get close to cap, while relics because they get +35 acc (2 handers) wont have to so they can use attack food to do better damage.

Honestly, we all need to just remember. Its Pchan, he likes to fight and be wrong so people will give him attention.

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Honestly, we all need to just remember. Its Pchan, he likes to fight and be wrong so people will give him attention.

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Maybe he's just trying to like, reverse troll, where you intentionally give wrong information so people have to prove you wrong, because then anyone who reads the thread will see how stuff really is?

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Originally Posted by Kimble

Yeah but for some of these jobs, they will have to use pizza to cap their acc or get close to cap, while relics because they get +35 acc (2 handers) wont have to so they can use attack food to do better damage.

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Not this meat argument again. It is only relevant when both player must cap accuracy as much as they can in every slots. You are also assuming that the empy guy has to use pizza. What is this imaginary event that BG trolls have 50% accuracy on and dont change job to blm lolz. But maybe you two are going to finally align equations ?

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Not this meat argument again. It is only relevant when both player must cap accuracy as much as they can in every slots. You are also assuming that the empy guy has to use pizza. What is this imaginary event that BG trolls have 50% accuracy on and dont change job to blm lolz. But maybe you two are going to finally align equations ?

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It's called Voidwatch, and you need lots of different jobs so you can get procs and actually get drops. BLM army wont get anywhere.

No it is not. If you have 50% hitrate you use sushi.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Annhilator is better than Armageddon outside abyssea.

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Speaking as an Annihilator owner and a possible Future Armagedon owner. I can say That Relic gun is basically the only weapon for rng that allows you to push the dmg limits while maintaining the lowest ammount of enmity generation possible. Sure I really don't understand why it matters durring a brew if your weaponskill does 60K dmg or 8K dmg but I guess if your brew locking or killing several bosses at once it has it's advantages.

I think my annihilator works pretty well inside and outside of abyssea but my main complaint is that the gun is friggen stone cold ugly. I mean come on why does armagedon get to be some cool white dragon bone peace pipe thingy while Annihilator is basically a few graphical tweaks away from a hellfire. I mean it doesn't do my epeen any justice when I don't have the crazy looking weapon swinging at my side like half the ninja's on my server just once I would like my gun to talk and /yell out in a zone other than jeuno that my ranger is the "boomstick". Serriously SE why don't you just augment annihilator to be like scavange+20 inside abyssea or something cuz that would be awesome like mythic crossbow.

Serriously I do think my Annihilator is pretty good since it keeps me alive longer than any other rng I know. My only complaint would be the lack of decent ammo to use with my weapon. Camping the AH to provide ammo for my gun is pretty silly. Granted I can craft the ammo but that isn't as much fun.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

No it is not. If you have 50% hitrate you use sushi.

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No it is not what? I have no idea what you are even replying this to, lol. Are you saying people in voidwatch dont have acc issues?

But WAIT you never done voidwatch, how would you know?

You dont have to do voidwatch to have uncapped accuracy for one. For two at 50% hitrate you must use accuracy song(s) and/or use sushi. But wait... I bet you double march and use meat. Also voidwatch has no good drops. Not sure why they released it. I think you do everything wrong tbh.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

You dont have to do voidwatch to have uncapped accuracy for one. For two at 50% hitrate you must use accuracy song(s) and/or use sushi. But wait... I bet you double march and use meat. Also voidwatch has no good drops. Not sure why they released it. I think you do everything wrong tbh.

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There's a +3 march instrument from Voidwatch, Rancor collar is also from voidwatch, and There's a 4 MAB ring, Those 3 items are really amazing and thats completely indisputable. Beyond that the body armors/hats are good depending on job and there's other stuff too that isn't terrible, but you could argue against them.

Yeah man, boy that quad attack neck on 2 handers sure does suck. Let me tell you. And I hate the way Fazuheulo Radiant Mail made 5 hit/haste cap on DRG easier.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Yeah man, boy that quad attack neck on 2 handers sure does suck. Let me tell you. And I hate the way Fazuheulo Radiant Mail made 5 hit/haste cap on DRG easier.

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Don't be silly, mnks don't use staff!

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Don't be silly, mnks don't use staff!

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full usukane mnk 4 lyfe!

bump



bump

Looks like the level 95 relics had the extra damage proc rate increased.

Triple Damage: 5% -> 12%

Double Damage: 5% -> 20%

2.5 damage: somewhere in between, probably 16%.