DRK Adjustments via Manifesto

Well SE did say they were looking at modifying WS distribution. If your lucky they may make the SP weapon skills more accessible. Could see DRK using a GAXE for RR inside Abyssea, but going back to GSWD / Scyth outside.

Just a thought.

And btw, DRK does have access to two good crit WS's and one not-so-good one. They just don't stack with DB that's all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anathiel

...I like playing abyssea, a lot actually. And I don't think I'm really asking for anything crazy, because atm you can't close a SC and burst a tier III elemental spell, unless your timing is just amazing and you don't even the tiniest bit of lag.

Oh, and the fast cast thing, how many other spell casters can legit melee? ...yep, went there. Fast cast also cuts down on the dps lost when casting a spell that will do minimal damage unless bursted anyways.

Why couldn't sam get a crit ws too? I'm sure they would like one. Why not even the playing field, giving drk a crit ws isn't changing the way the job is played, its just making the job better at what it does: spike dmg.

Man, all the nay sayers really get to me: what's your reason for not wanting a crit ws? Because...it would be useful? "We already have these types of ws's right here!" And? I want to improve the job, how about you? If somebody offered you 20 dollars to buy a pencil what would you do, "no way sir, this pencil is only worth 1 dollar and I already have THREE other dollars hmmm, no thanks". Remember step three: profit.

---

I don't want all my jobs being the same. It would make gear choices redundant. Gearing 2 jobs for the same thing is like making the same cake twice, might not be identical but the process is the same and in the end they both taste the same. You are asking for quite a bit actually. Crit wont change much of anything for drk short of being able to do more dmg in aby. It wont make them better cuz they lack procs and they dont have retaliation and lack counter. I am kind of sick of the whole drk wishing they were a war. No idea why such a plea for this, if you want to be war lv it, no need to get whole development crew to turn a job into an existing job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brayen

I don't want all my jobs being the same. It would make gear choices redundant. Gearing 2 jobs for the same thing is like making the same cake twice, might not be identical but the process is the same and in the end they both taste the same. You are asking for quite a bit actually. Crit wont change much of anything for drk short of being able to do more dmg in aby. It wont make them better cuz they lack procs and they dont have retaliation and lack counter. I am kind of sick of the whole drk wishing they were a war. No idea why such a plea for this, if you want to be war lv it, no need to get whole development crew to turn a job into an existing job.

---

So... ninja having a crit ws makes them a war? Oh, and thf has one, they must be war's too. And I do have war lvl'ed and I play it a lot....somebody doesn't read previous posts. Giving a job a crit ws doesn't make them war, if war has the most damaging ws does it? Nope, it just gives them a multi hit crit ws.

Drk doesn't need a crit WS (outside, and inside you're acting as if it's the only job excluded there).

To any serious DRK and not a wanna-be WAR. Critical WS is not the main concern, at most we simply wish for one of the mid 60's WS to be made critical to give more 'ease of access' into the job.

So then a serious player can attain an Empyrean or a relic weapon and get over that small facet which is not as defining as some seem to think.

At the point of having Apocalypse the +% WS boosts are amazing.

So F critical WS in the butt at that point.

Still no word from SE that they're even considering readjusting the fail boat that is currently called Scarlet Delirium?

I'll accept the only adjustment to it being the name changed from Scarlet Delirium to Scarlet Diarrhea, because these ability just needs to reflect what it truly is.

$50 says SE ignores us until after the update and they issue us a vague lackluster response....They have every intention of cramming this ability down our throats...its obvious to me now

you know they couldnt just give us drain III or Dreadspikes II either one i wouldve been fine...or a dark magic spell that add additional dark damage at the end of WS's...why can I think up these things are SE cannot, I just dont get it

Scarlet Diarrhea............. I shall incorporate that into my brain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeoLionheart

Scarlet Diarrhea............. I shall incorporate that into my brain.

---

nasty nasty stuff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Drk doesn't need a crit WS (outside, and inside you're acting as if it's the only job excluded there).

---

raging rush/drakes/evis (to a lesser extent) says hi. They're still stronger than anything drk can do in the ws department (non empy) then when you compare our empy ws we still lose out) the only dd job aside from drk that doesn't have access to a crit ws via its main weapon is samurai, and it really isn't in the same boat as drk. (everyone here knows how rapeface fudo is outside abyssea)

The only way that drk will be a viable contender in a serious DD alliance is to somehow increase our average ws damage, because truthfully our melee phase is pretty solid. Crit based ws is a simple solution to this. Others have put forth the idea to change cratio's and the like and a few other things.

if torcleaver or quietus would become crit based then drk could pump out some pretty impressive ws averages without having to resort to /thf which does hurt our total damage output.

many of the ideas to change drk magic and the like do have merit, but they aren't what's holding drk back in terms of being a serious DD, which is the main point that I believe needs to be fixed with the job. Our magic side brings utility that war, mnk, sam just doesn't have and only needs slight tweaking to really be something fun.

Personally I want to be able to come on my drk and keep up dmg wise with other jobs inside and outside abyssea. (to reiterate I by no means, way, shape, or form want to make drk the premier dd job in the game. I just want to be in the fight and push the war's, mnk's, sam's, drg's a little etc.)

I'm not trying to start a flame fest. I'm just pointing a few things out.

You know what I'd give up Scarlet Delirium for.

A Klondike bar.

Or a nice shag rug.

Update is in a week, if SE is going to do anything to Scarlet Delirium as it is now, it'll be in the next patch probably.

or i could be wrong

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dart

raging rush/drakes/evis (to a lesser extent) says hi. They're still stronger than anything drk can do in the ws department (non empy) then when you compare our empy ws we still lose out) the only dd job aside from drk that doesn't have access to a crit ws via its main weapon is samurai, and it really isn't in the same boat as drk. (everyone here knows how rapeface fudo is outside abyssea)

The only way that drk will be a viable contender in a serious DD alliance is to somehow increase our average ws damage, because truthfully our melee phase is pretty solid. Crit based ws is a simple solution to this. Others have put forth the idea to change cratio's and the like and a few other things.

if torcleaver or quietus would become crit based then drk could pump out some pretty impressive ws averages without having to resort to /thf which does hurt our total damage output.

many of the ideas to change drk magic and the like do have merit, but they aren't what's holding drk back in terms of being a serious DD, which is the main point that I believe needs to be fixed with the job. Our magic side brings utility that war, mnk, sam just doesn't have and only needs slight tweaking to really be something fun.

Personally I want to be able to come on my drk and keep up dmg wise with other jobs inside and outside abyssea. (to reiterate I by no means, way, shape, or form want to make drk the premier dd job in the game. I just want to be in the fight and push the war's, mnk's, sam's, drg's a little etc.)

I'm not trying to start a flame fest. I'm just pointing a few things out.

---

Was mainly referring to outside, and outside the average damage of all 3 of those WS goes way down, Even with a Twilight Scythe + Guillo drk should be averaging much closer (iffy on Raging due to BR, Drg is almost always /sam from what I see so no benefit from zerk while Drk has LR). Why are complaining about not Emp ws damage outside then refer to Sam using Fudo, I really don't get, Calad and Masa are on the same path so if you're assuming Sam with Fudo it shouldn't be far off to assume the Drk can make Calad.

Guys PLEASE tell whats going to happen to are weapon skill Quietus. PLease tell me they are fixing it so we can at least do 4k to 5k dmg. I worked my ass off for that weapon and to just do small amount of dmg PLEASE some one tell about it????

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Was mainly referring to outside, and outside the average damage of all 3 of those WS goes way down, Even with a Twilight Scythe + Guillo drk should be averaging much closer (iffy on Raging due to BR, Drg is almost always /sam from what I see so no benefit from zerk while Drk has LR). Why are complaining about not Emp ws damage outside then refer to Sam using Fudo, I really don't get, Calad and Masa are on the same path so if you're assuming Sam with Fudo it shouldn't be far off to assume the Drk can make Calad.

---

RR and drakes both beat guillotine by a pretty solid margin outside, same with cata, still beaten pretty badly by those two. Evis, with all the new crit+ gear it comes close but guillotine is a little stronger, but not much.

Sam is sam, it beats drk by a good margin when played properly without fudo (my fault I was assuming that everyone knew this), and fudo is so much better than torcleaver that its laughable to compare empy ws's.

Quick question, what are you basing the so and so job beats drk? specifically speaking for outside aby i cant see how you are coming to some of your conclusions

ws averages from competent builds (see BG for the tested out info about this), TP/WS split %, having haste + double marches (making it an even playing field). You know "usual stuff" whats so hard to understand? I'm confused as to why you're confused. Unless you're trolling, or ignorant.

I missed editing a few pieces so I'll look over it again but Guillo was actually doing better than I thought it would outside in WS average, barring BR + Raging. Tor average is alot closer when War doesn't have RR + SS backing them up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dart

RR and drakes both beat guillotine by a pretty solid margin outside, same with cata, still beaten pretty badly by those two. Evis, with all the new crit+ gear it comes close but guillotine is a little stronger, but not much.

Sam is sam, it beats drk by a good margin when played properly without fudo (my fault I was assuming that everyone knew this), and fudo is so much better than torcleaver that its laughable to compare empy ws's.

---

Idk what torcleaver's your playing with

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dart

Sam is sam, it beats drk by a good margin when played properly without fudo (my fault I was assuming that everyone knew this), and fudo is so much easier to build a set for than torcleaver that its laughable to compare empy ws's.

---

Fixed it for you. You're welcome.

Seriously can't believe this. SE would rather talk about level 99 updates, jug pets, etc rather than telling us IS OUR JOB GETTING FIXED OR NOT?

Not even a update, nor reply to anything. The way it stands now, were gonna get the horrible SD, no drain/aspir III, no WS fix, no fast cast enhances, no real or boosted 2-hour, the list goes on and on.

But SE has time to talk about all the new things SCH is getting.
You would think after a few weeks, SE would at least say something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeoLionheart

Scarlet Diarrhea............. I shall incorporate that into my brain.

---

heheheheh...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dart

RR and drakes both beat guillotine by a pretty solid margin outside, same with cata, still beaten pretty badly by those two. Evis, with all the new crit+ gear it comes close but guillotine is a little stronger, but not much.

Sam is sam, it beats drk by a good margin when played properly without fudo (my fault I was assuming that everyone knew this), and fudo is so much better than torcleaver that its laughable to compare empy ws's.

---

Not really (put in spoiler tag cause it's off topic

Outside of abyssea.

Fudo you get around 1100 Base DMG before Attack vs Def and lvl correction

0.6*200 STR with 114 DMG Masa +20 DMG from fstr = 254 Base DMG

254*3.65*1.19 = 1103 Base DMG before Attack vs Def and lvl correction

Torcleaver you get around 1080 Base DMG before Attack vs Def and lvl correction

Now Torcleaver with 0.6*170 VIT with 120 DMG Cala +5 DMG from fstr (+60 STR advantage to SAM) = 237 base DMG

237*4.75 = 1078 Base before attack vs def.

1103 is very close 1078 but ofc DRK can WS from anywhere on the mob

Now here's the kicker
Say the gear + skill on SAM and DRK are equal (excluding the STR advantage)

For Sam +60 Str = +45 attack
For DRK Attack bonus = +60 attack and Endark +50~

Meaning DRK will have about +60 attack on SAM which atm is about 8% of peoples base attack which will mean DRKs pdif for WS will be 8% higher and because there is no attack bonus on fudo or torcleaver it pushes Torcleaver past Fudo

and when u consider lvl dif on say a lvl 100 mob it'll decrease pdif by -0.5 ish.

and say SAM has 2.00 and therefor DRK will have 2.16
it'll change to 1.5 vs 1.66

1.66/1.5 = 1.10 = 110%

Meaning on high level mob the avg WS DMG is in torcleavers advantage.

How ofc you need to consider WSfreq or it's not fair.

w/ SAM it can 5 hit masamune
w/22% haste gear w/ March X 2 + haste + hasso = 67% haste

so 0.33*437*4 = 574.8 Delay per WS

w/ DRK it can 6 hit cala
w/ 23% haste w/ March X 2 + haste + LR = 80% haste

so 0.2*430*5 = 430 Delay per Ws in LR

w/ 23% haste w/ March X 2 + Haste + Hasso = 68% Haste

so 0.32*430*5 = 688 outside LR

LR is up 180 secs of 250

so 430*(180/250) + 688*(50/250) = 309 + 138 = 447 Delay Per Ws on Average.
447/574 = 0.77
1-0.77 = 0.23

So DRK WSs nearly 23% faster on just melee swings SAM does make up some from meditating and Zashins DAs.

Basically the LR buff has pushed DRK up alot when it comes down to WSfreq.

(Not to mention your hitting the mob alot more on DRK and harder as well)

Summary of the data.

Outside abyssea Fudo isn't stronger than Torcleaver infact there very close but the fact that DRK has an attack advantage on SAM means avg ws DMG wise Torcleaver will beat Fudo or there will be roughly the same on similarly geared players.

Now i'm not gonna say the math i presented proves DRK > SAM that's dumb cause it's situational stuff but since the Last resort buff allowing DRK to exceed SAM Ws Freq in combination of there superior melee DMG push DRK over SAM pure DMG wise.

As for inside abyssea i believe the fact Masamune has STR mod gives SAM an advantage on WS dmg w/ atmas but the SAM v DRK (DMG wise) thing is dumb in abyssea cause a WAR will just roll in with a ukko's and making it pointless to even think about.

===============================================

Now to the point FFXI isn't about all about DMG and outside abyssea DRKs DMG is pretty balanced (tho i believe we should be able to exceed WARs DMG for a small period of time at a FAIR cost ofc) but it's what DRK brings outside this....

The answer is nothing outside staggers
WAR beats us spike wise w/ Sekki Ukko's
SAM is able to use meditate and other abilties to tp w/out hitting the mob (Occult acumen could of been this too but it's based on mp and DRK has a sucky mp pool and little-no mp recovery)
DRG has Angon and the ablity to shed hate if in danger.
MNK can be a very effective backup Tank.

Honestly SE i know this may be ignored but you need to add something to DRK that adds to a group all we have atm is Stun and that is covered but any mage that can sub BLM or is a BLM because it's unresistable in most cases.

Either way thats how i feel about it.

SAM TP is very underestimated in those figures and the haste is off by 3 for a 5hit. Cala is also ideal with a 7hit. Masa SAM is a premier DD outside of Abyssea. Superior gear, superior JAs (overall) and superior sub options. Zanhasso was a game changer for sure.

Thank you SE for totally ignoring us and giving us all SCARLET DIARRHEA despite the fact we quite clearly mentioned how terrible of an idea it was and should be deleted if you hav eno intention of fixing it. Better yet war was complaining about not getting anything let them have this worthless ability, except if you give it to them then you would fix it cuz god forbid war every get anything gimp.

500+ posts and yet after 2weeks+ we still have not even been acknowledge as being heard about our dislike of Scarlet Diarrhea. Hell any info from the devs has been small and vague at best. Is it too hard for the devs to actually tell you something Camate or are they just getting annoyed with you and by association us? Just wondering because I hate whats goin on with the game I've been playing for so many years and the lack of news is killing the game more.

They are not interested in us atm, I was thinking of making a developer thread in the dark knight forum to hopefully open up a dialog between us and the development team or make a formal thread to ask camate what are the plan for drk on the way to lvl 99. However I do wish we can have a dialog with the SE staff members to see what plans they have for us drks and what we can look forward too, but a conversation is a two ways street and I just wish SE would communicate with us.

I'm kind of shocked, but the only jobs they talk about are BST and SCH.

rez, you won't bet getting any kind of decent numbers with torcleaver and 6 hitting. Not even close in fact its pretty much terrible because you are forced to basically ws in the gear that you're tping in. Your fstr won't be even remotely close to cap, where fudo's main mod is str and they can stack the hell out of it.

I'm sorry man but your numbers are way off. Add in 7 hit caladbolg with a solid ws set up and a 5 hitting sam pulls farther and farther ahead.

I'll still argue with you taint about a 5 hitting ukon vs masa. I believe they're interchangable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taint2

Masa SAM is a premier DD outside of Abyssea.

---

WAR would like to have a word with your face

Maybe pre zanhasso update. Sam looks likely to win outside barring counting retaliation, and I'm now fairly positive that won't close the gap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

WAR would like to have a word with your face

---

"A premier" didn't say "The premier"

I'd put a good Masa SAM up against a good Ukon WAR any day of the week. I play everyday with 2 stacked Ukon90 WARs.

I remember when there was hope that the things mentioned by SE in this thread might happen.

Keep telling yourself that because it won't happen.

But, we got thunder III!

Pretty sick of seeing BLU get all of the abilities that fit/should be on DRK.

Like 6 stuns, and Terror moves?

Why can't DRK have stun II? Its the job that gets it first, and DNC can stun every 20s.

The part I find amazing is they won't even pop in to say "Hey shut up." Or "Hey, we do plan to do something vague!."

Hey, shut up.




I count, right?