[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn!

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The mobs depop, just like anywhere else.

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After a certain time or distance, sure.

But this would also mean that they are no longer considered special mobs who would stay up upon "spawning".

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Nice try, troll, but no, SE did not ban "most of the prominent players." They only banned most of the prominent *cheaters.* Any person could have seen the treasure pool duping had to be a bug, not intended and should not have done it, and exploiting bugs was clearly mentioned in the terms of service. Those people deserved to be banned. Despite this, those people do not represent "the majority of prominent players.

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For the most part, the two concepts became equivalent, especially the longer bots, Windower, and illegal programs and exploits became the means to become prominent.

By the time the Salvage bans became in force, the only reason any prominent player was able to stick around was either a restarted character or a deliberate turn of the back by Square-Enix (Anyone remember the illegal first kills on Pandy Warden??)...

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are you joking? people will NOT DO THE EVENT!

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They absolutely will. They certainly won't do it any less than they do now, at the very least.

You don't seem to understand. It doesn't take 20-30 people to do dynamis anymore. People will only do it because they want to do it or need to do it. If 5 friends decide they want to help one of them get a relic, they'll do it. If someone wants to have some good gear for when they're approaching abyssea but don't have its gear yet, having the relic gear ahead of time will give them something to use. There are plenty of reasons to do dynamis, especially with it being cheaper and more accessible.

The way you write your post says to me that you think people DO do it now, and won't do it after this. I would contend that dynamis is already dead, and if anything this will breathe some small amount of life into it. These changes are being made so that the people who still want something from these areas can do so

Dynamis isn't hard and hasn't been hard for a while now. I'm completely baffeled by the "say it ain't so" about "my beloved dynamis." Was it really THAT fun to do after several years? Not to say I didn't enjoy doing it, but it certainly didn't have the same charm after the 5th year of doing it. I'm happy that they're changing it around, as that will make it a little more "fresh" again.

Finally: The Dreamworld areas are not being changed (yet). If you love everything about dynamis so much, the old system will still be available in those areas.

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For the most part, the two concepts became equivalent, especially the longer bots, Windower, and illegal programs and exploits became the means to become prominent.

By the time the Salvage bans became in force, the only reason any prominent player was able to stick around was either a restarted character or a deliberate turn of the back by Square-Enix (Anyone remember the illegal first kills on Pandy Warden??)...

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All of it false... SE did not ban people who did not intentionally break alliances to get more stuff (e.g. it only happened once or inconsistently, not every single run). SE's only error was in their (agreeably) slow response (This does not absolve people of guilt however: Should a murderer go free just because it took prosecutors longer than it should have to find the evidence to convict him?). But it certainly wasn't intentional. I'm ignoring all the talk about programs and such. SE cannot detect third party programs (in a legal manner) unless they alter data being sent to/from the server. Fixing a bug and punishing people who abused it is within their control. Third party apps, mostly not.

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But this would also mean that they are no longer considered special mobs

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They are no longer considered special mobs, because they give experience. The non-NMs, based on what information we have been given, will depop and reset the same as any normal mob would. Not "after a certain amount of time." You cannot MPK people with normal mobs.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

What you've all been looking forward to has arrived!

The details listed on "[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn!" have been updated so please check them out!

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Gildrein,

With the new changes underway, has the development team considered implementing the idea of upgrading current relic armor(s) dropped from the Dynamis zones? I believe this would be vital and open an opportunity to implement monsters and NMs that will not only carry a great challenge, but rewards in obtaining items to upgrade those armors.

I assure you that the population would agree that if the element of a "challenge" still exist in Dynamis, like how it was challenging and rewarding to gain relic weapons and relic armors, after the updates and stipulations, it will rekindle the fires of adventuring and fighting in these zones as well as regaining the sense of accomplishment in fully upgrading relic armor(s) that will be superior to those of the easily obtained and modified/upgraded armors of the Empyrean Armor(s).

It is too soon to say, but it should be highly consider since we are knocking on "Level 99" front door. Keep us posted if this is possible.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Dynamis isn't hard and hasn't been hard for a while now. I'm completely baffeled by the "say it ain't so" about "my beloved dynamis." Was it really THAT fun to do after several years? Not to say I didn't enjoy doing it, but it certainly didn't have the same charm after the 5th year of doing it. I'm happy that they're changing it around, as that will make it a little more "fresh" again.

Finally: The Dreamworld areas are not being changed (yet). If you love everything about dynamis so much, the old system will still be available in those areas.

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My LS is pretty much maxed out on armor. A few people want thf hands for their 9th main job they might play every now and then, but other than that, we're done with the armor. We still do Dynamis twice a week to get relic weapons for each other. I got mine, now it's my turn to stick around and help other people get theirs.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're serious about sticking to only CoP runs if I love Dynamis so much. The coin rate in CoP runs is abysmal. We've done CoP runs since they were first introduced and our LS has only seen the bosses drop 4 hundos twice in all those years. We throw in CoP runs to keep things interesting mostly. The city runs are where the coins are, and coins are 95% of what we want from Dynamis right now. To make an analogy of what you're saying, if you love delicious cake so much, eat the crumbs and don't complain when people who hate cake take the rest to make their trash smell good.

The people who like these changes don't like it because it's Dynamis, they like it because it's something new, and they would be happy with ANY new event. They'd be happy if SE tore any old event they no longer do to pieces and turned it into an abyssea knockoff. What they fail to grasp is that it's not actually Dynamis, it's just the same rewards that used to be in Dynamis in a dumbed down abyssea ripoff.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

They absolutely will. They certainly won't do it any less than they do now, at the very least.

You don't seem to understand. It doesn't take 20-30 people to do dynamis anymore. People will only do it because they want to do it or need to do it. If 5 friends decide they want to help one of them get a relic, they'll do it. If someone wants to have some good gear for when they're approaching abyssea but don't have its gear yet, having the relic gear ahead of time will give them something to use. There are plenty of reasons to do dynamis, especially with it being cheaper and more accessible.

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I never said it takes 20-30 people I said people did do it at 75 because it was something to do and they could get gear from it.

with abyssea out it kills that reason.

most likey what will happen is people where flood it when the update comes out, try to sell them, prices plummit, people go "this is not worth it " never do it, then prices raise higher then they are now.

and ill stay that way because people are abyssea only.

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The coin rate in CoP runs is abysmal.

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Really not true. If these runs lasted 4 hours, you wouldn't get that much less. The *rate* isn't much different, only the time available to farm.

New dyna should be win win for you. Unless you're really still having tons of fun with the predetermined dynamis setups after several years, this should be both a fresh change of pace AND beneficial for you and your goals.

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most likey what will happen is people where flood it when the update comes out

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It's not likely to happen. Most people who stopped doing dynamis don't suddenly have a reason to do it again other than to see what's different. I might be continuing the relic I already started, but if I hadn't already started one, I wouldn't be very interested in going back.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Really not true. If these runs lasted 4 hours, you wouldn't get that much less. The *rate* isn't much different, only the time available to farm.

New dyna should be win win for you. Unless you're really still having tons of fun with the predetermined dynamis setups after several years, this should be both a fresh change of pace AND beneficial for you and your goals.

It's not likely to happen. Most people who stopped doing dynamis don't suddenly have a reason to do it again other than to see what's different. I might be continuing the relic I already started, but if I hadn't already started one, I wouldn't be very interested in going back.

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DING! that is why it needs new content, new upgradable matts like stuff to +2 relic gear, have my "proof" yet that dyna needs new contant?

if you don't it is POINTLESS to update.

dyna needs to be more then just relic weapon currecy.

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DING! that is why it needs new content,

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BZZZT. We need NEW new content. not new Dynamis content.

Dynamis is specifically for getting the 2nd tier of job specific gear and some fancy weapons. That's all it's for and that's how it should remain.

No one's asking for new assaults or salvage runs, either. To get new stuff we want new content, not old content with new items added.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

BZZZT. We need NEW new content. not new Dynamis content.

Dynamis is specifically for getting the 2nd tier of job specific gear and some fancy weapons. That's all it's for and that's how it should remain.

No one's asking for new assaults or salvage runs, either. To get new stuff we want new content, not old content with new items added.

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If SE is counting on people logging more Dynamis hours in order to counteract their lowering of the currency droprate then Dynamis needs new drops to make it appealing for people who don't care about relic or trash AF2.

Let's face it, most of the relic armor is complete trash and nothing you can't get 12 of within 2hrs of city runs. What are you supposed to do then? Most people have dabbled in Dynamis as it is one of the oldest events in the game so unless SE decides to make all those funny named NMs drop new gear or something, this event will be niche like WOE.

Yeah, we need new content but adding some new gear to Dynamis2 in addition to old content would make sense. If this is going to just be a retread easymode Dynamis then one has to ask why bother changing it in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Really not true. If these runs lasted 4 hours, you wouldn't get that much less. The *rate* isn't much different, only the time available to farm.

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We had our second-best Dynamis Tavnazia (currency-wise) on Saturday. 154 bynes, 160 shells, 62 coins (376 total in 2 hours, 188 per hour). On 12/29/11, we had a Jeuno run which yielded 98 bynes, 339 shells, 347 coins and the clencher is that was a full clear with an hour remaining on the glass, so it took us only 2.5 hours. (784 total in 2.5 hours, 313.6 per hour). On 9/11/10, we had a full clear Sandy run with 727 coins and 30 minutes remaining on the glass. On 12/15/09 we had a Bastok full clear with 794 coins and I didn't write down how much time remaining on the glass.

I could go on, but what this boils down to is we average about 100-150 coins if no hundos drop on a CoP run. We average about 350-400 coins if no hundos drop in a city. 350(the low end of cities) / 3.5 hours = 100 coins per hour, *2 hours = 200 coins, which is 50 more coins than the high end of CoP runs. Even if we spent the whole 3.5 hours in the city, even if we could spend 3.5 hours in CoP runs, the cities are still a more efficient source of coins per hour, and DEFINATELY a better source of coins per gil.

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New dyna should be win win for you. Unless you're really still having tons of fun with the predetermined dynamis setups after several years, this should be both a fresh change of pace AND beneficial for you and your goals.

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A fresh change of pace I'm ok with. Abyssea was kinda cool. But abyssea didn't destroy Dynamis when it came out. And yes, I'm still having fun, still learning. If I didn't have reasons to be doing Dynamis, I wouldn't be. These changes cause sponsorships to take longer however. Either we stick to 4 CoP runs, ignoring the other 6 zones and getting less currency, or we go to the 6 new zones and... get less currency because they're lowering the drop rate of coins. I scoff at the idea of that being win win.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

BZZZT. We need NEW new content. not new Dynamis content.

Dynamis is specifically for getting the 2nd tier of job specific gear and some fancy weapons. That's all it's for and that's how it should remain.

No one's asking for new assaults or salvage runs, either. To get new stuff we want new content, not old content with new items added.

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I want that content updated too, it is worthless data to have if it is not updated ( ps2 limitation) and further it is worthless to upgrade mythics if you don't. it is counterproductive and a waste of time. Same with dyna my point stands.

see:

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

If SE is counting on people logging more Dynamis hours in order to counteract their lowering of the currency droprate then Dynamis needs new drops to make it appealing for people who don't care about relic or trash AF2.

Let's face it, most of the relic armor is complete trash and nothing you can't get 12 of within 2hrs of city runs. What are you supposed to do then? Most people have dabbled in Dynamis as it is one of the oldest events in the game so unless SE decides to make all those funny named NMs drop new gear or something, this event will be niche like WOE.

Yeah, we need new content but adding some new gear to Dynamis2 in addition to old content would make sense. If this is going to just be a retread easymode Dynamis then one has to ask why bother changing it in the first place.

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I am not the only one saying this, anyone that thinks outside the box of "new = better, new must replace everything old" can see my point and concerns.

look at the changes of some af > af+1 there is a few upgrades that are unquie and cannot be replaced (thf hands, RNG hands) some AF+1 is just used because it is still good ( blu body adds str and dex that is still used wiht phy spells)

the relic > relic +1 did not do that and that can be changed and make dyna a bit more worthwhile if +2 where in place that miniced new bonuses that af+1 did

you cannot have an event that is only for one person! ( or one type of thing, w/e)

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What are you supposed to do then?

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Do another event?

if you're done with an event, it stands to reason that you should move on to something else.

This update is only aimed at solving an ages old problem with dynamis. It's not intended to make people suddenly pounce on it and make it the new "in" thing to do. For that, you should simply wait until we reach the maximum level cap and see what they have in store for us.

You're not doing your argument much credit with what you write. It almost seems like you're arguing against your original point in places.

SE isn't doing this to spur people into producing more currency. i don't get why people think that.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

A fresh change of pace I'm ok with. Abyssea was kinda cool. But abyssea didn't destroy Dynamis when it came out. And yes, I'm still having fun, still learning. If I didn't have reasons to be doing Dynamis, I wouldn't be. These changes cause sponsorships to take longer however. Either we stick to 4 CoP runs, ignoring the other 6 zones and getting less currency, or we go to the 6 new zones and... get less currency because they're lowering the drop rate of coins. I scoff at the idea of that being win win.

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Interest in Dynamis is kinda two-sided nowadays, while interest by the general populace has dwindled there are some aspects that make it still heavily camped largely due to the increased level cap. With the decreased difficulty in dynamis, its much easier for any small group to go in and farm Relic/Currency. You'd be suprised how many times my shell has been locked out of Sandy from a random pickup party going in before/while were gathering. Additionally, Dynamis Lord is much easier than he used to be and there always seems to be a pickup shout for DL in Port Jeuno making it still heavily camped.

Overall I think they're just trying to infuse more interest in, give people a better oppertunity to lowman Dynamis, and try to help people get themselves their shiny Relic AF/Weapon without the need to compete for the zone or spend a considerable amount of time getting a group togeather.

I agree with the above posts that without new content in Dynamis, the idea of revising the system is... well, idiotic. And by content, I mean the shiny stuff you walk out of the zone with. Don't get me wrong, I still completely oppose the changes, but I don't want to see the devs time wasted on something that will be a bigger flop than WoE. Even if they are bulldozing my favorite playground.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Do another event?

if you're done with an event, it stands to reason that you should move on to something else.

This update is only aimed at solving an ages old problem with dynamis. It's not intended to make people suddenly pounce on it and make it the new "in" thing to do. For that, you should simply wait until we reach the maximum level cap and see what they have in store for us.

You're not doing your argument much credit with what you write. It almost seems like you're arguing against your original point in places.

SE isn't doing this to spur people into producing more currency. i don't get why people think that.

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Trying to make me contradict myself does not make your argument better. Counter the argument properly or stop posting, attacks does not help anything (if I am reading this wrong correct me I do not know how I am arguing against myself)

saying SE is fixing an 8 year old problem is stupid, it is a WASTE OF TIME DOING THAT. People have webists and lists and such, I never experence more random entry from people now vs past.

I am not the only one saying dyna needs more purpose then having currency for relic weapons:

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

I agree with the above posts that without new content in Dynamis, the idea of revising the system is... well, idiotic. And by content, I mean the shiny stuff you walk out of the zone with. Don't get me wrong, I still completely oppose the changes, but I don't want to see the devs time wasted on something that will be a bigger flop than WoE. Even if they are bulldozing my favorite playground.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Sounds good, but I'm very worried about certain NMs dropping Time Extension Key Items. If we continue this low-man shift, it's going to be hard to do 2-hour Dynamis runs every night in primetime due 3-6 man groups competing for these NMs.

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Ya...This exactly.

I'm on the fence. I enjoy dynamis the way it is, but some of the new changes sound good, like no more hour glass and no more reservation. Too bad they couldn't leave "old dynamis" the way it is for ppl who enjoy it and the linkshells that still do runs, and make new zones for "new dynamis" for those ppl who are looking forward to the changes, or ppl who don't have a dynamis ls and would like gear. Dynamis - Whitegate sounds awesome!

I was totally expecting new drops and incentives to do do Dynamis, because like many others I wouldn't care half as much about these changes if there weren't any. However, if there ARE additional incentives, then why are dreamlands not included. I'm a bit worried and unsure what to expect.

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Originally Posted by Amoklauf

I was totally expecting new drops and incentives to do do Dynamis, because like many others I wouldn't care half as much about these changes if there weren't any. However, if there ARE additional incentives, then why are dreamlands not included. I'm a bit worried and unsure what to expect.

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Dev probably just testing the idea first, so having CoP as alternative don't ruin the entire dynamis style. (is my guess) So i am guessing CoP will follow the change depend on everyone reaction about this change. (Maybe in 6 month)

Sad part imo is they could have change CoP zone instead normal one, doubt anyone would have care about that... (I'm not a Dream zone lover)

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Originally Posted by Ilax

Dev probably just testing the idea first, so having CoP as alternative don't ruin the entire dynamis style. (is my guess) So i am guessing CoP will follow the change depend on everyone reaction about this change. (Maybe in 6 month)

Sad part imo is they could have change CoP zone instead normal one, doubt anyone would have care about that... (I'm not a Dream zone lover)

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Of course your not.. they don't drop a ton of currency to sell >_>

CoP only "doesn't drop a ton of currency" because the time limit was shorter. Every time I did it, we got plenty of currency on a per mob basis (except in Tavnazia). Thse numbers posted earlier are suspect to me. Tavnazia has the lowest rates; but the other three my group had very good numbers on (Mainly Bubirimu since that one offers the most farming time)

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But abyssea didn't destroy Dynamis when it came out.

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Felt like I needed to go back and address this. Dynamis was destroyed by Abyssea. Not overnight, but by Scars' release. Visions didn't have the empyrean stuff (except 1 accessory) yet, so it didn't cancel one of the reasons for dynamis.

If they don't up the difficulty of the NM's and mobs in the dynamis zones...

I don't forsee a problem with people overcamping NM's... because they will probably die really quick...

However it does bring up a good point.. people could try to grief or w/e by holding a time extension NM or a zone boss / attestation NM.

So maybe have the "Confrontation" status only last 10~15 mins and the NM despawn after that automatically.

Nothing in dynamis ever took more than a few minutes to kill. It's not going to be a problem.
Greifers can be reported via GM call.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Nothing in dynamis ever took more than a few minutes to kill. It's not going to be a problem.
Greifers can be reported via GM call.

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They can be reported.. I think the GM's just prefer it if there is a system in place already to take care of griefers or people taking a really long time.

Be it a rage system like HNM's or things automatically depopping like vnm's... less they have to get involved in people's gameplay the better imo.

Name given is Dynamis Reborn. Meaning, it was either dead or dying. It makes no sense to complain for the company to try to revive it. Just because it's open to more people doesn't make it "like" abyssea. Even still, there's more people in abyssea than dynamis. One could conclude that it being more like abyssea wouldn't be a bad thing then.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Felt like I needed to go back and address this. Dynamis was destroyed by Abyssea. Not overnight, but by Scars' release. Visions didn't have the empyrean stuff (except 1 accessory) yet, so it didn't cancel one of the reasons for dynamis.

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Well, my interest in Dynamis died long before Abyssea. Relic gear has always been macro-gear. The number of Dynamis pieces that have been straight out-classed by Abyssea gear is pretty low. If anything, Abyssea and porter moogles have increased the demand for Dynamis gear because so many people have leveled more jobs than they would have imagined possible before Abyssea. I'm not sure any of the AF2 gear for my jobs has been outdated by AF3+2. If anything, the argument to make would be that Abyssea has promoted sloppy gameplay and the minor difference that the relic gear has always made isn't seen as very important in a 5000-damage WS/75% crit rate game.

RDM AF2 - Head is still for idle, body still for Fast Cast. Everything has its niche still.
BLM AF2 - Hands for Dark Magic, Legs for day bonus. Then and now.
DNC AF2 - Hands are the only piece I don't carry on me, and that hasn't changed from before I got AF3+2
WAR AF2 - Legs were quasi-useful before, and that was only if you lacked the superior alternatives. That's still true, and the superior alternatives are still superior. I still carry Mask.
BRD AF2 - Head is still good for debuffing. Body is still good for lolBRDdding. Legs have been outclassed by essentially everything. Feet and Hands suck.
SMN AF2 - yo dawg i herd u leik BP delay.
BST AF2 - I have it, but I can't honestly say I'm a serious enough BST to use it (or really make macros). AF2 feet are still useful. AF2 body is as useful as it has ever been. Head is maybe outdated.

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Originally Posted by Miiyo

Name given is Dynamis Reborn. Meaning, it was either dead or dying. It makes no sense to complain for the company to try to revive it. Just because it's open to more people doesn't make it "like" abyssea. Even still, there's more people in abyssea than dynamis. One could conclude that it being more like abyssea wouldn't be a bad thing then.

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My problem isn't making the zone more accessible nor do I care if people get my precious (lol) relic armor drops. Anyone whining that someone can actually get stuff like Duelist's Chapeau post-patch is just whining to whine. It's a great piece but it is nothing that hundreds don't already have. The stuff is level 75 for crying out loud.

The problem is that SE has announced that they have completely changed Dynamis from a dungeon crawl to an open world where you go in, get TEs, kill monsters for currency and relic armor and that certain monsters have changed to be more accessible but absolutely nothing has changed with regards to new objectives or challenges.

So basically, this gives people an option to get extremely aged gear (which is fine) yet adds nothing new of substance to the collective game. Maybe it's just me but that seems like a sore waste of resources in a game starving for new content now that Abyssea has crushed everything.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

Well, my interest in Dynamis died long before Abyssea. Relic gear has always been macro-gear. The number of Dynamis pieces that have been straight out-classed by Abyssea gear is pretty low. If anything, Abyssea and porter moogles have increased the demand for Dynamis gear because so many people have leveled more jobs than they would have imagined possible before Abyssea. I'm not sure any of the AF2 gear for my jobs has been outdated by AF3+2. If anything, the argument to make would be that Abyssea has promoted sloppy gameplay and the minor difference that the relic gear has always made isn't seen as very important in a 5000-damage WS/75% crit rate game.

RDM AF2 - Head is still for idle, body still for Fast Cast. Everything has its niche still.
BLM AF2 - Hands for Dark Magic, Legs for day bonus. Then and now.
DNC AF2 - Hands are the only piece I don't carry on me, and that hasn't changed from before I got AF3+2
WAR AF2 - Legs were quasi-useful before, and that was only if you lacked the superior alternatives. That's still true, and the superior alternatives are still superior. I still carry Mask.
BRD AF2 - Head is still good for debuffing. Body is still good for lolBRDdding. Legs have been outclassed by essentially everything. Feet and Hands suck.
SMN AF2 - yo dawg i herd u leik BP delay.
BST AF2 - I have it, but I can't honestly say I'm a serious enough BST to use it (or really make macros). AF2 feet are still useful. AF2 body is as useful as it has ever been. Head is maybe outdated.

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It is getting harder and harder to keep using sorcs legs, now its 3 int and 5% vs 7 MAB. I am going to assume 5% i better still, however the amount is not as much then with past gear. You also have the issue of double weather +day, then you are noly getting 3 int. WHM feet got replaced, WHM legs is hard to say, added chance for bonus vs 20 bar circle.

oh and MB bonus gear does not cap relic blm hands can be used for mbs.

SMN hands +1 Are still XDXDXD (maybe it can still used in some BP macros, siphon macro)

I have played this card myself before, however the general reactions don't take it in well, even though it is still worthwhile macro gear the question becomes what do i went to spend my time on? most people will tell you they want abyssea and to do thier emp weapons and gear over getting the old macro gear.

SCH uses a lot of af and relic gear macros and im still missing pants myself but you are nuts if you expect me to say "hey guys can we do some bastok so i can get SCH pants"? I would most likely be accused of thinking only about myself, and be told to do abyssea. I would agree that would be the case too since it is not worth people farming for someone to get 7 dark magic skill.


so yeah you are technically right but it being in the question what do i want to spend my time on, or what is the best way to spend my time?

that would mean never tuching dyna again ( and i really hate this I would like to do dyna just to get off doing abyssea day after day)

I would like new reasons to do dyna, savage ( loose the crap drop rates though), assault , limbus, so on for something different then how abyssea works.

That will never happen till the content is updated, there is a huge drawback raising the level cap after 7 years and that is rebalance everything and SE did not raise to that challenge yet.

I liked how the different events gave us different challenges and i only rage quit one of them. That would be savage after a year seeing the droprates.

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Originally Posted by Sparthos

My problem isn't making the zone more accessible nor do I care if people get my precious (lol) relic armor drops. Anyone whining that someone can actually get stuff like Duelist's Chapeau post-patch is just whining to whine. It's a great piece but it is nothing that hundreds don't already have. The stuff is level 75 for crying out loud.

The problem is that SE has announced that they have completely changed Dynamis from a dungeon crawl to an open world where you go in, get TEs, kill monsters for currency and relic armor and that certain monsters have changed to be more accessible but absolutely nothing has changed with regards to new objectives or challenges.

So basically, this gives people an option to get extremely aged gear (which is fine) yet adds nothing new of substance to the collective game. Maybe it's just me but that seems like a sore waste of resources in a game starving for new content now that Abyssea has crushed everything.

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I do not understand loling at 75 gear ( game is still 75 if you ask me, and i am still using a level 47 earring, 51 weapons, and so on) but i have a question for you, would you upgrade all the past instance contant so we have more to do then abyssea?

or you just want "new" stuff and forget the old? then that stuff needs to be deleated ( ps2limtation) and we can have lots of new things.

If anything, the blame to go to abyssea for pointing out that we play mostly for gear. There's only so many ways you can reinvent that fact when you create a low amount of good gear. It's a simple matter to please everyone.

Point distribution and at least 5 pieces of the "best" gear. Spread it out. Give a little story to go with each. Everyone is displeased with abyssea now because everyone is striving for the same things. It's why everyone was dissatisfied at level 75. Making one piece of gear, far surpass others is a death trap. Allowing players to choose one set over another and then even further customize it to their playing style (what EVOLITH should have done), would provide a more enjoyable experience. Plus you get to compare and if you see something better you like, you are more opt to go and try out another piece.

Let's use an example. at level 99, there are 10 different body pieces you have to choose. All spread out over dynamis, sea, einherjar, all areas of the game. Each area including a little updated story. Furthermore, updating evolith and getting rid of the scenerio-specific stats they had. Stats with +3 str, +2 haste, +5 mnd. Stats that will really seperate you from the rest of the melee. Would that not be more exciting than joining the rest of the 1000 mnks on the server going after af3. Give more options and you have more trial and experimenting to do.

Sorry but I as soon as I start fighting a mob, I forget about what any other party is doing. I like having conversations between fights, but what does it matter if anyone else is in the zone.

TE means you're limited. You can't spend all your time in dyna or abyssea. I don't see how that's a bad thing. You're forced to go to other zones.

Abyssea didn't crush anything. It gave us somethnig to do when we were desperate to get rid of the days of shouting in wg for hours. Abyssea pwns spam shouting for a party for hours any day. I can ALWAYS go solo something in Abyssea and it'd be worthwhile. You have tons of jobs you can build up. All thanks to abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

CoP only "doesn't drop a ton of currency" because the time limit was shorter. Every time I did it, we got plenty of currency on a per mob basis (except in Tavnazia). Thse numbers posted earlier are suspect to me. Tavnazia has the lowest rates; but the other three my group had very good numbers on (Mainly Bubirimu since that one offers the most farming time)

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Those numbers are suspect to you because they don't back up your feelings on the subject. You have a feeling based on your previous experiences in Dynamis, I have numbers because I run the linkshell and I keep records of the runs for every sponsor ever since I changed the system. If you choose not to believe my numbers, then let us consider the reasons that CoP runs drop fewer coins instead.

1. Nightmare creatures, aside from the ones in Tavnazia, are incapable of dropping a hundred-piece of currency, therefore, hundred pieces are less common.

2. In order to get the time extension, you must defeat the boss (again, aside from Tavnazia). In order to defeat the boss, you must weaken it by killing sub bosses. Sub bosses are stronger than normal enemies in the zone and therefore take longer to defeat. Sub bosses do not drop currency.

3. Spawn density is lower in CoP zones. That is to say, you must spend more time running between kills than you would have to in city zones.

4. Enemies in CoP zones are generally stronger and have more debillitating abilities because the zones were released at a later time and therefore designed for players with merits and more complete equipment. From sheeps 30' sheep song in Valkurm to mandragoras 15' nightmare in buburimu- the creatures are just plain tougher.

5. Movement patterns of enemies in CoP are generally wander patterns, unlike cities where everything follows a pre-set path. The chaotic wandering makes it harder to control pulls to the level desired so you more frequently wind up with more enemies or less enemies than are optimal for your group at the time.

6. Nightmare creatures can drop a maximum of 3 coins. City mobs (not stones) can drop a maximum of 4. Hydra corps in Beaucedine can drop a maximum of 6 coins.


So what this all means is that you can kill more mobs in a city zone in 2 hours than you can kill in 2 hours in a dreamland zone, AND city mobs are capable of dropping more single pieces than nightmare mobs, AND there are more chances for a hundo in cities than in CoP zones.

If you still hold your belief that CoP zones are as good for currency as city zones, then I guess the only tool I have left is to point out that you admitted to quitting Dynamis previously in this thread, whereas I have been doing it nonstop for more than half a decade. But for the sake of argument, let's say that I'm wrong about all of this and CoP runs are actually better for currency per hour than cities are. There's still the problem that city runs are better currency PER GIL by a magnitude of about 300%, which means this update will slow my sponsors down to 1/3 their upgrade rate and increase the cost of them completing a relic threefold if I stick to only CoP runs.

If the two systems work with difference admittance principles, think we'll be able to do both? Like, CoP Dynamis twice a week and old-zone Dynamis 7 times a week?

Could be relevant if they introduce AF2+2 and it's awesome.

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

If they don't up the difficulty of the NM's and mobs in the dynamis zones...

I don't forsee a problem with people overcamping NM's... because they will probably die really quick...

However it does bring up a good point.. people could try to grief or w/e by holding a time extension NM or a zone boss / attestation NM.

So maybe have the "Confrontation" status only last 10~15 mins and the NM despawn after that automatically.

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The better option would be to simply allow for multiple copies of the same confrontation to be active at the same time. Some people would hold the NM to grief, others might hold just because they're honestly having a rough go of it. Best to avoid the situation altogether if possible.

That would be ideal.. I'm just not sure if its possible with the way ffxi is made

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

The better option would be to simply allow for multiple copies of the same confrontation to be active at the same time. Some people would hold the NM to grief, others might hold just because they're honestly having a rough go of it. Best to avoid the situation altogether if possible.

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Very doubtful that multiple confrontations will happen, even though it's a good idea.

If they don't allow for multiple confrontations, then crowding becomes a severe issue. You can't see how bad the crowd is at the particular NM you want until you enter. If you enter, you can't switch zones until the next day. If the crowd is bad enough, it's conceivable that you could spend your entire hour trying to pop the extension NM and never getting the chance.

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

If they don't allow for multiple confrontations, then crowding becomes a severe issue. You can't see how bad the crowd is at the particular NM you want until you enter. If you enter, you can't switch zones until the next day. If the crowd is bad enough, it's conceivable that you could spend your entire hour trying to pop the extension NM and never getting the chance.

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Thats why I'm suggesting the NM's despawn after 10~15 mins...

It shouldn't take that long to kill a lvl 80ish NM with a lvl 90+ group of people ;o

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Originally Posted by Yinnyth

The better option would be to simply allow for multiple copies of the same confrontation to be active at the same time. Some people would hold the NM to grief, others might hold just because they're honestly having a rough go of it. Best to avoid the situation altogether if possible.

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Abyssea needs this as is and i do see it being a problem in new dyna, stuff like this IS needed.

I think the only COP area that can be ok on currecy is tav (more chance of 100), CoP zones for the most part are a lost of money ( glass vs what currecy sells for)

shocked someone sparked such a debate

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Originally Posted by Rambus

I do not understand loling at 75 gear ( game is still 75 if you ask me, and i am still using a level 47 earring, 51 weapons, and so on) but i have a question for you, would you upgrade all the past instance contant so we have more to do then abyssea?

or you just want "new" stuff and forget the old? then that stuff needs to be deleated ( ps2limtation) and we can have lots of new things.

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I didn't say anything about removing old content to make way for the new. Simply if SE is deciding to redo Dynamis that level 90+ players should be taken into consideration in addition to making the old content doable for smaller groups. I lol @75 gear because frankly most of the relic is macro only and most of the pieces are just pure trash.

There is no reason you can't satisfy both groups and having the zone serve a dual purpose. Relic chasers would benefit from a zone where people work on lvl95 gear and get currency on the side.

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Originally Posted by Miiyo

Abyssea didn't crush anything. It gave us somethnig to do when we were desperate to get rid of the days of shouting in wg for hours. Abyssea pwns spam shouting for a party for hours any day. I can ALWAYS go solo something in Abyssea and it'd be worthwhile. You have tons of jobs you can build up. All thanks to abyssea.

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Yet the game cannot rest on Abyssea alone. Tons of content lay dead and the game will get boring when only 9 zones matter. Abyssea was great, it got people interested XI again but the game needs more to survive and with the pace that Abyssea made new challenges available (every ~3months), the game simply cannot afford to return to the style of updates that plagued 2009.

If anything, the new patches will need to be better now we've had a taste of what exactly quality content is. Standards have risen.

Personally, I hope the new mobs within Dynamis aren't level 90+. Part of that is because, yes, it will be some element of chasing old gear, but also the more difficult you make them, the more likely you risk forcing people to seek larger groups where the inequities that entails can surface.

That said, incentive to enter even if you have all your relic gear needs to be present. Maybe we'll be blown away by the tweak of relic weapon requirements and it'd be something like 5000 currency total to complete one, but that's being optimistic. Realistically, we could anticipate trials involving the zones, potential new drops, or even the currency itself. I know I've mused over the possibility of combining all our various AF combinations into a single piece, and that could very well be possible if SE deemed a means to +2 everything or something as a pre-req, but we obviously know it won't happen until it does, if ever.

Besides, there's still some element of the random number generator involved that makes Dynamis less appealing than Abyssea on the whole. Nobody wants 20 BST when you need at least one RDM, BLM, or whatever. I guess if they keep job-specific NMs with higher rates and more readily popped, you can kind of get around that, but it also risks congestion issues just like Abyssea's Gukumatz, Amun, and so on if it's found that something in particular is the sole source of something good.

I guess it could be interesting if they added another currency like cruor, ichor, allied notes, and so on that you'd get after killing mobs in the zone. It'd allow them to slip later level options into the reward scheme without presenting as much of a risk of saturation. Could even tie Relic trials into it much like how some magian weapons needed things from Dominion and Bastion.