Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

/sigh it makes me really sad to see that SE has managed to really upset the player base that they really needed, by that I mean the people that were loyal to the point that were still here even after all this crap, im totally up for new content being added as in the past each and every time its brought new life to the game. iv been on the game 6 yrs not as long as some I know but I have seen lots of addons in that time all have been great for the game, the diff in my opinion is they broke from the working tradition of bring out new content and a new super weapon to go with it, non of this would of occurred if there was just a fourth super weapon that was of a same lvl an difficulty to obtain. I know its a weird thing to say but I find it very hard to believe that a dev team that works for a company as big in the world of rpg/mmo as SE is could get it so wrong by accident, I don't know why they would do this but I think no one let alone the real pro's would be stupid enough to think that everything in the game prior to this addon should be made pointless and the stupid effort weapons they been pushing us towards since they made dyna solo farm should be /laughed at to. my point is that they must of had a motive that they have not shared with us and was just hopeing that we would all just shut up and follow like good sheep or maybe with the player base dropping like flys there plan is occurring round us and there is some reason were not seeing that they would want us off the game [just a guess I have no reason I can think of why they would want this]. the thing I find most sad is that if intentional or not personally I think this game for most hardcore players is now beyond saving. just in my little FF world I run 3 lses 2 of which are totally gone now due to people leaving and my last ls is mostly people who turn on the game to say hello an do events with people they know and don't care about progression at all and sadly even that lses numbers are starting to drop. in my opinion possible the best game ever ruined by not thinking or not caring about the effort people put in to it. GTA V!!!!! out soon hopefully SE can fix but I don't see me on this underpopulated game much longer as the buzz that I had about this awesome game fof 6 yrs has gone

Arguments for disposing of RMEs:

1) It limited the Dev team's ability to enact their vertical progression plan in the weapon slots
a - Those slots are determines the majority of any DD's damage.
b - It is a bit of work to maintain 104 weapons (52*2) during vertical progression and add upgrade quests for them, so keeping them relevant and updating them is apparently not feasible for FFXI's dev team.
c - There is a considerable gap between pre-Adoulin second-best weapons and RMEs, but weapons within that gap would still have been seen as second-best to RMEs, which isn't vertical progression.

2) The commonness of RMEs during the Voidwatch days was a substantial barrier to endgame entry for any casual player, which essentially forced these people off melee jobs. There is no reason to believe that this trend would not continue in Adoulin.




Arguments against permanently disposing of RMEs:

1) RMEs rewarded player efforts in a large chunk of content (Dynamis, Abyssea, Voidwatch, Salvage, ZNM, VNM, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle, Assault), which was important for several reasons:
a - Casual players had a good source of income farming whatever currency they were comfortable with.
b - It helped players that missed out on a specific event (like getting Captain in Assault) gather people.
c - It dramatically increased the amount of relevant content for "hardcore" players and gave them many more potential activities, which is important because it kept them playing and stopped things from getting repetitive.
d - It was a major economic drive, and now a large portion of the playerbase that does not care about gil.

2) RMEs are the most interesting weapons in the game both to obtain and to use, so their irrelevance makes FFXI a poorer place.

3) After 8+ years of superiority, RMEs were seen as a permanent reward for massive effort. When they became easier to get, many people underwent a slightly less massive effort and obtained them. A lot of these people were so pissed at the decision to outdate RMEs and the lack of RME updates that they quit. Some might return if RMEs were updated.





Analysis:
I think that SE decided to dispose of RMEs for reason #1 (top) probably while only considering consequence #2 (bottom). It was the simplest solution to a complicated problem, but they got a lot more blowback than they expected.

If I had done it:
I would have added a "weapon damage" stat to equipment and placed substantial boosts there while releasing very competitive sidegrade weapons. Specifically:
* I would have made sidegrade weapons not have hidden effects, but give them higher base damage and higher raw DPS.
* They would be balanced such that things like relic procs, aftermath, etc. would even it out so the "sidegrades" were only minorly superior to RMEs before gear.
* Base damage on equipment would benefit the RMEs more than the sidegrade weapons, because they start with lower base damage, and if you had good enough equipment then your RMEs would remain the best weapons in the game.

Results:
- This solves problem 1a, because equipment can now matter however much people want.
- This solves problem 1b, because RMEs never need to be updated.
- This solves problem 1c, because such sidegrade weapons and new equipment could be scaled such that RMEs are essentially invalidated every patch until the user obtains the best equipment.
- This solves problem 2, because the gap between an RME player and a "sidegrade" player would be small under ideal situations, and would specifically not depend on the weapon slot so it would be harder to discriminate against sidegrade players.

- This still allows old RME-building content to remain viable.
- This maintains the relevance of RMEs.
- This allows players that have put in their time to maintain their investment by doing current content.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

He's me. Regularly help the LS with Abyssea mobs, since even Skirmish armor and weapons makes me a remarkably durable DD compared to the folks that are behind me. And patiently picking up COR gear for the point where there's a Delve call, at which point I'll be picking up one of those fancy new weapons. My Mandau days were pre-update, on another account.

I did plenty of time in Dynamis back when I was an RDM or COR main. 5 years ago. Why the heck should I go through 2008 content to play 2013-era areas? I'd rather spend a few million -buying- a Delve slot with a group than the time (itself worth money) and Gil on a bunch of marrows for a mythic. Or even simply gleefully getting my LS-mates up and running here in Adoulin so they can have a go at it themselves, if they so desire.

And if he wants to bottom feed instead, more power to him. Heck, I spent an afternoon helping one of the linkshell's RUN farm Ise hearts. And if they put upgrade quests in for RME's, I'll help with those too- but I do NOT want to see the same weapons be "best in class", expansion after expansion. When gear was more sidegrade than literal level-up, that was one thing. Now, having the capacity to actually do endgame be such an ardous, long road is counter to the whole process.

Or they can simply get in on a Delve run for far less time and effort and play in endgame. And that's my point. While I don't feel that outright negating previous efforts is right, I also feel that shoving the entire history of endgame into a player's face and saying "YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING WE DID TO ADVANCE, OR WE SHALL SHUN THEE" is plain ol' wrong.

Can they do it? Sure. Should they HAVE to do it to keep up? F-no.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Are you completely current with Delve gear?

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You didn’t respond to this, so I’ll ask again. Are you completely current with Delve gear? If you’re sporting an Izhiikoh for your THF main, then great. If you aren’t, then you’re telling me that going after the best weapons in the game isn’t actually as important to you as you say. Whether RME weapons or Delve weapons are the best will never matter because you’re not going to get them anyway, and you simply don’t want others to have nice things.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

Newsflash. When you spend 10 whole years of your life playing one videogame, it is no longer in the 'casual hobby' bracket it goes into the 'your life' bracket, since you might live for 60 years, you spent 1/6 of your life playing FFxi. So it is a major part of your life. If, like me, you spent almost a full year grinding WOE bosses for single coins/lims/dice for your NQ99 empy, and you were very happy with it (even though it was gimp compared to HQ empy and RMs of course, which I didn't mind at all coz I don't have the time or gil to farm those), only to be told your NQ99 empy that you spent a big piece of your life obtaining, is unable to hit or damage lolmobs in rieves, while a cheap pos bayld forefront weapon can damage them just fine, is an insult to me. Yes people are sentimental and attached to their weapons, if they spent years of their lives building it why should they not feel emotionally connected to the weap. That is not the problem, the problem is SoA arrived, and unlike all previous expansions, the new weapons completely dwarfed everything that preceded them, SoA it is not the normal FFxi progression at all.
And then another point, forefront weapons came out and were originally just slightly more powerful than a 99NQ empy (which was wrongheaded in itself), but then a few weeks later SE patched forefronts overnight, making them way more powerful with the skill+ bonuses etc. So if they can add DMG and skill+ to forefronts overnight as they did, why didn't they just do that to all RME's when SoA came out. Why make people run around missing rieve mobs with their empys, we could have had them patched from the SoA launch.

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Um.... Rude?
Especially because... what you're describing... is exactly what I said.
0_0
(and in which case you were quoting me to bring attention to your agreement... I apologize for my misunderstanding.)
You no longer have a "this is a freetime thing" concept tied to your REM... Because you spent such a long time building it (which is classically shown to make a human give more value to something they make over something they just buy) you then have ascribed value to it.
This ascribed value is the source of the REM being just tossed aside backlash.
And that is valid.
With the obsolescence of these items which by their very nature cultivate a sense of worth to those that build them from nothing. (even Relics, which IMO are the least player-invested building until you start bringing the lv75 up to 99)
It was a severe oversight to not have these be upgraded to match (ala the example of the rieve gear) or by introducing a few more trials to boost them to current end-game standards (ala the way they were updated with the level cap being raised to 99).

Personally, I'd prefer an iLv adjustment to make the "99-2"s be like 103-106 and then a trial for 109 and then another for 115 or whatever.
Or even have the 99-2s be 109 (cause AF1 weaps are 109.... so... yeah....) and then add more from there.
I think that would be a better way of handling things than making them iLv 110 now.... and then two months down the road introducing iLv128 weapons.
(cause then you can add another trial when you introduce those new iLv weapons that would instantly trash the iLv110REMs.)
Also: any post 99-2 trials would need to be something not dumb. none of this 30000 item shenanigans. >:|

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Originally Posted by detlef

You didn’t respond to this, so I’ll ask again. Are you completely current with Delve gear? If you’re sporting an Izhiikoh for your THF main, then great. If you aren’t, then you’re telling me that going after the best weapons in the game isn’t actually as important to you as you say. Whether RME weapons or Delve weapons are the best will never matter because you’re not going to get them anyway, and you simply don’t want others to have nice things.

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Nope. I already did the RME rat race on my first account (Mandau) and have a linkshell in which fully 50%+ of the players aren't through Abyssea yet. What's important to me at this point is getting the Adoulin newbies through to the point where I can enjoy slapping Naks around with them. If for some reason that doesn't work out, I've got a standing offer to be KI'd through on Delve runs for a few million Gil, at which point I can kit myself out after a few plasm-farming runs. I've got a full set of Skirmish +1/+2 gear at the moment, since that's where my linkshell's up to and frankly, I enjoy doing things with them rather than mostly strangers. Heck, I'm helping someone with an 85-90 Masamune in the LS right now, just like we did Isgebinds till I started getting simulated snowblindness.

I've already DONE the endgame for years. I can drop some Gil and get into it again when I please, but frankly I'm waiting to see if I'm going to have to do another damned RME to be in it to the top. If I don't have to spend the inordinate amount of time and sweat making one because S-E doesn't simply put them back on the top of the chart again, I won't.

So you don't have your Delve wins, but you can pay some gil for a merc group to carry you through it at some point in the future. And you think it's best for the game if the most powerful weapons can be obtained this way. Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Well when you think about it, for a Relic you can pay some gil for the currency, do some minor annoying work to get it finished & to 95, then pay some more gil for Marrows, then your at 99, and will probably be able to pay people to do whatever your 120 trial is for you too. In the end, gil can buy both things, if that's the problem you see.

That's a fair point, but 10m to leech Tojil is hardly on the same scale as making an RME (even if you didn't farm a single thing). It's just too easy.

I think RME need to be upgraded, I mean the amount of work they take even if paid for with gil is far higher than that of any other weapon or item in the game.

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Originally Posted by detlef

So you don't have your Delve wins, but you can pay some gil for a merc group to carry you through it at some point in the future. And you think it's best for the game if the most powerful weapons can be obtained this way. Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

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That's correct, I can. The reason I'm not packing Delve gear right now is I'd rather do it with friends. But the option is available.

And yep. Because the other option for newbies is to pay, and pay, and pay some more- oh, and pay again if they want to have an endgame-appropriate weapon that matches up with their fellows as rather than going through one step of that process, they get to deal with it six, seven, ten times as much instead just so they can contribute with their friends. In content that is only accessed specifically to grind through said gear.

This needs to stop. A process that requires you to chew through ancient, outdated content to gain gear appropriate to the current expansion is inappropriate, especially in an age where item level literally IS your effective level. Giving players the option to upgrade old gear, absolutely wonderful. Requiring them to go back multiple expansions to be effective in the current one no longer is.

You're essentially advocating leeching instead of joining a group and contributing your fair share. Well, that's one way to get through the game.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

And yep. Because the other option for newbies is to pay, and pay, and pay some more- oh, and pay again if they want to have an endgame-appropriate weapon that matches up with their fellows as rather than going through one step of that process, they get to deal with it six, seven, ten times as much instead just so they can contribute with their friends. In content that is only accessed specifically to grind through said gear.

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The way things are going, it appears that SE will always make an easy-to-get, "endgame-appropriate" weapon for players such as yourself. You shouldn't feel threatened by RMEs, you'll still be able to get an awesome weapon that you can use to farm Abyssea or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Rustic

This needs to stop. A process that requires you to chew through ancient, outdated content to gain gear appropriate to the current expansion is inappropriate, especially in an age where item level literally IS your effective level. Giving players the option to upgrade old gear, absolutely wonderful. Requiring them to go back multiple expansions to be effective in the current one no longer is.

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It seems like one alternative gives players tons of events to participate in regularly while your alternative would have players do a single event, cap out on gear, and have nothing to do. I wonder which one is healthier for the game. The only reason you don't see a problem with this is because you don't even do Delve, the single event that still matters for weapons.

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Originally Posted by detlef

You're essentially advocating leeching instead of joining a group and contributing your fair share. Well, that's one way to get through the game.

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What, you mean the part where I want less of a series of people getting merc'd through old content so they can do new content?

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The way things are going, it appears that SE will always make an easy-to-get, "endgame-appropriate" weapon for players such as yourself. You shouldn't feel threatened by RMEs, you'll still be able to get an awesome weapon that you can use to farm Abyssea or whatever.

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>implying I'm threatened by RME's

I already -did- a Mandau once on my previous account. It was such a disagreeable process that I don't want it to be a requirement for Adoulin-era play.

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It seems like one alternative gives players tons of events to participate in regularly while your alternative would have players do a single event, cap out on gear, and have nothing to do. I wonder which one is healthier for the game. The only reason you don't see a problem with this is because you don't even do Delve, the single event that still matters for weapons.

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Let's see. Was that a relic weapon, where you sit there farming currency off mobs I can solo in Skirmish gear without blinking? That's not too bad, up to farming Umbral Marrows or so to get 99. It'll just take hideous levels of time. At 99, you're going to need some help.

Maybe it was a Mythic weapon, waiting days for a potential HNM beastman king to pop so I can actually proceed with the process and the chokepoint of Alexandrite that's only going to get worse with time?

Perhaps it's an Empy weapon, where I can kill the same NM 60+ times to level it up? Won't be too bad till the end, of course. Then you're stuck trying to get stuff like 1500 plates from top-end Voidwatch NMs.

That isn't entertainment, it's slow torture. Aside from the items needed to upgrade a weapon, everything from that content is functionally useless. Now, you update that content along with making RME's useful, then we're talking a success, but RME progress as it stands is nothing but a huge, useless timesink if it becomes needed to do endgame, as whatever is getting upgraded is going to be a step up from the sadist's chamber that is L99 (insert weapon/instrument/shield of choice here).

By comparison, the process to an endgame weapon is now bayld -> skirmish -> Delve, something that is current content only. And that's how it should stay- endgame content should be built on a series of progression that comes from the same expansion as is current, not require the player to make endless detours through old content just to be able to do what everyone else wants to. The only time this shouldn't happen is if old content is updated to be part of new content.

Which is hasn't. And won't be, considering the dev team.

use the enter and tab key or GTFO.

I've been playing this game for about 3 months now.. (maybe less) and I've got to say some of the longest playing players have the WORST ideas. To me as a new player who has player many other games the idea of there being a set definite best equipment in the game is a simple way of setting goals. In my opinion REM should be the best equipment in the game bar-none with the caveat it of being job specific. If new content comes out a new upgrade path should open for REM allowing them to be on par with such content. That way people aren't just flocking to one area and we have more ppl actually playing the whole game and not just Adoulin. (I haven't even been to dynamis....). Getting Adoulin gear make the game.. "yawn" and it's frustrating when you spend so much time getting to 99 and Empy only to find out that you can't hit ANYTHING until you spend some more time grinding Bayld to get some essentially crappy equipment just to get by in Adoulin.

That's the part that completely sucks about the game is having a feeling of achievement completely splattered by a new area in which all you're previous work is for naught. I personally think that if you spent the time and effort to get empy +2 you should at least be able to hit and kill things in Adoulin. Delve gear can still be the best all around gear but empy should be the best job specific gear.

Honestly I bought the game with all the expansions and I've spent most of my time in Adoulin and Aby. The reason is because no one has a reason to go back, give ppl a reason and us noobies will have someone to help us out. When u're a noob no one helps you out unless there is something in it for them. I honestly was ready to quit when I went to adoulin the first time.. I'm extremely happy because I had empy +2 gear on my monk (after literally begging ppl to help me), I thought to myself I'm ready for Adoulin and I set forth to start, after 2 mins of exploring I get agro and the first mob kills me.. WT(curseword). Then when other players told me I had to do carrier runs or reives (boring stuff) just to get bayld to buy NEW equipment simply to stay alive.. I was about to just cancel my subscription. I didn't but I stopped playing for about a week.

Oh also, I love it when people shout for parties for stuff I need in Adoulin but then get shot down because I don't have the best Delve gear.. It makes no sense to require a player to have the gear they are trying to get in order to get it. (That sentence doesn't even make sense) Essentially I shouldn't need Delve gear to get Delve gear.. it's dumb.

The month is over half way over with. When are we getting notes on upgraded weapons? I'm worried content will be implemented without player feedback.

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Originally Posted by Tptn937

The month is over half way over with. When are we getting notes on upgraded weapons? I'm worried content will be implemented without player feedback.

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Knowing SE, they're probably going to fuck up on RME again :)

Personally I think the best way to make everyone happy is make RME weapon situationally useful, and still keep delve weapon good. If you're really into that job, you get RME AND delve weapon. If you don't care about the job as much, don't bother with RME. One very good example is apoc, it's a very useful(and fun) weapon if you want to lowman on DRK, real hardcore DRK would make one, but it's by no means a must have for DRK.

Making REM on par/a bit subpar/a bit better than delve weapon is pointless, the game would go back to SoA vertical gear progression crap. One thing that's fun about FFXI, is that you have tons of gears to choose from depending on situation.

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Originally Posted by Afania

Knowing SE, they're probably going to fuck up on RME again :)

Personally I think the best way to make everyone happy is make RME weapon situationally useful, and still keep delve weapon good. If you're really into that job, you get RME AND delve weapon. If you don't care about the job as much, don't bother with RME. One very good example is apoc, it's a very useful(and fun) weapon if you want to lowman on DRK, real hardcore DRK would make one, but it's by no means a must have for DRK.

Making REM on par/a bit subpar/a bit better than delve weapon is pointless, the game would go back to SoA vertical gear progression crap. One thing that's fun about FFXI, is that you have tons of gears to choose from depending on situation.

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I was having a similar discussion with a LSmate of mine...
They were of the opinion/want that because Ochain was mentioned to be an effective iLv150, that Adoulin is gonna bring us all the way to 150.
I.... disagree... and pray that I am right that Adoulin will only go as high as CL20, ie iLv119 (120).

Because if it DOES go to 150.... the moment the other fractures get added, which I think will remain at 120 level, but my LSmate believe will be higher....
REMs will be jank again.
And then we're back to square one AGAIN...
And even worse.... The DELVE ppl who don't want REMs back because they are afraid of being out of the spotlight again... will be shoved out of the spotlight right along with the REM ppl... because.... 130 Delve!

hopefully I'm right in my understanding that Adoulin is only going to 120.... that all the Delve fractures will be 119iLv drops... and that Delve-Bird and Delve-Tree will offer the missing weapon types. (as it stands we have 119 h2h, dagger, sword, axe, polearm, great katana, and... crossbow. But The Nakuaal's in WKR2 give us a club, great axe, scythe, and... another axe... so it stands to reason that their Delve versions will give the 119 version of those weapons.)

This next update is what will really make or break the game completely.
Succeed in reaffirming the work of REMs, but making Delve2 >120.... = failure
Succeed in reaffirming the work of REMs, but making Delve2 =120, and thusly show that Adoulin will not step farther than 120... = sustainability

EDIT: Ironically... ALL of this could have been solved with one thing: a single magian trial/REM to give them an appropriate iLv and/or making the 99-2 REM have an iLv.
Then, should the game progress higher than 120, there can be more day1 magian trials.
This whole iLv thing... while interesting... it's not been done before.
Many people feel that it's broken or "halfassed"... but I am fine with it.
I think it's because I'm a scientist and this kind of "oh crap, we didn't take into account X thing gotta fix that" is kinda the basis of my entire profession. (specifically thinking about that huge update where all iLv weapons got an overhaul and we got all that fake skill and stuff... That kind of change is very normal in labwork.)
So for me, this kind of updating is normal.
But I can understand why this type of creation would bother people.
Outside of labwork... this kind of thing never happens.

Sounds like this next update is a killer update. We're getting new spells, maybe abilities, RME upgrades, and so much more. Honestly, imo, I really hope they are taking a chill pill on monstrosity and focusing on what most people want worked on.

Not to offend those that love that new system, but the main game is still pretty messed up. I can't get over how many spells and ws's are still broke after 4 years. I'm really saddened by Tourbillion not working if no one has noticed the last few months that I have been begging SE to fix.

I doubt the next fractures will be level 113 & 119 weapons again, they will push up the levels, why? Simple, because of the WKs. Original WKs were level 106 gear, new WKs were level 115 gear, by that example, we can expect fractures to go up by about the same amount probably, 10ish levels. I would be somewhat surprised if they actually kept it at 119, because the increase from WK to Delve would be only 4 levels.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

You're probably thinking "if that’s the case, then don’t announce anything," but because I thought it wouldn't be good to not let you know anything until plans were finalized I decided to make this post. (I've been under so much stress I feel like I'm going to get an ulcer >< But I know I shouldn't be complaining.)

...

I apologize, but unfortunately I am unable to answer anything at this point in time. One of the reasons I felt I should not have mentioned anything during a stage where various things have not been finalized yet, despite prefacing it that this is non-finalized information, was following up on individual specific questions based on supposition.

Being silent because it's not possible to answer right now would remove the whole purpose of why I posted, but on the other hand, continuing to entertain suppositions would cause expectations to grow even more wild. As a result of this, things that I didn't promise would turn into promises, and I would like to avoid making it seem like we are breaking promises.

...

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This is the New Producer or the "New Final Fantasy XI"?? After six months out I thought I'd try the new content I've missed out of and stayed up to date about. The after-math of Abysea has left the state of the MMO in ruin(and mostly due to the credit of FFXIV:ARR).

Should I give Matsui a chance and see how FFXI holds up? The whole direction Vanadiel is going is leaving me in disarray. Critiques are pointing to "gear focused content" being the cause of the whole transformation of FFXI.

Is there more story, a better expansion leading FFXI into the future for the better? What's going on here!? (o . o)?

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

I doubt the next fractures will be level 113 & 119 weapons again, they will push up the levels, why? Simple, because of the WKs. Original WKs were level 106 gear, new WKs were level 115 gear, by that example, we can expect fractures to go up by about the same amount probably, 10ish levels. I would be somewhat surprised if they actually kept it at 119, because the increase from WK to Delve would be only 4 levels.

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I think they will, because there are missing weapon types. 119 staffs, clubs, GS, etc.
Of course there's the 117/8 crafted ones... but that's not the same.

And I KNOW people would be crying foul if the GS dropped off a facture Mega Boss was like 130 or whatever... while all the oats mnks/pups got were the dinky 119.... blahblahblah.
keeping the upper limit 119 (CL20) makes it so no one type is favored over any other.

Hopefully, keeping it 113/119 split will also favor new aug paths for the other fracture gear.
-PDT, +Cure%, +fast cast, etc, etc, etc
There's so much that could be an augment path that the ones we currently have are woefully basic.
BUT for the first implementation, basic is good. Because basic is what let's you "test the waters".

And as for ppl being jealous or not.... Of course they will be. I know that I'm certainly jealous of BST and DRG getting 119 gear for their pet's levels while PUPs and us SMNs are left at 113... (Though I think there was a post recently about how they have a cap at like 115 or something... idr I only glanced at it.)

So I think they're gonna just have 119 be the cap for Adoulin, and have different fracture bosses drop different types of weapons and there will be different synth 117/8 weapons... so by the 100% completion of Adoulin.... there will be at least 2 117-119 weapons to choose from depending on your taste and playstyle and whatnot.
I also think this would play into their whole "we want to make more gear choices" thing they're doing atm.

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall a road map from a few months back showing Delve boss weapons being the highest level gear in their iLv system... I'll try to find it if I can, but it's pretty much been my understanding that iLv 119 is currently the highest level they have planned for gear, meaning most stuff will likely be side grades for a while. While I do agree we should've never actually left level 99, considering we were only that level for what, like a year and a half I think it was? They could have easily branched out more from where we were... But alas, the die has been cast, so now they're just trying to make up for their mistakes it seems heh.

Edit: Found the chart. It's in a post by Camate on this page.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...309#post448309

Shows level "20" being the highest planned iLv for gear, being in reality 119 of course. It's always puzzled me why people were freaking out that current gear was going to be gravely outdated in each update following with them already stating iLv 119 was the current planned cap. ...Other than the fact this is XI's Dev Team we're talking about heh, but that's a discussion for another thread.

The reason is simple, they said that 119 was the cap for the time being, not that it was the be all end all cap for all of Adoulin, and since the newer WKs are a higher level than the old, and the old Delve content was based off of its corresponding WKs, it only makes sense the cap will once again rise.

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Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory

And I KNOW people would be crying foul if the GS dropped off a facture Mega Boss was like 130 or whatever... while all the oats mnks/pups got were the dinky 119.... blahblahblah.
keeping the upper limit 119 (CL20) makes it so no one type is favored over any other.

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That is exactly why I fully expect the new stuff to be iLevel 130. They almost never do what makes sense and / or consider the repercussions unless there is a huge stink cloud about it in the forums after the fact.

Prepare yourself for upgrades to RME that bring them to level 119 and new weapons that are level 130 in the same update.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

The reason is simple, they said that 119 was the cap for the time being, not that it was the be all end all cap for all of Adoulin, and since the newer WKs are a higher level than the old, and the old Delve content was based off of its corresponding WKs, it only makes sense the cap will once again rise.

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Japanese is an awkward language.... It's SUPER nuanced.... and "for the time being" might be a good enough translation... It carries different weight there. Because Japanese is weird like that.

I really hope that "for now" would be better translated "for this expansion's length"... because otherwise:

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

That is exactly why I fully expect the new stuff to be iLevel 130. They almost never do what makes sense and / or consider the repercussions unless there is a huge stink cloud about it in the forums after the fact.

Prepare yourself for upgrades to RME that bring them to level 119 and new weapons that are level 130 in the same update.

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SHUSH!
We don't want this.........
It's what I am most afraid of happening...
But surely the lesson has been learned...
:(

Hello,

Below is a comment from Producer Akihiko Matsui.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Matsui here.

I’d like to once again thank you all for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and coin weapons.
I’ve read over all of the feedback, both for and against, and have taken it into consideration.

As it would appear that pretty much all your feedback has been posted, I will be closing this thread and working on the below plans: (Most of it is from my original post)

• Perform revamps on relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.
• The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
• Shield and instruments will not be included in these revamps.
• Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
• The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons.
• We will continue to look into unlocking the weapon skills from coin weapons further.

In regards to coin weapons, as we are only at the stage where we are considering the basic direction to do this, we will continue to look into this due to the fact that it needs additional scrutiny.

Once we’ve solidified all the plans for the weapon revamps and the result of our discussions for coin weapons, I will be sure to let you all know.

Thank you very much.

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Yaaaay! It would be great if we could get some example weapon stats to look at in the meantime.

Hello,

Apologies for the delay for information regarding the relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon revamps.

Below is a message from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to the current status.

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Matsui here.

I'd like to make an announcement about the relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon revamps that are scheduled for the November version update.

There have been no changes to the plans I outlined previously for the revamps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

• The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
• Shield and instruments will not be included in these revamps.
• Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
• The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons.

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Specifically, RMEs will become item level 119, and in exchange for keeping the special stats as they are we will be scaling back the damage value slightly to balance it.

To upgrade them we will not be making a new Trial of the Magians, and we'll be making adjustments so that certain content is not overcrowded for this by having multiple ways to obtain the items you need to upgrade these weapons.

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Additionally, Matsui made another comment regarding the other aspect of these plans which involved the unlocking of empyrean and Walk of Echoes weapons’ weapon skills.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Matsui here.

I'd like to make an announcement about the unlocking of empyrean and Walk of Echoes weapons’ weapon skills, which is scheduled to take place in the November version update.

The plan is to maintain the basic idea that you unlock these weapon skills after completing a certain process, but we will be easing this process and aim to increase the weapon skill choices beyond those that you acquire through merit points by allowing a lot of players to unlock these special weapon skills.

The unlocking will apply to Walk of Echoes weapons that have reached level 99 and empyrean weapons that have reached level 90. Additionally, we will be easing the trials for Walk of Echoes weapons and reducing the work needed to make them.

Specifically, we will be increasing the routes for trials and adding routes where NM battles and seals are not needed. On the other hand, as there is a huge difference in difficulty between the new routes and the current routes, we will be easing the current routes and reducing the amount of seals, coins, Devious Die, and Liminal Residue needed by more than half.

The latter adjustment is for those of you who have already progressed quite a ways with your Walk of Echoes weapon. Though I apologize that if you have already traded in items more than the amount needed after the adjustment you will not be able to get them back.

The method for unlocking the weapon skills will not be via a new Trial of the Magians trial, it will be a different method.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

Specifically, RMEs will become item level 199

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What?



<_<;

I...really hope that "Item Level 199" is a typo heh...

Ochain is supposedly ilevel 150 or some such as it is already so who knows...

He meant item level 119. That's what it says in the JP version.

Thank you for the heads up Byrth... Seemed like too large of a jump even by SE's standards lol.

"To upgrade them we will not be making a new Trial of the Magians, and we'll be making adjustments so that certain content is not overcrowded for this by having multiple ways to obtain the items you need to upgrade these weapons."

So what does this mean, they are not making a new trial to upgrade but yet they say no overcrowding to obtain these and upgrade. I am assuming meaning like dynamis and other areas? Frankly if its another collecting of items, SE can kiss my butt

So, I understand that the base DMG rating will be lower, the real question that need be asked now seems to be, will the Skill be the same as other 119 weapons? I hope the skill stays the same as on other 119 weapons due to the fact that it would be highly damaging to the weapons to lose out on a stat as vital as accuracy. So long as we don't lose any skill, this seems great!

Damn 199 would have made Dragoon's Wyverns...quite strong!

Development time needed to glue silly stats to these weapons could have been spent more helpfully elsewhere, if development time hadn't been wasted through creating an item level and progression system that players do not want in tandem with the spending of even more development time in the creation increasingly convoluted methods of patching the vast, gaping holes in the mechanics that support said system that players still do not want.

Then we'd not only have fully functional REM weapons, as we have had in the distant past, but - even better - we'd have a nice big jar of sugary development time that could be amply spread over something hot, freshly toasted and delicious to make it even more delicious. Such as literally anything else ever created by anyone in the entire history of Vana'diel. Or perhaps - and I might be getting a bit extreme here - some of the long-awaited, promised features that people were actually looking forward to.

We quite like those.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Frankly if its another collecting of items, SE can kiss my butt

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I think SE does mean collecting items:

"we'll be making adjustments so that certain content is not overcrowded for this by having multiple ways to obtain the items you need to upgrade these weapons"

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Originally Posted by Leocon

I...really hope that "Item Level 199" is a typo heh...

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Yes, sorry! It should be 119. I've corrected the post. Thank you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Frankly if its another collecting of items, SE can kiss my butt

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Serious question: If additional busywork wasn't necessary, how would you spend your time in-game? Doing Tojil for the millionth time? Skirmish? Provided that the upgrade process is reasonable, making us work to upgrade our weapons is good because it gives us something to do.