Lower The Minimum Level Required To Enter Abyssea from 30-1

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Originally Posted by Nephilipitou

Yes because exp is dang near IMPOSSIBLE to come by... so losing exp is SUCH a HUGE problem. >_>

If you want the minimum level to be lowered to 1 you are an idiot. It takes a day or 2 tops if you really want to, to get to 30. If you leech starting at level 1 and you don't have all your skills capped already, you will be useless by the time you get to Abyssea.

You will be gimped with no skills, you will be inept at your job, etcetera. Besides at low levels the exp limits will literally be LOWER in Abyssea than actually going out and party. Why get 100-200 a kill (level 30 is capped at around 300 a kill or so) when you can go and get 300-500 a kill out partying in low level areas?

All you people wanting to leech from level 1 and up, don't have a single decent argument on your side. If you can't be bothered to take a job to at least level 30, you're useless and please leave FFXI.

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Most 75s are worthless in Abyssea. Your point is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Nephilipitou

Yes because exp is dang near IMPOSSIBLE to come by... so losing exp is SUCH a HUGE problem. >_>

If you want the minimum level to be lowered to 1 you are an idiot. It takes a day or 2 tops if you really want to, to get to 30. If you leech starting at level 1 and you don't have all your skills capped already, you will be useless by the time you get to Abyssea.

You will be gimped with no skills, you will be inept at your job, etcetera. Besides at low levels the exp limits will literally be LOWER in Abyssea than actually going out and party. Why get 100-200 a kill (level 30 is capped at around 300 a kill or so) when you can go and get 300-500 a kill out partying in low level areas?

All you people wanting to leech from level 1 and up, don't have a single decent argument on your side. If you can't be bothered to take a job to at least level 30, you're useless and please leave FFXI.

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Apparently you haven't read this thread because all your points have already been addressed. Read the thread and come back with something new.

why not split the difference and make it 50...seems like a logical point where the limit break quests begin...and most players should know their jobs by 50....much more so than 30 at least. Their are JA after 50 but ya cant make an omelette without breakin a few eggs.

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Originally Posted by Auredant

why not split the difference and make it 50...seems like a logical point where the limit break quests begin...and most players should know their jobs by 50....much more so than 30 at least. Their are JA after 50 but ya cant make an omelette without breakin a few eggs.

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Because splitting the difference would actually be 35, which wouldn't be worth changing.

when i said split the difference i did put the level. 50 is not unreasonable. and the grind really doesnt start till the 60s anyway. btw...50 is the difference between 30 to 70 which is when ya can reasonably expect to be able to contribute to the party.

He was talking about the difference from level 1, which is where we want it and 70 where the woefully uninformed want it.

while i respect ur opinion i think level1, while amusing, would be god awful....everywhere else would be a wasteland

Most of the game is already is a barren wasteland and has been for several years now

why exacerbate the problem?

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Most 75s are worthless in Abyssea. Your point is invalid.

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most 75s are useless because of leeching...counterpoint invalid

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Originally Posted by Auredant

most 75s are useless because of leeching...counterpoint invalid

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The problem is that people are talking about heroes when they say abyssea which is a 90+ zone. If you took those 75s to a visions zone, they'd do just fine.

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Originally Posted by Auredant

most 75s are useless because of leeching...counterpoint invalid

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Originally Posted by Tsukino_Kaji

The problem is that people are talking about heroes when they say abyssea which is a 90+ zone. If you took those 75s to a visions zone, they'd do just fine.

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Both of these are so far from true I can't see them any more.

Defining a useless 75-90 in an exp scenario:

Do they have less than 2 Lunar Abyssites? If Yes, useless.
Do they have Razed Ruins and/or Minikin Monstrosity? If No, useless.
Are they wearing more than 2 pieces of Aurore/Teal/Perle armor? If Yes, useless.
Do they swap gear for their actions? If No, useless.
Do they have properly leveled magic and combat skills? If No, useless.
Do they have a weapon that isn't a piece of junk? If No, useless.
Do they cast haste on all melees (Mage-only)? If No, useless.
Are their Weaponskills doing under 2,000 damage average? If Yes, useless.
Are their Tier 5 nukes doing under 2,500 damage? If Yes, useless.
Do they complain about Ruby light? If Yes, probably useless.
Can any individual EXP mob kill them one-on-one? If Yes, useless.
Does it take them longer than 60 seconds to kill an individual EXP mob as the sole DD? If Yes, useless.
Are they a MNK using Asuran Fists, a DRG using Penta Thrust, or a WAR using King's Justice? If Yes, useless.

I could go on. I feel that list was being quite lenient, really.

Hey Sang scythe War > abyssea alliances, people are that terrible. Razed Ruins Mnk with footwork up spamming tornado kick ijdk why...

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Both of these are so far from true I can't see them any more.

Defining a useless 75-90 in an exp scenario:

Do they have less than 2 Lunar Abyssites? If Yes, useless.
Do they have Razed Ruins and/or Minikin Monstrosity? If No, useless.
Are they wearing more than 2 pieces of Aurore/Teal/Perle armor? If Yes, useless.
Do they swap gear for their actions? If No, useless.
Do they have properly leveled magic and combat skills? If No, useless.
Do they have a weapon that isn't a piece of junk? If No, useless.
Do they cast haste on all melees (Mage-only)? If No, useless.
Are their Weaponskills doing under 2,000 damage average? If Yes, useless.
Are their Tier 5 nukes doing under 2,500 damage? If Yes, useless.
Do they complain about Ruby light? If Yes, probably useless.
Can any individual EXP mob kill them one-on-one? If Yes, useless.
Does it take them longer than 60 seconds to kill an individual EXP mob as the sole DD? If Yes, useless.
Are they a MNK using Asuran Fists, a DRG using Penta Thrust, or a WAR using King's Justice? If Yes, useless.

I could go on. I feel that list was being quite lenient, really.

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/thread

Also, you forgot to add "Being a paladin"

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Both of these are so far from true I can't see them any more.

Defining a useless 75-90 in an exp scenario:

Are their Weaponskills doing under 2,000 damage average? If Yes, useless.

Are they a MNK using Asuran Fists, a DRG using Penta Thrust, or a WAR using King's Justice? If Yes, useless.

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Hey! My 75(B. Haidate, Shura togi)MNK did less then 2000Asuran Fists(only 2 Atmas at the time)was pulling hate against Lv80-90s from when I engaged to end of a fight -- until people came with relic knuckles and Amano; ; Then yes, I was useless, but hey I was useful for at least 1level! Then I opened chests because mobs were dying before I engaged, and also because some Lv50 moron decided he didn't think he should waste his crour for opening chests because there were people who were AFK, but they were really mules of the real DDs.

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Originally Posted by magnius

Hey! My 75(B. Haidate, Shura togi)MNK did less then 2000Asuran Fists(only 2 Atmas at the time)was pulling hate against Lv80-90s from when I engaged to end of a fight -- until people came with relic knuckles and Amano; ; Then yes, I was useless, but hey I was useful for at least 1level! Then I opened chests because mobs were dying before I engaged, and also because some Lv50 moron decided he didn't think he should waste his crour for opening chests because there were people who were AFK, but they were really mules of the real DDs.

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I don't think Asuran can average over 2k in Abyssea anyways, thus why I mentioned it :P. Ascetic's Fury is a much better choice. I don't particularly mind people who are unable to contribute to the party. I simply wanted to clarify the difference between what each group considers a leech.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Both of these are so far from true I can't see them any more.

Defining a useless 75-90 in an exp scenario:

Do they have less than 2 Lunar Abyssites? If Yes, useless.
Do they have Razed Ruins and/or Minikin Monstrosity? If No, useless.
Are they wearing more than 2 pieces of Aurore/Teal/Perle armor? If Yes, useless.
Do they swap gear for their actions? If No, useless.
Do they have properly leveled magic and combat skills? If No, useless.
Do they have a weapon that isn't a piece of junk? If No, useless.
Do they cast haste on all melees (Mage-only)? If No, useless.
Are their Weaponskills doing under 2,000 damage average? If Yes, useless.
Are their Tier 5 nukes doing under 2,500 damage? If Yes, useless.
Do they complain about Ruby light? If Yes, probably useless.
Can any individual EXP mob kill them one-on-one? If Yes, useless.
Does it take them longer than 60 seconds to kill an individual EXP mob as the sole DD? If Yes, useless.
Are they a MNK using Asuran Fists, a DRG using Penta Thrust, or a WAR using King's Justice? If Yes, useless.

I could go on. I feel that list was being quite lenient, really.

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oh please get over yourself.... everyone had to start in Abyssea at some point, you have to be trolling, because if your not, then you are really ignorant.

Honestly I don't mind lvl 1 requirement. It beats getting dragged to astral flow tank for friends :mad:.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I don't think Asuran can average over 2k in Abyssea anyways, thus why I mentioned it :P. Ascetic's Fury is a much better choice. I don't particularly mind people who are unable to contribute to the party. I simply wanted to clarify the difference between what each group considers a leech.

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Oh, you're so sneaky!
Yeah, I never did Ascetic's. Went from Asuran to Smite. It was more like -- I'll work on getting WoE coins while I work on getting Ascetic's but then I got all 30drops in 1day.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

oh please get over yourself.... everyone had to start in Abyssea at some point, you have to be trolling, because if your not, then you are really ignorant.

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I'm not trolling at all.

If we're talking about someone's first level 75-90 job, of course they're going to be useless compared to everyone else. That is to be expected. I was useless when I first started Abyssea. I then went out and got things done so I would no longer be useless.

If we are talking about someone's second or subsequent 75+ job, they should have focused on getting basic Atmas and Abyssites before trying to level new jobs and taking up a slot in my party.

Either way, if you're not contributing in a meaningful way, you are *Leeching*. Period. I don't care if you're level 30 or level 90, if you've been playing for 5 weeks or 5 years. If you are unable to contribute at least that much to a group (and like I said, that list was VERY lenient), you ARE leeching.

Untill u bother to lvl blm and 2 shot nuke an abyssea mob without having to rest for mp your a leech. If you still need to exp your a leech. Cause you should be cruor farming instead.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

oh please get over yourself.... everyone had to start in Abyssea at some point, you have to be trolling, because if your not, then you are really ignorant.

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I dunno, i thought he was being a little too lenient.

lol you don't think leaching from 30 on up is good enough? There's enough crapy players as is they don't need to lower the aby level cap. If anything they need to raise up higher. Its a sad day an Vanadiel when high ranked player doesn't mean anything now adays. I remember when you seen a high level player you new they where good at there job. But now i see lvl 80 players that dont know jack about there job.

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

lol you don't think leaching from 30 on up is good enough? There's enough crapy players as is they don't need to lower the aby level cap. If anything they need to raise up higher. Its a sad day an Vanadiel when high ranked player doesn't mean anything now adays. I remember when you seen a high level player you new they where good at there job. But now i see lvl 80 players that dont know jack about there job.

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I use to think everybody high level was competent at their job.. way back when my highest level was 50

After reaching lvl 75 though, i soon realized level has absolutely no bearing on competence...


I think it just comes down to the person.. call it a video game IQ if you will

If you are bad at video games.. you will be bad at your job no matter how you level

If you are good at video games.. you will take the time to learn how to play/gear/skill up your job no matter how you level.

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

Its a sad day an Vanadiel when high ranked player doesn't mean anything now adays. I remember when you seen a high level player you new they where good at there job. But now i see lvl 80 players that dont know jack about there job.

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High ranked meaning high level, I guess? They never meant anything in the first place.

You used to be able to generally determine the skill of a player by the LS they were in. Usually, these skilled LSes only took high level members. Thus the stereotype of being high level meant highly skilled emerged. Don't confuse the difference btwn a high level player who mostly engaged social/endgame events and a high level player who dominated the HNM scene and did more challenging things like AV and PW. I don't speak in absolutes. There are always exceptions, but they are just that -- exceptions. I also don't speak to offend. If you mostly only engaged in social/endgame it doesn't make you a wrong. It's just what you chose to do, nothing wrong with that. But you have to admit, killing stuff like 3Kings, AV and PW took more skills than Kirin, Sea NMs or clearing Dynamis zones.

eh well I dont see this changeing one way or another, if I have to live with it, I guess I have to lol. I just started playing again about 2 weeks before the shutdown (yeah sucks but shit happens) I have 2 of the first set of three that I have to kill for the quest line, and I am still 75 DRG (was a bit to fast and the LS pretty much tossed me into the fire ;p

I only played for about 4 hours, (honestly not sure how long I was playing) but they seemed to be on a bee line mission, we killed two NMs in one place and then 3 in the other, then just killed stuff in mass till I had to leave.

I felt useless and the LS kept telling me it was ok, but I still felt bad about doing it, I was not even on chest patrol. They just wanted me to stand there and look pretty. Now that I have some starting cuer (did I spell that right?) I will start buying some keys at least to be of some use.

I can understand where both sides are coming from, there is my side (feeling like the game is being ruined) and the other side (likes it like it is) I guess after being gone for a year, it was a bit of a shock to see the game in it's current state.

if it stays the same... will it ruin FFXI? That is honestly a question none of us can answer (and no you really cant)

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

if it stays the same... will it ruin FFXI? That is honestly a question none of us can answer (and no you really cant)

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Can't say for sure. It has been on the downward trend for a while now -- waaaay before Abyssea. So you can't really blame Abyssea. You can say it will continue on a downward trend or just stabilize. I highly doubt it will ever be like it was when the game peaked.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

if it stays the same... will it ruin FFXI? That is honestly a question none of us can answer (and no you really cant)

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I don't think so. It revitalised the game for my friends and I. Gave us something new to do that didn't take hours and hours to do.

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Originally Posted by Auredant

most 75s are useless because of leeching...counterpoint invalid

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Most 75 were worthless before abyssea, you point is also invalid.

I don't think it matters that much in what way you get the exp. Whether you grind for countless hours for a few levels, or run back and forth from an NPC to get pages.

None of the 20 jobs we have are rocket science, it doesn't take that long to get skills up to cap, and anyone with half a brain can learn how to play any job with relative ease.

Lets face it, it's not like you're gonna learn the job level synced to 12 in Korroloka Tunnel, or 37 @ East Ronfaure_[S] until lvl70, (which was the 'proposed' change in some other threads here).

I don't see a problem with removing the lvl30 cap, it'd just make it quicker for people to get to max level so they can start merits/skillups.

FFXI ain't hard. Get over yourselves.

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Originally Posted by Rie

None of the 20 jobs we have are rocket science, it doesn't take that long to get skills up to cap, and anyone with half a brain can learn how to play any job with relative ease.

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People need to make them sound hard to feel special.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

Most 75 were worthless before abyssea, you point is also invalid.

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So, your solution is to defend the system that rewards gimped skills? Just playing devils advocate here...I'd prefer entry at 50, but I don't get worked up about it. I myself have only leeched jobs that skills were capped, and none from 30, but If someone else doesn't that's there prerogative...as long as they take the time to up their skill after so they don't become Sir "Whiffalot" when it actually matters.
It's the mindset of today's player that gets me to lol. Was leveling in the jungle when party member says "last boss for me"...Naturally they ding 30 and warp out. I "LOL" and say "have fun key boxing"
I'm bringin WAR50 and BLU30 up slowly cuz it suits me. Blu is near capped so i'll only exp if i'm the sync on it and I'll sync on WAR as low as the 40's and skill GS or Scythe, for example, as my GA is near cap.
But I enjoy seeing the skillups when I party, feels like I'm advancing my job more than just collectin exp.
To each his own....but when i see a BLU, for example, key whoring I just wanna /cry.

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Originally Posted by Vivik

People need to make them sound hard to feel special.

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This exactly.

I'm currently working on my Emp H2H in Tahrongi and decided it's just horrible farming KIs in boxes without an AOE ws so I decided to level my staff skill. After a couple of hours I already had over 8hours in the zone so I started using my staff to kill. I went from 140skill to 240skill in a little over 2hours.

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Originally Posted by Auredant

So, your solution is to defend the system that rewards gimped skills? Just playing devils advocate here...I'd prefer entry at 50, but I don't get worked up about it. I myself have only leeched jobs that skills were capped, and none from 30, but If someone else doesn't that's there prerogative...as long as they take the time to up their skill after so they don't become Sir "Whiffalot" when it actually matters.
It's the mindset of today's player that gets me to lol. Was leveling in the jungle when party member says "last boss for me"...Naturally they ding 30 and warp out. I "LOL" and say "have fun key boxing"
I'm bringin WAR50 and BLU30 up slowly cuz it suits me. Blu is near capped so i'll only exp if i'm the sync on it and I'll sync on WAR as low as the 40's and skill GS or Scythe, for example, as my GA is near cap.
But I enjoy seeing the skillups when I party, feels like I'm advancing my job more than just collectin exp.
To each his own....but when i see a BLU, for example, key whoring I just wanna /cry.

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Just a heads up, 75-90s being worthless has nothing to do with whether their skills are capped or not. Any skill in the game can be capped either afk or practically afk on either Fortalices, Hpemdes, or Yourself.

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Originally Posted by Auredant

To each his own....but when i see a BLU, for example, key whoring I just wanna /cry.

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Abyssea burned BLU from 42 to 90.

Had capped skill within 3-4 days, all of my important spells within a week, almost full af3+2 and an Almace within a month.

I beleive changing the entrance to 1 would be ok. It would help people get into parties in abby. Not many people do much outside this. Plus if they where to change it to 70 plus after having it to 30 for awile it would only hurt the people coming in after the update. I am sure (like me) alot of us have already done our leeching and have mutiple 90's going in. And if you changed it to 70 plus would only hurt the people that didnt level from 30~70+ so far. So why not be fair and just let everyone go in. Sure it would hurt peopel realy hurting in skills and leaching. But I believe you can learn all that soloing or going out playing with your new job. Also a low level person cant do much in abby i agree other than open chests maybe raise ppl ... not much help from 30~75ish in most areas So I dont see what would hurt the extra 29 more lvs and let people come in @ 1.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

Abyssea burned BLU from 42 to 90.

Had capped skill within 3-4 days, all of my important spells within a week, almost full af3+2 and an Almace within a month.

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None of that matters to those who feel EXPing should be annoying because they think annoying = challenge worthy of bragging about. You're gimp because you didn't get EXP the annoying way, I mean "challenging" way LOL.

I am a terrible player.

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Originally Posted by RaenRyong

I am a terrible player.

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As am I, after all can't learn how to play a job from researching outside the game :D

I'm awesome.