Do Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean staves lack utility?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Anyway... a small handful of DD staves amidst a pile of magey staves is not a problem. SMN gets an awesome mythic weapon if by some miracle you can obtain one. I'm not sure what to say about the BLM or SCH mythics though.

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The blm and sch mythics are pretty terrible, nirvana is awesome though

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Amazing you attribute all that damage to WAR, not the SMN, DNC, or BRD who provided the buffs.

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Wow, can you be any more dense? I mean, seriously?

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Wow, can you be any more dense? I mean, seriously?

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He's 100% serious it seems.

Hey Korpg, is it time to point out that 400-250 = 150 = Bp/release fail?

Hey Dallas, is it time to point out that I never said I did BP/Release and that your whole argument fails? Your ENTIRE argument fails completely.

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Originally Posted by Al

stuff

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You would seriously rather have a weapon that is only useful when you don't even need to be at an event over one that augments SMN's BP damage and perpetuation costs? So SMN meleeing > Avatar BP x1.3 and Perp -6 on a single staff? Remember, it's going to have about the same crappy base damage and delay, so all you lose out on is ODD and ~1500mp that you aren't using anyways, and you gain some random crap staff WS damage in the mix.

At 254dps on melee swings with ODD 60% your regular dps would be 158ish. Lets say PC goes from 4500 -> 5850 average, you end up with 1350/45 = 30dps from better BP damage, so now you are at 188dps. You need 66dps to make up the difference. Lets say you WS once every 4.1 seconds, plus JA delay so 6.1 seconds. Your random crappy WS only has to do 400 damage and you are back on par with Empyrean meleeing, while having a staff that isn't actually completely gimp for every other SMN in the game except Dallas.

Except he assumed the Smn is getting the same buffs - you know, forget it, your skull is too thick to get it.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Hey Dallas, is it time to point out that I never said I did BP/Release and that your whole argument fails? Your ENTIRE argument fails completely.

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Who is the idiot who still thinks I said Hver beats Ukon in a thread where I specifically point out that buffs destroy pet jobs?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Amazing you attribute all that damage to WAR, not the SMN, DNC, or BRD who provided the buffs.

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Oh so now you're accepting that buffs contribute to damage, this is good. This is progress.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Who is the idiot who still thinks I said Hver beats Ukon in a thread where I specifically point out that buffs destroy pet jobs?

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How many days after you state that Hver beats Ukon did it take for you to say that?

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Who is the idiot who still thinks I said Hver beats Ukon in a thread where I specifically point out that buffs destroy pet jobs?

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You LITERALLY said that, he posted the links to the posts where you say it.

If we attribute damage increases from buffs to the buffers, how do we determine who gets to "have given" the last 15% Haste? Furthermore, if you remove the DD from the party the efficacy of the buffs diminishes dramatically. It's a stupid point, but I'm pretty sure he has just been trolling this entire thread. No one could really be that dumb.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

You LITERALLY said that, he posted the links to the posts where you say it.

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You literally should keep reading, Korpg is the worst reader on the planet.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

If we attribute damage increases from buffs to the buffers, how do we determine who gets to "have given" the last 15% Haste? Furthermore, if you remove the DD from the party the efficacy of the buffs diminishes dramatically. It's a stupid point, but I'm pretty sure he has just been trolling this entire thread. No one could really be that dumb.

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I lost faith in humanity a long time ago so yes I can believe someone could be that dumb.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

You literally should keep reading, Korpg is the worst reader on the planet.

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I'm the worst reader because I disagree with you?

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Originally Posted by Byrth

If we attribute damage increases from buffs to the buffers, how do we determine who gets to "have given" the last 15% Haste? Furthermore, if you remove the DD from the party the efficacy of the buffs diminishes dramatically. It's a stupid point, but I'm pretty sure he has just been trolling this entire thread. No one could really be that dumb.

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My apologies i may have been unclear yes it's the melees that do the damage but the buffs they recieve will increase it. So in that respect buffs= overall damage output increase not trying to say "screw you melee's without buffs you're nothing

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Originally Posted by Byrth

If we attribute damage increases from buffs to the buffers, how do we determine who gets to "have given" the last 15% Haste? Furthermore, if you remove the DD from the party the efficacy of the buffs diminishes dramatically. It's a stupid point, but I'm pretty sure he has just been trolling this entire thread. No one could really be that dumb.

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So, the only buffing/healing job that has to deal as much job as the Ukon WAR is the SMN? You have BG stink on you, so you are at a disadvantage here.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

It's a stupid point, but I'm pretty sure he has just been trolling this entire thread. No one could really be that dumb.

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You know, we probably all have been successfully trolled then.

But you know what, I had fun still. Would do it again in a heartbeat.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

So, the only buffing/healing job that has to deal as much job as the Ukon WAR is the SMN? You have BG stink on you, so you are at a disadvantage here.

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I'm sure this isn't an attack on SMN melee specifically, If you were SCH, BLM etc. he'd be making the same point

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Originally Posted by Dallas

So, the only buffing/healing job that has to deal as much job as the Ukon WAR is the SMN? You have BG stink on you, so you are at a disadvantage here.

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At least he was kind enough to give you proof that you are wrong without saying you are an idiot and leave it there.

You should be thankful.

Holy shit you are thick, The 'other' buffing/healing jobs aren't meleeing if it's a detriment to their roles, yet you claim your melee is somehow worthwhile enough that you meleeing the mob is more worthwhile than you staying out of range and not eating resources from taking TP moves/spells/being in range of Aoe debuffs versus staying back and supporting/healing the party. No one cares if you melee weak mobs, knock yourself out.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

I'm sure this isn't an attack on SMN melee specifically, If you were SCH, BLM etc. he'd be making the same point

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No one is talking about your playstyle. Wonder why.

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

Holy shit you are thick, The 'other' buffing/healing jobs aren't meleeing if it's a detriment to their roles, yet you claim your melee is somehow worthwhile enough that you meleeing the mob is more worthwhile than you staying out of range and not eating resources from taking TP moves/spells/being in range of Aoe debuffs versus staying back and supporting/healing the party. No one cares if you melee weak mobs, knock yourself out.

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The party setup was implicitly stated: SMN WAR DNC BRD WHM ???

The target was stated too.

At least 3 jobs and a pet are meleeing. This is not a dangerous mob.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

No one is talking about your playstyle. Wonder why.

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Because it's an accepted and useful playstyle that most of the game population understand nowadays. Theres really no need to talk about it kinda like BLM nuking or WHM healing

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Originally Posted by Dallas

No one is talking about your playstyle. Wonder why.

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Nobody was stating that they excel at something where it was obvious they weren't, and then calling others lazy/gimp/weak fro calling them out on the truth.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

Because it's an accepted and useful playstyle that most of the game population understand nowadays. Theres really no need to talk about it kinda like BLM nuking or WHM healing

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Did Byrth say "buff cycle from SMN" in his list of BG-approved SMN uses? Nope, most of the game population does not recognize you like a BLM nuking or WHM healing.

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No one is talking about your playstyle. Wonder why.

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Hint: He's not retarded.

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Did Byrth say "buff cycle from SMN" in his list of BG-approved SMN uses? Nope, most of the game population does not recognize you like a BLM nuking or WHM healing.

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There are only 6 slots in a party, and 3 parties in an alliance. SMN has to earn it's spot over other jobs. It's clearly not a good DD, and aside from a few situational buffs it's not good at party support, either. If only there weren't better strategies out there, maybe SMN would finally get some recognition!

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Did Byrth say "buff cycle from SMN" in his list of BG-approved SMN uses? Nope, most of the game population does not recognize you like a BLM nuking or WHM healing.

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[sarcasm\Because BG = most of the game[/sarcasm]

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Did Byrth say "buff cycle from SMN" in his list of BG-approved SMN uses? Nope, most of the game population does not recognize you like a BLM nuking or WHM healing.

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I said MOST. By my own experience having never once been told to heal or GTFO tells me you're wrong. Even in pick ups I find myself put in a party that will benefit much from my buffs so everyone I encounter seems to know of SMN support and its uses or this wouldn't be the case.

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Originally Posted by TybudX

Hint: He's not retarded.

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If only 100 out of 400 damage is attributable to an unhasted avatar, melee SMN is the best playstyle for SMN by miles.

Raz, you begged to have a number. You have one. You are 1/10th a WAR.

Assuming that SMN is eating RCB, and getting Haste, Marchx2, and Haste Samba, yes. And it's 150/400.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

If only 100 out of 400 damage is attributable to an unhasted avatar, melee SMN is the best playstyle for SMN by miles.

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Only if raw damage is what you're trying to do. Support styles are still just as beneficial in various circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Only if raw damage is what you're trying to do. Support styles are still just as beneficial in various circumstances.

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I specifically pointed that out. BG says "not for SMN."

GG, the extra damage was assumed to be from a hasted pet. A buff cycler isn't buffing their pet.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

If only 100 out of 400 damage is attributable to an unhasted avatar, melee SMN is the best playstyle for SMN by miles.

Raz, you begged to have a number. You have one. You are 1/10th a WAR.

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I'd rather be 1/10th a WAR while supporting the party and overall improving it's performance than 1/3 a WAR and that be my dedicated role

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I specifically pointed that out. BG says "not for SMN."

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In case you haven't figured it out after 24 pages (at 20 posts per page), we don't care what BG says.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

I'd rather be 1/10th a WAR while supporting the party and overall improving it's performance than <1/3 a WAR and that be my dedicated role

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Specifically REMOVE the SMN, and you remove the last 15% haste. Only a SMN is going to haste Garuda.

Al, Byrth is BG's liason.

I'd rather have a WHM who can Haste everybody and keep them alive, but hey, you showed up on melee SMN. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Dallas

Specifically REMOVE the SMN, and you remove the last 15% haste. Only a SMN is going to haste Garuda.

Al, Byrth is BG's liason.

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If you remove the SMN you remove the Garuda. Only a SMN is going to summon Garuda.

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Originally Posted by dallas

If only 100 out of 400 damage is attributable to an unhasted avatar, melee SMN is the best playstyle for SMN by miles.

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In which case, replace all melee SMN with real DDs. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

If you remove the SMN you remove the Garuda. Only a SMN is going to summon Garuda.

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For you, that's only 100 out of 400. You've already chosen to remove 75% of SMN.

Ty, unless it's a Ukon WAR, you need more math. Korpg was all excited about a Byakko's Axe WAR. Go for it!