NEO Nyzul 2.0

But it's not entirely luck. If you go with terrible players, you won't win no matter how lucky you get.

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Originally Posted by detlef

But it's not entirely luck. If you go with terrible players, you won't win no matter how lucky you get.

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It would be funny if they switched this event to entirely being based on skill, so I could watch all of the haters still not try to do it and do nothing but complain about it. （´・ω・｀）
The simple truth is that if you try doing this event, and youre not terrible at FFXI, and you can find 5 other people who are not terrible at FFXI, you will win, and you will get all the gear.

The same can be said of killing VWNMs, if you have a VW party and don't suck you can kill the NMs with ease, luck can screw you no matter your skill however with bad procs. Fight Kalasutrax where 5/7 NQ procs are jobs you don't have. 2/3 HQs are procs you don't have. And EV is Ice WHM. You can be skilled, but chances are you are going to die no matter what you do. There is a ratio between luck and skill, with most groups it seems to be 70%Luck/30%Skill how they talk, by my experience, its about 50%/50%. You sound as though it is 20%/80%, very different from everyone here. More skill you have less luck you need, luck will always matter in a way though because there are completely horrid floors, and terrible, terrible jumps.

Luckily you can /fume your EV ice whm away now eh? Also, I don't see how it's relevant to Nyzul.

Blame bad floors all you want. They suck, after all. Hate on gears, hate on pathos. We all hate them. But don't blame bad jumps. Bad jumps even out. One day you get terrible jumps. The next day you get incredible jumps. Have you done the event for any extended period of time? You should judge your run based on how many floors you cleared, not whether you hit 100. The more floors you clear, the more successful you'll be over time.

Luck is still a big factor of course. But one day, the gods will smile on you and it will all come together. You just have to keep at it so you can be there to answer the call when they do.

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Originally Posted by detlef

Luckily you can /fume your EV ice whm away now eh? Also, I don't see how it's relevant to Nyzul.

Blame bad floors all you want. They suck, after all. Hate on gears, hate on pathos. We all hate them. But don't blame bad jumps. Bad jumps even out. One day you get terrible jumps. The next day you get incredible jumps. Have you done the event for any extended period of time? You should judge your run based on how many floors you cleared, not whether you hit 100. The more floors you clear, the more successful you'll be over time.

Luck is still a big factor of course. But one day, the gods will smile on you and it will all come together. You just have to keep at it so you can be there to answer the call when they do.

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I was using the VW thing as an example of something else where you can be skilled, but luck can still kill you and leave you with nothing.

I know jumps even out somewhat, point is there are many things luck based in it, not just 1 or 2 but the entire thing from start to finish is influenced by luck at every turn. In my runs I have done of NNI best I have done is floor 97 with my old static, my new static only has done 2 runs so far only person with previous experience being me and we hit 67 on the 2nd go which I think is fairly good seeing as there was 1 person in the group with an Emp and great gear, everyone else being in +1/2 with AH or Abyssea weapons.

I don't plan on giving up the event because if I did would just mean I wasted my time up till then, same thing if I gave up with anything else, stop half way on something and you only wasted your time getting that far, make it to the end and at least you completed it.

What setup are you using?

Old static was DRK, DRK, THF, SAM, SCH, SCH, I think. New one is DRK, WAR, SAM, BLU, SCH, SCH.

NNI is 80/20 for luck / skill. The only "skill" involved is the harsh learning (or relearning) period where you get comfortable with communication and boss / floor types. After that there is absolutely nothing skill will do for you anymore, its down to pure jumps, floor layout and objectives. 5 order lamps will kill your run dead unless your using secret ninja techniques. WS restriction on a boss floor or any floor other then lamps can kill your run. And there is nothing you can do about either of those.

Best set up is 4 2hand DD with 99 relics(Not DRG), or Emp/Mythic, and 2 SCH.

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Originally Posted by Natenn

Best set up is 4 2hand DD with 99 relics(Not DRG), or Emp/Mythic, and 2 SCH.

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I'm breaking with my policy of not replying to blatant trolls. Seeing as this post wasn't a troll attempt then it's fair to reply.

What you said it horribly wrong, damage isn't nearly as big an issue as people make it out to be. It's communication and quick decision making skills that will win you (or secret ninja techniques) the run.

Our setup originally was

Rag DRK (me)
Rag DRK
Ukon WAR
DRG (level 99 AH lance)
SCH (good gear, not 500 enhancing though)
SCH (not that great gear, sat at the runic lamp to go up)

And we would struggle, not from lack of damage but from the stupid stuff SE would throw at you. Running around floors looking for lamps or singleing out the the monsters on special family floors gets you tons of adds that leech time, or with a random NM or two can actually kill your DD's. So we reformulated our strategy a bit, now our group is

Rag DRK
Almace BLU/WAR (me)
DRG (same as earlier)
Ukkon WAR
SCH
SCH

And our runs suddenly got much smoother. Myself having access to a good sang blade build along with my CDC set, physical spells and the occasional dream flower (pesky adds) actually sped up our event and raised our clear rate. BLU spells are not subject to WS restriction and having multiple sources of damage is a god send for flan, jelly and NM floors.

NNI is not a zerg event, throwing more damage will not get you more wins. Most of the monsters are trash EP-DC's, not IT+ juggernauts. Even the floor 80/100 boss's die ridiculously fast. Now don't bring a party of gimps or weak players, if they aren't at an above average gear level then their not going to be contributing much. You can't carry people through NNI, but you don't need relic DRG/WAR/SAM x 4 onry!! to win either. The only jobs I would think are absolutely restricted are PUP, SMN and the various support mages (sorry this event is SCH x 2 or bust, embrava is absolutely required). Otherwise SAM/WAR/NIN/BLU/DRG/NIN/DRK should all work ... and possibly a well geared BST who isn't pissing around. Obviously they can't be pink NIN's or pearl BST's, need better then average gear but otherwise they'll be fine. Thought at least two purely heavy DD at a minimum.

Communication and coordination is worth more then any amount of gear, calling out the location of lamps and having people rapidly move to them, being able to quickly MGS your way past mobs to get to a lamp in the back corner, or to get to a specified family monster (while avoiding unnecessary time sinks) is essential. You'll spend more time moving around then you do fighting.

I see alot of player comes with kikugosaku widowmaker and most ppl dont wana spend gil to buy powder boots they dont have set of temp items and they dont listen most like "dont tell me what to do" type of ppl

You can't downplay the 'skill' involved then say perle/pink dds aren't winning it no matter how hard they try. Having skilled and well geared players is going to raise your chances of winning due to clearing kill all/specified floors faster. It simply doesn't help with lamps/pathos.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

You can't downplay the skill involved then say perle/pink dds aren't winning it no matter how hard they try. Having skilled and well geared players is going to raise your chances of winning due to clearing kill all/specified floors faster. It simply doesn't help with lamps/pathos.

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You made the classic mistake of confusing "skill" with "gear". An idiot with an augmented HQ Adaberk and a 99 Rag is still an idiot and will cause you to fail. You also made both straw-man and false dichotomy fallacies. Stop trolling for confrontation.

I never said there wasn't "any" skill, only that there isn't much skill once your past the initial learning curve. Once you get moving through floors down it's all luck. Moving through floors isn't hard, its just learning which NM is which and how to rapidly scan through mobs to determine the specified enemy / leader / family. Learning how to quickly move through rooms and identify lamps and call them out. Of course lamps in general suck, an 5-lamp order floor will pretty much instantly sink your 100 run (without ninja techniques).

I also said that you don't need extreme damage, aka 4 super relic DD's. The four melee's you do bring must be well geared as there is a damage threshold you must meet. Going beyond that won't help you much as your bottleneck becomes movement and not damage. See my above example, going from a Rag DRK to a Almace BLU is a step down in raw damage power. The additional utility and multiple damage types gained by doing that was worth more then the loss in raw damage. Bringing along a DRG is less pure damage then another DRK / WAR / MNK, yet it also brings a damage type that neither DRK nor WAR tend to have, piercing. Your single biggest damage block will be the multitude of flans and jelly's you end up having to fight. Those are the mobs that will slow your DRK's, MNKs and WAR's down but a DRG (or any piercing melee) tears them apart. Thus right when your two heaviest DD's lose their offensive edge, your lessor DD suddenly gains it which results in faster kills. Of course the damage increase from a 5/5 Angon with augmented relic +2 isn't to be trifled with on the NMs. That evil PDT flan everyone hates, our WAR chunks a 5/5 hawk with augmented +2 relic right as we engage, it dies within 10 ~ 15 seconds (depending on our TP).

Its those things that people need to learn to do. Adjust your tactics based on whatever F8cked up sh!t that SE throws at you.

No, I didn't really. Knowing how to gear oneself is apart of skill. It doesn't matter how much you believe in happiness and rainbows, you still acknowledge subpar dds are not clearing nyzul at all.

How is finishing the objective faster not helping... There is movespeed gear/powder boots/sprinter's for increased speed and many strats tend to leave a sch at rune or have one person with movespeed+powder on the ready anyway.

Drg still won't be very useful or desired for Nyzul, nor will Nin. Sam can bring piercing if you're that adamant about bringing it.

Both mnk and war can bypass the damage resistance of slimes.

EDIT: Please post this list of common monsters in nyzul weak to piercing that won't be felled in a matter of seconds from slashing damage. There isn't anything particularly special about piercing that warrants having to bring it.

I think Pup can contribute about the same as a mnk lol. Don't go draggin them down haha. Pup destroy fodder mobs alot faster than mnk. I use both with all the best gear except thaumas, and pup destroys.

#1: Create a option to automatically go "up ??? after an objective is completed" that we can "turn off/on", then we can turn off when we're so close to a Boss floor. then this will become "the time" wherein we'll need to go back to Rune to active it. (Sprinter's drink)

#2: Remove order/same time lamps and their horrid 30sec cooldown.

#3: wake up Square Enix; we all (Company + players) need more players. Neo Nyzul is the kind of event that will make people take a break to wait for new gears. /waitforseekersofadoulin type of thing.

This is my input, we really need to do with 6 ppl and not with 5 :)

DRG is actually amazing in Neo Nyzul. I'm 15/15 on the gear and I went exclusively DRG. Jumps for instant TP, Stardiver does like 2.5-3k+ to most mobs, Angon is amazingly useful for Leaders or Bosses, can restoring breath for 1k-1.5k instantly when melees are in trouble and the SCH is out of range or silenced, Smiting Breath does almost 2k to Flans if you have Empathy/EXP bonus on the Wyvern, close to 3k with Deep Breathing, Ancient Circle rocks for Wyvern/Puk/Dahak floors, can Super Jump over Tribulation/Boss's Stun moves/Amnesia so when you land you'll be the only non-impaired DD to either finish the mob off or use a Cleric's Drink. Did I mention the Wyvern has pretty decent DPS on DC mobs? Hien was hitting for 100-120 to most mobs.

I advocate 3 two handers, 2 schs and a BLU. BLU is really useful for the following reasons:

1) With Almace they pull off 2-3k CDCs easy.
2) Dream Flower gears/adds on lamp floors or NMs that might be problematic(Waraxe Beak) without making the SCH have to shift Addendums(annoying/waste of strategem if Enlightenment isn't up)
3) Self SC CDC>Amorphic is like 6-7k burst of damage.
4) CA QC does like 4k
5) BLU can run up to a cluster of mobs and CA/Efflux Whirl of Rage for 2.5k aoe+long stun.
6) Sudden Lunge is like a 12 second stun, amazing for Soulflayers/Chariots
7) Delta Thrust's -10TP/tick plague is amazing for leaders/bosses
8) While other DDs are hitting for 80 and doing 500 dmg ws to Cardamom Custard, BLU can spam 4-5k Requiescats.
9) Can oneshot most trash mobs with a Heavy Strike or a few swings+Delta Thrust.
10) Winds of Promyvion is indispensable, 2 second cast AoE Erase for almost no MP, saves the SCH strategems. Amazing for removing Soulflayer's Bio or Chariot's Bindga.

I can't even begin on how wrong some of those statements are.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

I can't even begin on how wrong some of those statements are.

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Care to elaborate which?

Seeing as I've been doing Neo Nyzul for about 3 months for my LS and we always go with BLU I can attest to each and every one of those being true. BLU damage on DC mobs is outrageous. 2k CDC into 3k CAflux Amorphic into 3k Darkness is just rape against Frogs/Chariots. Dream Flower is amazing on lamp floors where you want to just sleep a cluster of mobs without wasting time to kill them, for SCH to do that they have to switch from Add:White to Add:Dark and then use Manifestation(total loss of 3 strategems, Add:black(1), manifestation(1), changing back to add white(1)) BLU is self sufficient with Sanguine Blade, and Requiescat is really the best for Mousses which Catastrophe/Ukko's Fury does like 800-1kish on but Req does over 2k against. We usually leave the Mousses to the BLU. And cardamom custard, the one NM that can cripple your group's time if not prepared, BLU makes short work of. We go with DRK DRG BLU SCH SCH WAR and though the DRK has Twilight Scythe, it's not enough since his WS is gimp against that NM. The BLU will pop a fanatics(since Amorphic Scythe can do well over 2k and kill the BLU) and spam Requiescats for 4-5k(Cardamom custard has massive resistance (75-80%) against blunt/slashing/piercing but for some reason requiescat/twilight scythe get a damage bonus against it, so you'll see Twilight Scythe hitting for 500-600 and Req hitting for 5kish.

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Originally Posted by Ica

Care to elaborate which?

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Some of the statements were a wee bit over advertised, but all in all Ophannus is correct. BLU is a very useful addition to a Nyzul team. The damage is nowhere near the same as for heavy DDs, but still more than enough for most of the trash mobs along the way. Combine that with its general usefulness and the overall lower impact of kill speed in the event itself (as most of the time sinks are not kill speed but running) and BLU is a very useful job for it. I've done all my successful runs with a BLU, though, so I may be biased in that regard. Then again, that could be taken as a hint towards its usefulness.

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Originally Posted by Ophannus

I advocate 3 two handers, 2 schs and a BLU. BLU is really useful for the following reasons:

1) With Almace they pull off 2-3k CDCs easy.
2) Dream Flower gears/adds on lamp floors or NMs that might be problematic(Waraxe Beak) without making the SCH have to shift Addendums(annoying/waste of strategem if Enlightenment isn't up)
3) Self SC CDC>Amorphic is like 6-7k burst of damage.
4) CA QC does like 4k
5) BLU can run up to a cluster of mobs and CA/Efflux Whirl of Rage for 2.5k aoe+long stun.
6) Sudden Lunge is like a 12 second stun, amazing for Soulflayers/Chariots
7) Delta Thrust's -10TP/tick plague is amazing for leaders/bosses
8) While other DDs are hitting for 80 and doing 500 dmg ws to Cardamom Custard, BLU can spam 4-5k Requiescats.
9) Can oneshot most trash mobs with a Heavy Strike or a few swings+Delta Thrust.
10) Winds of Promyvion is indispensable, 2 second cast AoE Erase for almost no MP, saves the SCH strategems. Amazing for removing Soulflayer's Bio or Chariot's Bindga.

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Although his numbers are a bit overblown, in general these are valid reasons.

BLU/WAR with

DW III
5% TA
MAB I (Dream Flower + 1 pt)
Store TP
Auto Refresh (WoP + A.Burst)
Store TP I (SL + 1 pt)
Self Haste / Refresh and M.Fruit set (all emergency use spells)

Then all the goodies from /WAR and some Bison Steak. Makes for a powerful DD on trash mobs and a good DD on the boss's. BLU's strength is that it destroys trash mobs and can on demand put out extremely high spike damage, though at the expensive of blowing their MP. That spike damage has saved us on "WS Restricted" floors and on really stupid enemy leaders / boss's. SL's stun effect lasts a ridiculous amount of time and makes many NM's much easier to deal with.

Another interesting note is Diffusion Haste during initial embrava. Regardless of what the blowhards like to say, putting up haste is a PITA for SCH's, the spell has a long cast / recast and melees do not stand still. I found that doing an aoe diffusion wail when their doing their embrava allows everyone to immediately take off. Let the SCH's know when it's got 1min left and they'll start cycling Perp haste regularly on our four members without needing to blow a ton of stratagems for cast / recast down. It's really just a time saver. 6 Min aoe haste at 5/5, 7:15 aoe haste at 5/5 with augmented relic feet. Cast nearly instantly and during the time when everyone is together and the SCH is doing embrava.

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The damage is nowhere near the same as for heavy DDs, but still more than enough for most of the trash mobs along the way.

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I can argue against that. On anything T or less a BLU/WAR with CDC will hang with the big guys. Its only on VT+ when they leave the BLU behind. Seeing as NNI is populated almost entirely with DC mobs, that puts BLU near the big guns for most of the run, with the heavy guys blowing the boss's apart.

Of course this assumes your BLU's actually know what their doing and have decent gear sets.

Have to back the utility of blu also (and the fact that it was slightly overblown in output, but not laughably so). Where a Restricted WS floor will leave your 2handers at a disadvantage the blu (well geared and appropriate swapping of gear) will fill in for the lack of damage at the cost of mp, which they can then regain on other floors or by use of temp item should they get any at start. Most mobs are easily considered "trash mobs" due to conning DC with very few giving much of any trouble, but I would suggest you be sure the person playing the blu knows what is expected and is geared for it first.

Platinum astrarium won't stack. Learned it the hard way!

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Originally Posted by Stan64

Platinum astrarium won't stack. Learned it the hard way!

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...wow, that sucks >< lesson learned I guess.

Bumping this thread to say that I started doing Neo Nyzul for my mage mule, and to put my money where my mouth is I even live streamed it and recorded it. So now I have this awesome video from last night saved on my PC where I won 2 of the 3 runs we did without cheating. So now the question is: Will Pchan pay up? Do I need to do anything else? There were other people watching as I did it. Do I need to find an editing program and crop out like 6 hours of video so I can have the 3 nyzul runs together, then speeding them up so I can post them to youtube? (youtube has a 10 min video length max unless your videos get tons of views or something) So how about it Pchan? Wheres my marrows? Am I getting 10 instead of 5 since I won 2 in a row also?

My mage mule has also officially been inside neo nyzul 8 times now and won 3 times. But I dont really count 2 of those losses since they weren't with the people I normally go with.

I don't see no video, also since the thread is bumped I encourage anyone to rate up nyzul related suggestion in the dev thread. Like on the first page, there is mdkuser's suggestion that has gotten 120 "likes" which is one of the most (+1) in the thread.

rate up this post : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post352780

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I want 16 macro lines

I want some progression system for nyzul isle instead . Remove lamps all together and "penalities" for gear aggro

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

I don't see no video, also since the thread is bumped I encourage anyone to rate up nyzul related suggestion in the dev thread. Like on the first page, there is mdkuser's suggestion that has gotten 120 "likes" which is one of the most (+1) in the thread.

rate up this post : http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post352780

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You should of been watching my live stream, but you're saying you will give me 5 marrows after I upload the video?

EDIT, tell you what, I can stream the video right now for you if you want to watch it =3

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Except I highlight the lamp in two or three of the runs, and even click one of them! You just havent seen those runs yet since it takes forever to crop them and stuff. You also didnt say what role was required to receive the marrows, and Im not sitting at the rune the whole time, and all lamps were same time the whole series of attempts, except 1 order, and 1 code, during all 3 runs. Keep making excuses for why you can't afford to pay what you said you would pchan.

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Actually, fail2troll, if you read the thread entirely, it was said repeatedly to NOT be a pole-sitter. Of course, it was also said to "post" it, rather than stream it, but having to pay attention to details and not make up your own rules as you go along isn't really your forte.

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Originally Posted by Llana_Virren

Actually, fail2troll, if you read the thread entirely, it was said repeatedly to NOT be a pole-sitter. Of course, it was also said to "post" it, rather than stream it, but having to pay attention to details and not make up your own rules as you go along isn't really your forte.

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One of the runs is already on youtube, another is uploading now, but then knowing whats going on was never your forte either!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaJxCQ1T8M&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7pA7QTGb1k&feature=plcp

Seriously. 3 runs of 3, 4 f100 wins, 5 pieces of gear for my mule. If you guys just go do the event, you can win pretty easily if you're not terrible and make the correct decisions.

I think next time I do some runs, rather than stream it, which basically forces me to use lower quality, I'm going to just record it in high quality. Then overlay it with myself talking and explaining in depth the thought process while playing and the correct way to do things.

There is no lamp order floor in your video, which is something I asked. It's funny that an idiot known server wide to be the master of cheating is trying his best (while failing) to prove that you can win without cheating.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

There is no lamp order floor in your video, which is something I asked. It's funny that an idiot known server wide to be the master of cheating is trying his best (while failing) to prove that you can win without cheating.

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Ok, so let me get this straight. I posted 3 separate videos of runs of neo nyzul, all wins, all done within a 1 week time frame, all showing I'm not using anything you yourself do not use. And this is somehow me failing? Hi, I'm the one with 15/15 gear on my main, and 5/15 on my mule. You're the one who can't even get floor 80 gear.

And for the last time. Lamp order floors appear like once every 3 runs. Seriously, get over it already. They are not this huge mysterious limiting screw you over factor. They are not even something you need to care about. If you get them, just leave and start over. Only one of my wins on my mule has had an order lamp floor, and only 3 of my runs (out of 9) have even had an order lamp floor.

If you stop making excuses, and just go do the event, you will see its actually quite easy. Unless youre terrible. As for the cheating comment, you totally right, thats why I live stream myself playing the game, and post videos of myself doing Neo Nyzul on the OF, cause I cheat like crazy. CRAZY AMOUNTS YO.

While I still think NNI is stupid on the level of luck it has in it. I will admit Wish did show videos, stop being a douche about it and admit for 1 second you got videos of what seem to be legit wins. Denying that any more is just pointless because it makes you look like your wishing you had never put up that offer, and wishing everyone had forgotten or never stepped up.

Saying that, I still disagree on the end that its not bad unless your terrible. I can tell you for a fact, good or not luck has everything to play with this event, as said in past pages, skill mitigates luck however it does not remove it! I still think the level of luck in this needs tuned down, that has not, and likely will not, change.

Just breezed over the vids' they were moving entirely too slow and got lucky.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

skill mitigates luck however it does not remove it!

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It removes it enough for it to not matter. If you watch my videos and count, we're clearing 20~ floors a run. Here's the most recent order:
1 6 14 23 29 31 37 44 53 56 58 63 70 77 84 91 96 99 100
19 floors before we won.
The first video was 22. At this type of floor clearing you would win 35-50%~ of the time according to the math. Which means it will take a month and a half to finish at most. That's pretty fast for something based on 'luck.'

Even if you only win 16-17~ floors a run, thats still 1 win per week. And I think that figure is pretty good for average players. And finishing this event in 15 weeks, is still not that bad, compared to old FFXI anyway. 4-5~ hours a week for 3-4 months for 3 very good complete sets is pretty amazing actually. Pchan use to scream about how amazing Salvage was, and Neo Nzyul has a much better effort/reward ratio than it does, he just refuses to see it.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

And for the last time. Lamp order floors appear like once every 3 runs. Seriously, get over it already. They are not this huge mysterious limiting screw you over factor. They are not even something you need to care about. If you get them, just leave and start over. Only one of my wins on my mule has had an order lamp floor, and only 3 of my runs (out of 9) have even had an order lamp floor.

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you're lucky with lamp. we did some old nyzul climb. got 8 order from 0 to 90(+ some code or same time), and 90-100 we had a lamp 1floor/2 (luckly only code and same time)

So basically after 65 pages of complaints, they are pretty much refused to address this problem.... What else is new here?