[Dev 1009] Force Pop HNM's FTW

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Originally Posted by Cream_Soda

Mnk has been useful for as long as I've been playing it, so I disagree

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Please, enlighten me on MNKs usefulness prior to Abyssea and Salvage.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Please, enlighten me on MNKs usefulness prior to Abyssea and Salvage.

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Prior to abyssea and for the most part salvage was mostly pre2handedupdate, and MNK was good then. Meriting was done in KRT, where MNK was the only melee anyone brought. MNK also did amazingly well at front weapons, the other good camp. MNK was always useful for HNMs, even after the nerf to boost/chi blast, it just was not for tanking, it was a DD. Boost/chi blast is what people used until melee became good, then it melee'd with the best of them until the 2 handed update, when it became junk on super hard content, but was amazing for salvage, and still good for weaker content like limbus/einherjar/dynamis.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

I missworded that slightly. Of course you need to be experienced to become elite, but judging by peoples' opinions about "elitists" there is a large gap in attitude and the feeling of being superior to others. Having the gear and experience and education of game mechanics is something that is available to everyone, but those who are ignorant would only bother to criticize those whose intentions are in the right place, possibly because of a slight intimidation factor? maybe? It's quite ironic and hypocritical to judge someone and call them an elitist. You're calling them on the same charge you yourself are guilty of. Of course, I've been criticized before I've even met some people. Go figure. The feeling is mutual.

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Oh, I know I'm an elitist. But the difference between me and some others that I know (not anyone on this forum, but on Asura) is attitude. They are the type that gives elitism a bad name. You, however, sound like me. I bet you that you also help people with their stuff so they can be at the same level as you.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

This force-pop king thing is terribad! There are many other issues with the game that need to be prioritized before you pick out something that wasn't broken to begin with. Like, can we just make Assault, Salvage, and Einherjar open for solo players? Thanks.

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I don't think this idea is bad. It gives people a better chance in getting Black Belt items. What I would do to improve this idea, however, is alter the KS99 orb requirements. Include an options of using either 99 KSs, 50 KCs, or 25 HKCs to acquire an orb.

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

Oh and I want to say this again, I oughta say this in every post:

Stop the server merge! You're only making things worse!! I don't want to be a part of any server other than my own~ especially since it's not been so congested as it used to be. Not that it isn't congested still, but it's not as bad.

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I feel you. While I was on Ramuh I was able to solo most anything on my SMN without worry about competition. But, it got so boring on Ramuh that I needed to change back to Asura. I think that you will find that having more people on a server isn't as bad of a thing as you think.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Prior to abyssea and for the most part salvage was mostly pre2handedupdate, and MNK was good then. Meriting was done in KRT, where MNK was the only melee anyone brought. MNK also did amazingly well at front weapons, the other good camp. MNK was always useful for HNMs, even after the nerf to boost/chi blast, it just was not for tanking, it was a DD. Boost/chi blast is what people used until melee became good, then it melee'd with the best of them until the 2 handed update, when it became junk on super hard content, but was amazing for salvage, and still good for weaker content like limbus/einherjar/dynamis.

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Yes, but wasn't WAR/NIN also a better DD prior to the 2-handed update? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't WAR/NIN more preferred over MNK/anything because not only was WAR able to do some nice damage, but also tank when needed? At least, that was the opinion I remember prior to the 2-handed update which separated MNK from WAR even further.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Yes, but wasn't WAR/NIN also a better DD prior to the 2-handed update? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't WAR/NIN more preferred over MNK/anything because not only was WAR able to do some nice damage, but also tank when needed? At least, that was the opinion I remember prior to the 2-handed update which separated MNK from WAR even further.

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RIDILL war/nin was the best DD prior to 2 handed update, and after RNG nerf, except on blunt weak mobs, where MNK was #1. Ninja was #3 overall. But the difference between the best geared ridill war/bb mnk/nin was very small.
What you probably never heard is that the best merit camp was KRT, and MNK was the ONLY melee anyone brought there, unless they were stupid. Front weapons had 1 camp, KRT had 2, and it was harder to find good MNKs then DDsbesidesmnks, so you could always push someone out of KRT or it was open, plus there was more mobs/could keep chain going forever/stuff died faster/more exp per hour then front weapons. It was like 18k/hr at KRT and 12k/hr at front weapons if I remember correctly. (And front weapons EXP dropped incredibly when stupidnoobretards showed up and crapped up the place, which was pretty much always bound to happen.)

MNK could tank just as well as WAR btw.

But ya, after the 2 handed update, WAR switched to /sam and great axe and was still top dog (with SAM) and MNK became only good for weaker content, which is still all its good for, same with NIN, its just that EVERYTHING is weaker content right now.

And just in case you missed it. Rdill war/nin was best, not war, ridill and intelligence were required.

Ridill war nin was never the best DD, no. MNK has always been better.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

RIDILL war/nin was the best DD prior to 2 handed update, and after RNG nerf, except on blunt weak mobs, where MNK was #1. Ninja was #3 overall. But the difference between the best geared ridill war/bb mnk/nin was very small.
What you probably never heard is that the best merit camp was KRT, and MNK was the ONLY melee anyone brought there, unless they were stupid. Front weapons had 1 camp, KRT had 2, and it was harder to find good MNKs then DDsbesidesmnks, so you could always push someone out of KRT or it was open, plus there was more mobs/could keep chain going forever/stuff died faster/more exp per hour then front weapons. It was like 18k/hr at KRT and 12k/hr at front weapons if I remember correctly.

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Apparently, I don't have MNK at 75. So I never exp in KRT. Also, not everything is weak to blunt. That still put WAR as the more preferred job prior to all of this. Another thing, you mentioned that MNK back then was only good for merit parties. Not really a good choice in anything else....

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

MNK could tank just as well as WAR btw.

But ya, after the 2 handed update, WAR switched to /sam and great axe and was still top dog (with SAM) and MNK became only good for weaker content, which is still all its good for, same with NIN, its just that EVERYTHING is weaker content right now.

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Don't you mean MNK can grab hate but not hold it better than a WAR? Tanking, even now, still means the same.

As for everything being weaker, I couldn't agree with you more. But I don't really see it as everything being weaker, more like everybody being stronger. We are able to do a lot of stuff solo that we couldn't do before, thanks to atma, job abilities, and subjob choices. But is that any reason why we shouldn't allow more chances for people to get their BB items?

I smell an opportunity for SE to finally teach BLUs their HNM spells....

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Apparently, I don't have MNK at 75. So I never exp in KRT. Also, not everything is weak to blunt. That still put WAR as the more preferred job prior to all of this. Another thing, you mentioned that MNK back then was only good for merit parties. Not really a good choice in anything else....

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Only KRT mobs (it was all undead)were weak to blunt, and random stuff inside limbus and einherjar other places. And I specifically listed everything MNK was good for, it was good for EVERYTHING until 2 handed update, then the ONLY thing it wasn't good for was super strong/high lvl HNMs, like Kirin.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Don't you mean MNK can grab hate but not hold it better than a WAR? Tanking, even now, still means the same.

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Considering mnk and ridill war did about the same damage, it was the same then as it is now, whoever hit the mob last has hate. After all, once everyone has capped hate, it attacks whoever had last action on it, when you have 2 melees who do the same amount of damage, its attacking whoever did the last WS until they've both done an equal amount of WS's, then its whoever attacked it last.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

As for everything being weaker, I couldn't agree with you more. But I don't really see it as everything being weaker, more like everybody being stronger. We are able to do a lot of stuff solo that we couldn't do before, thanks to atma, job abilities, and subjob choices. But is that any reason why we shouldn't allow more chances for people to get their BB items?

I smell an opportunity for SE to finally teach BLUs their HNM spells....

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I never said anything about BB items, just about MNK being good before the 2 handed update and being good for weak content after the 2 handed update.



EDIT: didnt respond to this:

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Originally Posted by Korpg

That still put WAR as the more preferred job prior to all of this.

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It made ridill war/bb mnk/nin the preferred jobs, they all did about the same amount of damage, it depended on player/skill/gear which was really better. But if you had the absolute best of all 3, ridill war was BARELY ahead. Why do I have to repeat myself to you? please learn reading comprehension.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

RIDILL war/nin was the best DD prior to 2 handed update, and after RNG nerf, except on blunt weak mobs, where MNK was #1. Ninja was #3 overall. But the difference between the best geared ridill war/bb mnk/nin was very small.

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True not everything is weak to blunt, but MNK can grab and hold hate just as well as any WAR still and tank up a storm. Boost>>>>Chi Blast to inhibit mob TP gain, Mantra to grant max HP to party members, Formless Strikes against ele's and mobs strong to physical damage/invincible/chi blast against PD, the best and most useful AF and relic in the game (even though it's now obsolete), overall a good job class. KRT MNK burns were always the best. ToAU area tp burn parties were fun too, but usually healers would complain about MNK being an MP sponge (pre /DNC). I remember it being hard to find a ToAU levelling party from 70-75 for that reason. MNK is still my main and always will be. :)

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And just in case you missed it. Rdill war/nin was best, not war, ridill and intelligence were required.

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Ridill was a decent match up for mnk/nin. An equiv well geared mnk/war, however, always put a ridill in its place.

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Originally Posted by Dazusu

I understand that side of the argument completely. However, there are better ways to deal with the issue than make KS99 the path to pop an old NM which popped freely for the past 8 years. Preferably one with much less work involved.
(You understand, I say this because the NM popped freely; if the treasure from the NMs had been upgraded, then I would understand all the leg work - but in this instance, it hasn't been upgraded. It's more work for the same results.)

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nobody said that update is the best thing that can be done. It still make kings more accessible for more people than 21-24 4-7 loto SINGLE pop.

It's more work but work that can be done faster and whenever you want.


"all job 90, used my KS..."
I'd rather get a leech pos in a cleave burn and farming KS on my own(while caping skills, farming synth mats,doing magians, ...) than XP a job the old way

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

stuff

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Actually, I'm wondering why we are arguing about which job was better 3-5 years ago? I mean, everything changed since then and those facts no longer apply (who merits outside of abyssea nowadays anyway?).

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Oh, I know I'm an elitist. But the difference between me and some others that I know (not anyone on this forum, but on Asura) is attitude. They are the type that gives elitism a bad name. You, however, sound like me. I bet you that you also help people with their stuff so they can be at the same level as you.

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I used to help people all the time, was friends with a lot of newer players. But that's the past, I've pretty much given up on some people. It's just too frustrating sometimes having to repeat myself over and over and over again until finally they pick up on something.

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I feel you. While I was on Ramuh I was able to solo most anything on my SMN without worry about competition. But, it got so boring on Ramuh that I needed to change back to Asura. I think that you will find that having more people on a server isn't as bad of a thing as you think.

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I don't mind having more people around, it's just an ass backwards way of solving server congestion. Plus, think about how many people spam shouts constantly in PJ, that's about to double. It'll be just like Lower Jeuno in the old days!

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Originally Posted by Henihhi

Haukusan will you have little mithran/taru half breed babies with me?

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Absolutely! I need more minions to set out and destroy all the Elvaans and Galkas.

Sorry for the late replies, was out drinking all night :)

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Originally Posted by Rambus

is there any plans to change the update notes based on what has been talked about here?

the change this opens up is allowing more people acesss D ring so meny people will do that route for that. from what I seen KSNM drops for BB items beard and tounge are really high (1 out of 2 or 3 on average)

but what is going to be done to counter the low drop rate for eggs?

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You need to actually go check wiki for the drop rate for BB items from KS99....................less than 30% for Beard, way less for Tongue and Egg.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

So all those people complaining they don't have seals, Now have the option to purchase the Pop item too! 1 Less problem.

They'll still complain though

watch them.

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Yup, yup, yup!

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Originally Posted by Yopop

Here's the down side

What about the people who do not have jobs left to level anywhere.. Where do they get the Kindred Seals besides farming easy pray+ for hours on end at a poor drop rate. I would take a week or more to even get half the Seals to do the KSNM

Not really fair when they have nothing to level .. even with the cap going to 95 .. even 100 .. the kindred seal rate they won't get a lot of seals from it

I solod from 1-90 on BST and the amount of BS and KS I got would afford me maybe a 4 go's @ 99KSNM

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Farm for gil? So you can buy the pop item?

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Originally Posted by Octaviane

Farm for gil? So you can buy the pop item?

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We don't take kindly to logic around here >:U

hay guise eye gawtz a gewd idear! lets give everyone everything so its no longer a game but a lottery where everyone wins!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Just to clarify some questions that have been popping up regarding these adjustments, KSNM99 BCs will continue to drop black belt-related quest items.

Also, another bit of important information you might like to know, the triggers needed to spawn Fafnir/Behemoth/Adamantoise will be tradeable.

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I do not know if trade-able pops is the best idea I've seen from SE, but just making it possible to pop the kings without the HNMls's trying to MKP you for beating their bots will be nice. ... I always thought SE should make the nms force pops anyway, with the kings being a lottery from the forced pops.

Just curious, what was the reasoning for removing the 100% drop rate from the kings? Isn't the challenge of beating the ksnm's, NQ nm, and the king enough to warrant the reward?

I forgot to add my new signature:

Server merges are going to kill the game! Stop it!

Bad SE!
You guys have no clue what you're doing! just leave it alone! Go away!

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Originally Posted by Harukusan

I forgot to add my new signature:

Server merges are going to kill the game! Stop it!

Bad SE!
You guys have no clue what you're doing! just leave it alone! Go away!

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Wrong Thread.

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Originally Posted by Flunklesnarkin

We don't take kindly to logic around here >:U

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Lol, sorry, I forgot this game isn't about logic :)

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Wrong Thread.

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I only posted that because I mentioned earlier in this thread that I would add that statement to my signature, but I never really did I guess. You know I don't think SE really gives a damn what we think, we should just rebel till they ban every last one of us and realize what they did was stupid after it's too late.

Congratulations on your future accomplishment of losing a very large player base by giving them false hopes to fix some things people actually have concerns for. (aka, the forums were probably a bad idea. the fact you can ban people over stupid matters is ridiculous as well).