Nyzul Isle Uncharted information and feedback

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Originally Posted by Agerknux

I think the people arguing against it have different goals in mind. To me 25 kills for a free piece of armor just a side reward, I'm not going to aim for 25 kills to get the armor I want.

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Nothing is free. Assuming you farmed a complete set with a group of 6, you're looking at a minimum of 375 man-hours assuming you don't have any failed runs. I'm not against grinding out gear I want, but it would be nice if you could trade those hours/months for some entertainment at the same time.

I'd still like to point out the glaring gap between the rewards for floor 80 vs floor 100. Personally, as luck based as this event is, I'd probably take my chances with floor 100 given the odds. Breaking 5% success rate would be better than 125 flawless runs at floor 80.

If I couldn't get a group to beat those odds I'd probably give up. It's a game and the purpose is entertainment. I guess I've just worn the grind nerve out when it comes to events that don't put out in a reasonable amount of time; events that are enjoyable being the exception.

DEVS: Dear players... we realize you want some form of reassurence that you are doing something over time rather than being screwed over by our random number generator (that we haven't taken the -1 glitch out of that gets you your item hehe <3) We'll get give you the ability to turn in for "enhanced armor" will be after a month of doing it about once a day... since you won't always kill the NM you are after.

Enjoy your 12$+ /month fee!

15 kills is the perfect number, 20 is a bit pushing it, 25 is just a troll grind out of laziness from the developer. They probably should just meet in the middle and make it 20 kills so that everyone is somewhat satisfied.

25 is good, if you don't want to kill 25 times a monster for one piece of gear get better and target floor 100!
If you cant reach 100 just be happy that you can get 100 gear

+on your 25 80 kill you'll get +3 gears that might be better than what you already have (you dont get 1 piece of gear but one TOP gear and a bunch of good gear)

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

This is where you went wrong. Shouting for 5 other people who are after the same piece of gear as you is dumb.

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good luck reaching 80 with /sh groups!

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Originally Posted by Scribble

My point is that it's also doubtful that people will be clearing 80 100% of the time. 125 days for a set, if that is your goal, is reasonable but it's not something that will be happening for most people. I wasn't really trying to say that beating floor 100 everyday is reasonable either, but looking at some of the posts since Camate posted gives the impression that this is exactly what people are planning on.

That said, Floor 80(in all honesty) is a pretty high goal for a lot of people. Lets just assume that an amazing streak of luck and great execution will put you in a set of gear in 150 days. That's 5 straight months of grind. Now consider that you only need 5 wins at floor 100 to achieve the same goal. The floor 80 route assumes just over 80% success rate. To match that on floor 100 you only need a 3% success rate...

See what I'm saying? To achieve the same goal you either need 5/6 attempts at floor 80 or 1/30 attempts at floor 100. It just seems to me that if you take a group competent enough to clear 80 with that kind of frequency, it isn't a stretch to think that dumb luck would work out for them more than once a month on floor 100...

/shrug

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"working as intended". someone targeting 100 should get 100 gear A LOT FASTER than someone targeting 80!
but imo floor 100 ticket is not (and should not be) a 1:1 trade, since everybody in pt get it + random0-2(3?) drop + 0-1 linen purse (yes, you can find a floor100 kill pic with 2drp+1linen).
Need a better ratio than 1:25 for floor100KI trade

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Ermmmm where are you getting these numbers? I haven't heard of any of the items from old NI being lower than %10, which means that getting all three old sets takes as long as getting 1 new set. .

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so ONE people getting three (total THREE) "so-so" sets (in perfect luck condition) take same time than SIX people getting one (total SIX) TOP set?+ whatever gear from80(45 using same drop rate than the one doing old nyzul)that are better than nyzul back at 75)?
+ you needed to climb100 @least once to get your 3sets!

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There are very good odds that there will be better gear out before anyone completes all three sets

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agree on that part but
-there is already piece of gear that are better than some of nyzul100 piece ie you dont need full set and if you just want full for having full you'll still want full when SE add better gear
-the fail is not in 25win but in 1tag/day



TLDR: keep 25:1 ratio, make tag refresh faster!

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Originally Posted by hiko

"working as intended". someone targeting 100 should get 100 gear A LOT FASTER than someone targeting 80!

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By that logic, shouldn't someone targeting floor 80 get gear "A LOT FASTER" than someone targeting 60?

I'd go to the trouble of deriving a tiered system, but Camate already listed that for us in his post. I'm almost 9000% sure that they decided against it because the gear you receive is better for each progressive boss. I'm definitely 9001% sure they didn't factor in that it already takes more effort(read: luck) to reach higher floors. Not only that, but the chance of failure(read: bad luck) would offset a lower number of kills needed.

Nearly 10 years later and SE still forgets how much players value concepts like progression and risk vs reward.

C'monman.jpg

Well they made it 5 kills per piece instead of 25, so either all the excessive moaning worked or someone mistranslated the original dev message regarding 25 kills and created enough false rumor spreading among you to put a sorority house to shame.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Well they made it 5 kills per piece instead of 25, so either all the excessive moaning worked or someone mistranslated the original dev message regarding 25 kills and created enough false rumor spreading among you to put a sorority house to shame.

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If I'm reading it correctly, the situation is this:

Incoming Very Soon - Five wins means a guaranteed item from that specific floor.

Incoming But Maybe Not So Soon - Twenty-five wins means a guaranteed item from 20 floors higher.

You may be right. Looks like we need to moan more!

Yeah this does lookslike the promised system where if you get 5 kills from that floor, you get to choose an item from THAT floor. If the items are the same though, that may be nice. You can build up key items for that floor or save them for higher items. Flexibility and progression.

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Originally Posted by Mahoro

Well they made it 5 kills per piece instead of 25, so either all the excessive moaning worked or someone mistranslated the original dev message regarding 25 kills and created enough false rumor spreading among you to put a sorority house to shame.

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Yeah, I think this is in addition to what Camate listed in the previous dev post. So now for every piece of higher tier gear you earn you get a free set of gimp gear. 100 floor people now have a 'buy 5 get one free' incentive.

woot!

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Originally Posted by Camate

[*]Key item/equipment exchange system (This version recently discussed above won't be implemented during tomorrow’s test server; however, the system we mentioned the other day will be implemented temporarily)
In the event that you are able to defeat a specific boss floor 25 times (or more), instead of receiving one of the possible items from that corresponding boss, you will be able to receive a more powerful version of that item.

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Originally Posted by gildrein

Players who defeat the NMs that spawn on floors 20, 40, 60, 80, and 100 five times will be rewarded with a key item corresponding to that section.
Talking to the NPC Berangere at Aht Urhgan Whitegate (L-9) while in possession of one of those key items will allow players to receive one piece of equipment from a list of possible spoils obtainable in that section.

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cant be more clear:
test server after update: 5kill on n floor =1item from n floor
later update: 25kill on n floor=1 item from n+20 floor

unclear: what will happen with floor100KIs?

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Originally Posted by hiko

unclear: what will happen with floor100KIs?

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This:

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In this case, the merits of aiming for floor 100 would become weak, so in the event that you defeat a notorious monster on floor 100, we are planning to make it possible to obtain one item from that floor by clearing it just one time.

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12356545645641564165456456453415345345645345345334 grrrr character minimum

Maybe 25 kills on Floor 100 allows you to glow! :p

In any event, yeah still unclear.

Been seeing quite a few comments about how 25 times is too much. Keep in mind that the bosses on floors 20/40/60/80/100 will still drop items independently of the what you can obtain by clearing it the required amount of times. This system was basically designed to ensure that you can get the item of your choice, even if you are unlucky (bad lots included) when doing a run.

25 times seems reasonable to me. Armor won't be too easy to get but also wont be out of reach for a dedicated group.

I'm sort of confused, the last post for the official update said you would have to do it only 5 times to get items, or is that just for test server purposes?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm sort of confused, the last post for the official update said you would have to do it only 5 times to get items, or is that just for test server purposes?

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The system that was implemented on the test server today is different than what was mentioned yesterday. The new system (clear 25 times) will be reflected at another time.

Thanks for all the updates Camate, really appreciate you passing the information to the developers. Would it be so bad to meet us in the middle and make the number as 20 clear? This way it's not too much or too little and still give us enough grind time to justify the longevity of the content :) thanks.

problem is nobody care aboout nq, +1 and +2 item
and clearing 25 times level 60/80 floor will still take lots of luck

please consider a system like dominion trophy where multiply level 20 ki can be used to obtain a level 100 ki

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Originally Posted by Lushipur

problem is nobody care aboout nq, +1 and +2 item
and clearing 25 times level 60/80 floor will still take lots of luck

please consider a system like dominion trophy where multiply level 20 ki can be used to obtain a level 100 ki

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OK, 25 runs get you a piece from the next tier up. So if they did something like battle trophies, you know they would probably still use the 25x multiplier. So after 25 runs of floor 20 you get 1 floor-40 trophy, then 25 floor-40 trophies could get you a floor 60, etc.

Using that system, to get a floor 100 item, would be 390,625 floor 20 clears. Better get cracking, that's over 1000 years of daily Nyzul runs.

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Originally Posted by Divinius

OK, 25 runs get you a piece from the next tier up. So if they did something like battle trophies, you know they would probably still use the 25x multiplier. So after 25 runs of floor 20 you get 1 floor-40 trophy, then 25 floor-40 trophies could get you a floor 60, etc.

Using that system, to get a floor 100 item, would be 390,625 floor 20 clears. Better get cracking, that's over 1000 years of daily Nyzul runs.

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Seems on par for the course for SE. Dealing with Dumb luck or Taking 1000 Years for the "Progression" to kick in O_O

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Originally Posted by Camate

Been seeing quite a few comments about how 25 times is too much. Keep in mind that the bosses on floors 20/40/60/80/100 will still drop items independently of the what you can obtain by clearing it the required amount of times. This system was basically designed to ensure that you can get the item of your choice, even if you are unlucky (bad lots included) when doing a run.

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Despite the negative comments and feedback people have sometimes(myself included), I just wanted to thank you for your activity in the forums and keeping us not only up to date, but ahead of the curve on things. Props.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm sort of confused, the last post for the official update said you would have to do it only 5 times to get items, or is that just for test server purposes?

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The way I understand it to work...

There are(will be) 3 ways to obtain pieces of gear in Nyzul. For example, lets say you wanted to get a piece of gear from the boss on floor 80. You could get it in any of the following ways:

1) Defeat the boss on floor 80 and win the lot for that item if/when it drops
-or-
2) Defeat the boss on floor 80 a total of 5 times and obtain a key item you can turn in for any piece of gear from that specific floor
-or-
3) Defeat the boss on floor 60 a total of 25 times and obtain a different key item that allows you to select gear from the next highest boss floor

Question: Will you have to Keep that KI for 5 Kills for it to "Turn into" The Floor Up KI At 25 kills, Or can you get the 5 Kills > Turn it in for a Armor, do it 5 more.. another armor etc etc up to 25 times where I'd get the KI for the higher up.

To Clarify. Do i need to Keep the KI From 5 Floor Kills to Get the 25 Trophy, Or Can i spend those Trophies when i get them and still be able to Get the 25 "Next Floor" Trophy.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Seems on par for the course for SE. Dealing with Dumb luck or Taking 1000 Years for the "Progression" to kick in O_O

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Idk maybe its just me but you seems to cry so much when something new is posted that I think that's impossible to cry harder. Then SE adjust it to make it easier and you somehow actually cry even harder. It really amazes me every single time. I think you listened "Cry Me a River" for too long.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Idk maybe its just me but you seems to cry so much when something new is posted that I think that's impossible to cry harder. Then SE adjust it to make it easier and you somehow actually cry even harder. It really amazes me every single time. I think you listened "Cry Me a River" for too long.

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It's just you. You cry about people crying a lot.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Idk maybe its just me but you seems to cry so much when something new is posted that I think that's impossible to cry harder. Then SE adjust it to make it easier and you somehow actually cry even harder. It really amazes me every single time. I think you listened "Cry Me a River" for too long.

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Its just you. Dunno if you just hold grudges with anyone who doesn't share your opinion, But you do realize that sentence you quoted was in reference to a Hypothetical situation?

Just sayin'. Try harder. I'm ecstatic about this update. You'd know that if you bothered to read anything in between complaining about people complaining.

Besides, It was a joke. Teehee haahaa? If you weren't so jaded you'd of caught it.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Its just you, All you do is cry about people crying. You just seem incredibly butthurt. Dunno if you just hold grudges with anyone who doesn't share your opinion, But you do realize that sentence you quoted was in reference to a Hypothetical situation?

Just sayin'. Try harder. I'm ecstatic about this update. You'd know that if you bothered to read anything in between complaining about people complaining.

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Im not crying I'm laughing.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Question: Will you have to Keep that KI for 5 Kills for it to "Turn into" The Floor Up KI At 25 kills, Or can you get the 5 Kills > Turn it in for a Armor, do it 5 more.. another armor etc etc up to 25 times where I'd get the KI for the higher up.

To Clarify. Do i need to Keep the KI From 5 Floor Kills to Get the 25 Trophy, Or Can i spend those Trophies when i get them and still be able to Get the 25 "Next Floor" Trophy.

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Camate didn't contest my earlier post, but I'm not sure he read it since he didn't quote. It is possible that you can only select one item to record kills with though. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I would assume that there will be two different KI to track kills both for the current tier floor(5 kills) and the following floor(25 kills) so that you can work on at the same time.

Not getting into a P****** contest with someone whos clearly just looking for an argument and is going to spend the next 20 posts explaining how he ain't even mad to save face.

Sound good for both of us?

It's a very welcomed change. For once the devs are listening !

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Originally Posted by Camate

Been seeing quite a few comments about how 25 times is too much. Keep in mind that the bosses on floors 20/40/60/80/100 will still drop items independently of the what you can obtain by clearing it the required amount of times. This system was basically designed to ensure that you can get the item of your choice, even if you are unlucky (bad lots included) when doing a run.

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If I understand correctly we'll have this 25x a floor lower, 5x on the floor your spamming and just getting it from the floor in the first place. With all of these combined with the stopper I think there is no complaint we can have about obtaining the gear. It might not be easy for everyone but I definitely think it will be obtainable for everyone given enough time.

My only complaints now are that you can't do anything with lower tier gear once you have a higher tier of gear (a 1:1 trade for alexandrite or being able to get a small amount of Nyzul Tokens once you've acquired the higher tier would be nice, or at worst just being able to put it on a storage slip with your HQ gear), and that you guys didn't choose to upgrade the original Nyzul Isle gear (which is only really a complaint because they had unique stats like original Goliard Saio's 4% Haste in the body slot for mages).

Overall definitely doing good however, and my complaints are minor details at this point.

I'm also curious if the 5 wins will stack with the 25 wins, or if it will be a choice between the two. I doubt it will matter much to know ahead of time, since the most days worth of effort that can be saved up is five, but I remain curious.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Idk maybe its just me but you seems to cry so much when something new is posted that I think that's impossible to cry harder. Then SE adjust it to make it easier and you somehow actually cry even harder. It really amazes me every single time. I think you listened "Cry Me a River" for too long.

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Yo dawg, I heard you like complaining about complaining so I'm going to put some complaining about complaining about complaining in this topic made mostly out of complaining:

This post wasn't very productive. It only addresses that you have some weird personal issue with Krabnuckle complaining, rather than topics such as the validity of his complaints or if he's been listening to the Justin Timberlake or Julie London version of "Cry Me a River".

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

I'm also curious if the 5 wins will stack with the 25 wins, or if it will be a choice between the two. I doubt it will matter much to know ahead of time, since the most days worth of effort that can be saved up is five, but I remain curious.



http://i.qkme.me/36f7yd.jpg

This post wasn't very productive. It only addresses that you have some weird personal issue with Krabnuckle complaining, rather than topics such as the validity of his complaints or if he's been listening to the Justin Timberlake or Julie London version of "Cry Me a River".

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Just for completions sake.

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Originally Posted by SpankWustler

This post wasn't very productive.

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Thats because I have already written "productive" part in my earlier posts.
I'm not really searching for any argument it was just annoying that on every other page in this tread I saw him complaining on pretty much everything. Maybe I was tired or something but it really looked like that.

On topic.
25kills for 6 best pieces in the game is pretty welcomed especially since SE initially wanted to make those pieces as rare as relics at 75. Saying they will be outdated in few weeks is pretty much lol... there are pieces of gear that are few years old and still win with 99 gear. Nyzul Isle gear (not all pieces and not for all jobs) will remain best for many uses because its no longer 75 vs 99 but 99 vs 99 equip. There is so many type of sets for many WS,TP,PDT,Evasion etc that you can make new gear that is still best for something and wont even compete with older gear because it will be used for different things. Like for example Thaumas Body is now best TP piece for many jobs. New salvage body for those jobs can be for example best body for WS (Not to mention many jobs from NI gear is grouped different on salvage gear like BLU is with light DD on Thaumas and with mages on Morrigan ).
Im not exactly sure why ppl that are not top tier players assume that they should get top tier equip doing some easy stuff (im talking about ppl complaining about 25x 80 boss iss too much). You should be happy that SE gives you chance to even get those items in easier way because stopper itself is enough for best players to get 100 floors items and it would be perfectly fine if SE would stop with only adding this. Best players will have all sets in a 1-3 months not 8 or 9 because they will target floor 100.
Casuals that talk about getting all 3 sets in some low amount of time just make me thinks if we play the same game? I know what you think that I sound like some mofo elitist but its not the case here. Its not a type of event that let selected individuals that have no life to get best item in the game. Only thing you need here is to play really good and sooner or later you will get everything. Everyone can do it if they are good enough (dont tell me you need cheats. Jem's group did NeoNyzul without any cheats at all and they cleared 16 and 19 floors and the other group who killed 100 floor boss cleared 15 floors so its perfectly possible to get to 100 without any 3rd party tools).
If you are good you will be able to get those items from floor 100 faster if you are not you will be able to get those items from killing boss80. Considering You will probably be able to get to floor 100 at avg rate of 5-10%(which is 10-20 runs) it would be stupid to make it faster to get 100floor items from killing boss 80 than from killing boss 100. Ppl need to understand that getting 100floor equip by killing 80floor boss is only a backup not a main way to get it.

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Originally Posted by Atoreis

Everyone can do it if they are good enough (dont tell me you need cheats. Jem's group did NeoNyzul without any cheats at all and they cleared 16 and 19 floors and the other group who killed 100 floor boss cleared 15 floors so its perfectly possible to get to 100 without any 3rd party tools).

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Uh, last I read of that thread Jem's group were regularly using FillMode/DAT mods to gain an advantage and Coder's group had a person using clipper. Argue the semantics all you want but at the moment, you still need some kind of exploit to reach 100 with any kind of consistancy.

I don't wish to downplay their achievements too much but don't overexaggerate the facts. You seem to be confusing luck and skill a lot here. 16 floor clears is great until you realize the RNG was screwing them.

I welcome the changes to the system at the moment though - we finally have what we were asking for all along - progression. The stopper is the icing on the cake and yes, totally allows those going above and beyond to feasibly get these items.

I do wish the luck factor was downplayed more, but I'll take this as a fair compromize. I can see most groups of well geared players farming 80 quite easily now.

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Originally Posted by Crysten

Uh, last I read of that thread Jem's group were regularly using FillMode/DAT mods to gain an advantage and Coder's group had a person using clipper. Argue the semantics all you want but at the moment, you still need some kind of exploit to reach 100 with any kind of consistancy.

I don't wish to downplay their achievements too much but don't overexaggerate the facts. You seem to be confusing luck and skill a lot here. 16 floor clears is great until you realize the RNG was screwing them.

I welcome the changes to the system at the moment though - we finally have what we were asking for all along - progression. The stopper is the icing on the cake and yes, totally allows those going above and beyond to feasibly get these items.

I do wish the luck factor was downplayed more, but I'll take this as a fair compromize. I can see most groups of well geared players farming 80 quite easily now.

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I think you need to learn to read. Jem's group intentionally went w/o any form of cheats to check how far they can go and they made 2 runs like that 16 and 19 floors.

Coder group made to 100 with 15 cleared floors so yes with a little luck Jem's group could easily made to 100.

The luck is involved obviously but you must be blind to not see that more cleared floor = less luck needed which means skill is very important.

Luck in this game was almost always involved to get the item and here its just implemented in random floors instead of low drop rate on the end. Its gonna be further improved with 100% "drop" for each person if you beat 100 floor boss and luck needed will be decreased a little with stopper. If you cant accept that because you still wont be able to do this it doesnt mean SE failed but it means you just cant play good enough to beat it.

Of course people who post on BG cheats, isn't that the same forum with the circle jerk of Salvage exploiters who got pissed "noobs" found out about it and causing them to get banned for it?

As long as luck remains a factor, even 3 clears is too much, but whatever, I still would have preferred floors 101-200 to regular Nyzul.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Of course people who post on BG cheats, isn't that the same forum with the circle jerk of Salvage exploiters who got pissed "noobs" found out about it and causing them to get banned for it?

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I'm sorry, Thats not even remotely close. Your view on the website is about as i'll-informed as all the "I don't go there because i once heard bad things about it" types who never visit there but act like they know everything that happens there and assumes everyone there are some anarchist elitists who laugh and everyone and make/buy their own bots.

Am i correct in this assumption?

Theres more people in BG who laugh at the salvage bans than most other places. You wouldn't know that though, As i imagine you haven't even seen the website, let alone have any idea that the community as BG is made up of as many diverse groups as any other FFXI Website.

I post on BG, I don't even use Windower, I don't enjoy cheats or people who cheat, But I live and let live when it comes to that. And i giggle loudly at the Salvage Bans, and never participated in the abuse. Oh, Did I break your stereotype?

Not everyone on BG Cheats, Nor did everyone on BG Salvage-Dup. Please, If you're going to try and bash something, at least educate yourself enough on the subjection to have any idea what you're talking about. Otherwise you just make yourself look silly.

In fact, Many people who here, Post on BG as well. Many of the people who are adamantly against the use of Movementtools in Nyzul, are members of BG. Atoreis is a BG member as well, Maybe a recent one but one non-the-less.

Don't always believe what you hear. Rumors are generally started by the butthurt. Humans are petty creatures who will do anything to try and trash the name of something they don't understand or agree with. Anything negative you heard about BG was likely from an Era in its history where people like Thorny were running around furiously getting off to being a dick to people. Thats not really the case anymore.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Of course people who post on BG cheats, isn't that the same forum with the circle jerk of Salvage exploiters who got pissed "noobs" found out about it and causing them to get banned for it?

As long as luck remains a factor, even 3 clears is too much, but whatever, I still would have preferred floors 101-200 to regular Nyzul.

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Yeah because if some jerk post on some forum then that whole forum is bad...
I cant really understand casual players. If SE would give up on RNG floors they would need to put the luck somewhere else which would be drop rate. Nothing would really changed in the end except being better at runs wouldnt downgrade impact of luck at all because it will be the same drop rate no matter how fast you do the floors. With luck involved in ??? floors you actually make your chances higher if you improve you skill. If they would completely give up on idea of luck then level of difficulty would need to be hardcore which means even bigger bonus for cheaters and even bigger inaccessibility of those items for casuals players.
When you complain you should actually try to post better idea of how you would do it because how they worked out this problem is imo best option they had to choose.

Since when have the good things been easy to get? Damn just be happy that you don't have to proc the damn bosses to get drops and you get tags daily and don't have to do stupid time sink stuff to get the tags. And not the "best players" will only make it to 100... your mistaken. Any decent player with a empy should be able to perform well.