Artifact Armor 4 idea

It takes about 10000 "Feed Earth Fewell"s to reach level 80 Synergy. I can understand why people wouldn't want to do it.

I know it takes time, not arguing that. Just don't think its right to say "leveling synergy is hard" is all.

Keep in mind, im not evening supporting random augments through synergy for AF/Relic.

Eh, 10000 fewell feeds is about 30,000 clicks. It's only two clicks once you get going (Feed Fewell -> Earth Fewell default), but the initial selection takes a lot more button presses than that and you get kicked out by an explosion once every 3-5 feeds. It's not skill based at all. You just have to sit down and spam a menu system for about 24 hours.

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not XD.

I'm agreeing that it's just something you have to grind out if you want to be level 80 synergy, but it takes less planning and anticipation than any other craft. You get the ingredients for a stall and then navigate a menu 10000 times with 17 stacks of Earth Fewell in your inventory. Skilling up to 80 doesn't really make you any better at Synergy. The only thing it does is teach you how to feed Earth Fewell quickly. The whole system is worthless bot fodder.

So I can also understand people saying that synergy is a stupid system that they don't want to have to deal with.

I wondering when someone is gonna post a "hitler discussing random vs static" YouTube video?

Sorry I went to sleep.

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Originally Posted by Darkvalkyr

Karb, it's nice to see someone advocating Random like it can be the greatest thing ever, but when your argument is that 'Static will be useless and weak!' it's no difference to the people saying 'Random will be useless and weak!'.

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never tried to hide the fact that I'm basing my point of view of baseless assumptions, same as you others and your want for static. we have no information, we're asked to vote for either, My mind came to synergy augments and the potential. Yours went to, well, IDK.

Either way, I knew all of this, in fact i said it before, here... And it was never "Random is the best thing ever" it was "Static will 99% likely be complete sh*t, and no one will do it, ruining the system for everyone, but with Random, it has the chance to be good, so at least some people will benefit from it".

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The thing is, arguing that Static will be useless and weak has a greater chance of biting you in the back because at the end of the day the stats will be guaranteed.

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I'm very sorry, If you read my posts you see on multiple ocassions i mention and admit Static is the reigning vote here. I do not expect to change it, i had hoped maybe others would see my point of view, but regardless of my intentions, all i wanted was discussion to see why other people wanted static.

Just as my idea of random is so foreign to you, all these people voting static are making me go "wut? Why?" Because very few are giving their reasons.

Though, for the record, Nothing will bite me in the back, i'm fully prepared for all contingencies from this. Either I'm right, or I'm wrong. I'll be fine either way, and to be frank, I'm hoping Static augments aren't complete crap, because I don't want another dead system in this game, on similar levels to Evolith.

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With Sky, I realize you can make great equipment, and if you have high skill in synergy (not a lot of people want to do it) you can make something really good unless you're unlucky. The fact of the matter is, people are redoing old content to hopefully be able to get those tatters and augment sky gear - but this isn't really convenient for anyone. Nothing's guaranteed, especially if synergy skill is low, and to ask them to level synergy to have a good chance is really out of the way to do it.

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This is no different than people farming Empyrean +1 items. Don't have friends? You have to ask someone who can help. same as "Don't have Synergy? have to ask someone who can help". Its an MMO, unless you're master of everything with 4 accounts, You're always going to have to ask someone for help. I do not see how Synergy would be the main problem, it doesn't seem like it goes outside of the norm of FFXI "Not good enough? Find help". (implying only that if you dont have the proper skills/tools to complete someone you seek friends/help)

However, Your opinion is yours and mine is mine, it is not my goal to change it. I understand where you're coming from however.

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My current vote rests with Static augments. Yes, I'd much rather get an extra +3 to all the stats on my relic for my effort instead of 1~6.

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This is your opinion, But i did address this. I said "Mediocre crap" in my last post. This is called settling. and my problem with this is, I'm baseless assuming most people voting for static won't even bother doing this content, I.E all this +2 gear will be directed toward players who won't even bother doing the content, so we'll have all this mediocre armor floating around that no one wants to get either because A) it was all junk, and not worth the time, or B) They're too lazy to bother (I.E: People asking for Static because they think it'll be easy), or C) Both.

The above does not necessarily describe you, or anyone who posted here. Even where specified, It is baseless assumptions. However that is my opinion on the matter. I just don't feel people will bother +2'ing the relic if it requires more effort than getting out of their mog house. Especially when i see people still walking around in full perle/aurore/teal and some level 71 weapon, when any upgrades for them are simple to come by.

Not that im implying anyone here does that, simply that a lot of FFXI players are lazy, and i just get sad when i think of the potential here wasted on people who likely won't bother doing it.

Especially since some people here actually think gettin -1 armor is so difficult it shouldn't even be required to +2 (when the drop rate on -1's is very high now, and Dynamis is so simple)

I'm simply worried of the outcome.

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Except, having those static stats make that surcoat infinitely better than before. Whichever system they implement, we're upgrading our relic, and that's that. This example is a fine example how Static CAN work, especially if we get both of those stats.

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My example was, static gives "Mediocre crap" possibilities, Which, in my exact example you quoted, the "Static" stats were far less impressive than the Random ones. Yes the idea was to make those stats improve on what Surcoat is used for. that was the idea.

My guess is, assuming from their original post, that the Static upgrades will likely remain vanila upgrades to the relic, while Random Augments will have the possibility for upgrades we didn't imagine, but also more variety of upgrades and possibilities. To be more Blunt, the Valor Surcoat+2 static could likely just see more DEX, More Enmity, and maybe 36% dmg to MP instead of 35% (33%?). Which is better than its current state, But it would pale in comparison to something Random like

VIT+10~15 (Cover Duration)
Cover +10 (duration)
Converts dmg. taken to MP+5 (helps "augment" bonus)

Then you have something that went from "Well, i guess its better than it is now" to "wtf its much better now wow".

Again, As i've said 1000 times, This is baseless assumptions, Same as you. we aren't different here.

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Except relics are job specific, and we expect job-specific stats.

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I expect not stupid stats, actually. When they pointed out "No berserk on WHM Gear" my thoughts were "We're saying that if its random, you wont see stupid sh*t on it" not that "all you get is job specific". Then again, Thats my simple interpretation of it.

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If SE narrows the pool down to only stuff a BLU would want - which is about every single stat in the game, if I end up getting a hodgepodge of HMP+3, STR+3, CHR+5, I'd have a steaming pile of useless. Thinking about job-specific bonuses, if my Mirage Keffiyeh gets a simple upgrade of increasing the Blue Magic Skill bonus on it, it already makes it a fair bit more useful. Make it +10 from +5, and I already have something that may substitute my tathlum on my ammo slot but I'm not entirely sure on that.

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Maybe I just have more faith in this company than you do? I like to not assume they're morons. They really earned my trust with Sky Synergy augments and how it made a lot of those armors very useful.

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People can go through countless Trophies for Mederi Brogues with Blue Magic Skill +2 and STR+6, and never get it, because otherwise it's pretty sub-standard.

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Yes, I've mentioned the quite f**k-awful Trophy exchange system, even gave my account of currently be 0/150+ on any sort of haste feet on the PUP armor.

I hate that system, but i also had faith we would not see a repeat like that. In a way, I sometimes assume the best of this company, but i do not believe i am always correct in my assumptions.

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The fact that these relics are made to be job-specific, means that any augment will be an upgrade and may improve swap-in potential if not replace some pieces.

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You're very optimistic that Static upgrades will be anything short of +1 to the current stats on it. I enjoy optimism. I really do not hope it bites you in the butt...

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On another note, though - how we acquire our upgrades is another matter. I'm for quests more than anything else. The game needs more interesting content, more storyline. I'm sick of Magian Trials oversimplifying the stories. I was expecting a lot from the Fellowship limit break quests + Aht Urhgan access, but when I saw that it involved Magian...I was heartbroken.

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I liked that they gave the NPC upgrade some shrivel of storyline, maybe the level 95/99 cap for NPCs will have a nice big battle?

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Static until given the information:
-How to get it
-Lowest end random and highest end random possible augments
-static possible augments

As for how to get:
-Quests preferred
-Not Magian
-Not entirely keen on Synergy

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Agreed, to the first part. Second part Kinda half and half.


Either way, In case it isnt clear. My intent is not to suddenly change everyones minds, I kinda hope people would see my point of view after this, but as it stands we're all just working in the dark, so to speak. We know nothing of the severity of differences... etc.

I was just really hoping, if it became Random, We might actually see some of the useless Relic become not useless, instead of what everyone seems to be settling and okay with, and thats "lol useless will still be useless but my 1 macro piece might get slightly better! STATIC PRZ!".

my hopes were, again, that if it was Random, maybe the useless armor would not be useless, with static, I just simply do not see that happening. With Static upgrades, I see it condemning useless relic, while making the already situational armor slightly better.

I did not want that wasted time/effort. I hope i am surprised, I hope they wow me with Static upgrades, its just i do not believe it will happen. I have faith in their Augments, but not faith in their static upgrades. yah, I'm fickle.

What I'm reading in this thread is this:

75% Static, no synergy
25% Karbuncle still not changing anyone's minds.
100% pchan still being retarded.

And hey Karb, justifying a random system using the more or less static augments from sky/synergy gear is kind of silly. You know with very high certainty what kinds of augments you're going to get when you pick your tatters.

You even said it yourself many pages back that (paraphrasing) Random Pool augments = horror stories.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

What I'm reading in this thread is this:

75% Static, no synergy
25% Karbuncle still not changing anyone's minds.
100% pchan still being retarded.

And hey Karb, justifying a random system using the more or less static augments from sky/synergy gear is kind of silly. You know with very high certainty what kinds of augments you're going to get when you pick your tatters.

You even said it yourself many pages back that (paraphrasing) Random Pool augments = horror stories.

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/sigh -.-

I admitted that some people who try for the absolute best from the random pool will encounter a lot of bad luck. The Random Pool augments are generally the worst to get.

But if someone wanted AGI+6 Crit Dmg+4 byakko's haidate, It wouldn't take an insane amount of time, as if they were going for STR+6... AGI+6 on byakkos is a HQ stat, where as STR+6 is from the "Random Pool" upgrades.

And I'm not trying to justify anything... I'm simply giving people my opinions and letting them know fully where I stand on why i believe what i do. I admit in that very post that i have faith in the company when it would come to random Augments, because of the amazing augments from Sky/Abjuration Armor, where as with static, my faith wavers.

Also, I will never change my mind, but ultimately my goal is not to change yours, its discussion and understanding~

Also, I don't believe my assumptions are any more absurd than "RANDOM WILL BE SUPER HARD AND IMPOSSIBLE AND NEVER REWARD ME I KNOW THIS 100% FACT, GIVE ME MEDIOCRITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY" that some might be getting at. (not exactly you)

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

But if someone wanted AGI+6 Crit Dmg+4 byakko's haidate, It wouldn't take an insane amount of time, as if they were going for STR+6... AGI+6 on byakkos is a HQ stat, where as STR+6 is from the "Random Pool" upgrades.

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So to paraphrase:

The less random, the better?

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Originally Posted by Raksha

So to paraphrase:

The less random, the better?

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So long as its not a static 1 absolute single upgrade? Yup. I've admitted less random = better, which is why i much prefer Synergy Augments over say, Trophies, or FoV failure. I never once implied or asked for a 100% complete random bumf*ck wth upgrade system. Nor did i expect them to implement one.

If they released Static upgrades with split paths and multiple rewards/outcomes like Magian trials, I would not complain, it gives me a choice, and i can pick my poison, so to speak. however if its just 1 absolute static upgrade, Its where I'm turned off. 1 Absolute static no choice upgrade might condemn the pieces, where as multiple options/varieties might actually help the useless armor be less useless.

However i really feel like you're not even bothering to read or understand my post, and instead just look for something to pick apart and ignore everything else...

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

My guess is, assuming from their original post, that the Static upgrades will likely remain vanilla upgrades to the relic, while Random Augments will have the possibility for upgrades we didn't imagine, but also more variety of upgrades and possibilities. To be more Blunt, the Valor Surcoat+2 static could likely just see more DEX, More Enmity, and maybe 36% dmg to MP instead of 35% (33%?).

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For me, this would be like some watching a movie in which some dude discovers the Statue of Liberty or the Eiffel Tower on an "alien" planet. It's certainly not the first time a plot has twisted like this, and I probably saw it coming, but it would still be a little depressing.

Also, it's kind of nuts that they didn't give any numerical examples. This basically just leaves the decision to guess-work and emotional reactions based on bad random augment systems used in the past.

It's like a circular room with the lights out. I'm running one way thinking I might reach the exit, Krabknuckle is running the other because it might be that way. Every fifteen minutes or so, we run into each other in a fashion that would make the Three Stooges proud.

Of course, it will turn out that there is no exit. Only Water Resistance +6.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

However i really feel like you're not even bothering to read or understand my post, and instead just look for something to pick apart and ignore everything else...

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I'll admit I skimmed the last ~8 pages that were posted today, but I think I got the gist (also I generally only respond to the parts I disagree with). Anyway I don't see much point in doing it the sky/synergy way because it's basically static but with "fuck you" random pool augments thrown in to drive people crazy.

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Originally Posted by Raksha

I'll admit I skimmed the last ~8 pages that were posted today, but I think I got the gist (also I generally only respond to the parts I disagree with). Anyway I don't see much point in doing it the sky/synergy way because it's basically static but with "fuck you" random pool augments thrown in to drive people crazy.

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I agree, the system would need fine-tunning. But again, i think a better alternative would be Multiple Possible endings via Magian trials.

Static people will enjoy it, and people who would want random... while it wouldn't give them exactly what they want, they would have the illusion of choice, i could settle with that.

However, I think if they improved on the Synergy Augment system (less Random pools? Idk) then maybe It could yield some headway on both sides of the debate...

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

However, I think if they improved on the Synergy Augment system (less Random pools? Idk) then maybe It could yield some headway on both sides of the debate...

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I think this could be accomplished by just making synergy itself skill up faster, so more people would try and could understand the base system. It would also result in more people able to glue parts of pants to their own pants using a synergy furnace, which seems to be a sticking point in all of this.

It mostly mystifies me that people keep mentioning synergy over and over after the SE post that basically said, "Hey, it might not be synergy either way, so stop talking about synergy." I'd think some of these folks' parents were crushed by a synergy furnace, leading them to dress up as bats and...uh...post about how they hate synergy, I guess.

Static all the way please^^

Yellow font on my items sucks, end of story.

As was mentioned before, immutable vs. influenced randomness. Pretty much every current "random" drop (that isn't augmented) you can influence somehow, and increase your chances to get it. There's tactical ways to approach the situation. The same can't be said for augments (at least not all kinds of augments, new synergy ones are different, but it's still limited). I'm not saying randomness in itself is bad, but how it is employed.

Another personal issue of mine that shows what I mean is this: I'm a perfectionist. I want the absolute best, always. If a NM drops a rare item with 5% probability and is heavily overcamped, I will camp it, day in day out, to obtain it. That's how I got Peacock Amulet, Trotter Boots, Velocious Belt, etc. and might have gotten Defending Ring if SE didn't botch that up. However, I know that some day, I will get that reward.

I do not know this with random augments. In probability theory it's the difference between a continuous random variable and a discrete one. For a discrete one, with a limited number of results, you can predict how long it will take you to get a certain result, since each has a probability (5% in the case of Velocious Belt for example). However, same does not hold true for continuous variables. Since there's infinitely many possibilities the probability for each one is zero, which means you'll never get what you desire. I know it's not quite as bad in this case, since there aren't actually infinitely many results, but the situation is similar. There's not "like 20 results you can be happy with". For me, there's only one possible result and everything else is a failure. And the probability to get that result is near zero, so the expected time I have to invest into it (and I'm fairly certain money as well) will approach infinity. That's not what I consider fun in this game.

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Another personal issue of mine that shows what I mean is this: I'm a perfectionist. I want the absolute best, always. If a NM drops a rare item with 5% probability and is heavily overcamped, I will camp it, day in day out, to obtain it. That's how I got Peacock Amulet, Trotter Boots, Velocious Belt, etc. and might have gotten Defending Ring if SE didn't botch that up. However, I know that some day, I will get that reward.

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The thing is, You don't know you'll get a reward some day. That 5% Drop rate could screw you time and time over, same as Random Augments. You just assume the random-number-generator will eventually favor you.

(I'm aware your final paragraph addresses most of this)

Think of it this way. The best Blade:hi Augments for Byakko's Haidate are AGI+6 Crit Dmg+4% yes?

Well, Whats the difference between getting tatters day in day out until you get the best augment? Vs as you put it "Camping the NM Day in day out til i get the drop".

Each one employs a random variable to get what you want, and with Synergy augments, You know the above combination is a possible.

I believe the difference between synthing an Augment, and not getting what you want, and Killing a mob, and not getting what you want, is very small.

The end result, You just come back and try again another day. I doubt this will change your mind, But i think you'll see i'm correct here. You know your goal because you want too, If my goal is "I want a AGI+6 Byakkos Haidate" and yours is "I want a Peacock Charm", We're both at the mercy of random number generators, and we both know eventually the numbers will favor us and we'll get what we want, and we both know the end result of what we'll get.

I know i wont stop until i get the AGI+6 Haidate, because its possible, Just like you won't stop til you get your drop, because you know its possible. Either situation we're both at the direct mercy of a Random number generator.

Do you see where Im coming from arc :\? whats the difference between setting the goal "I want a perfect Hecatomb Mittens" vs "I want to get xxx drop!", Both are goals you know are possible, and you know the outcome too, and both take time and are at the mercy of random number generators. With the augments I wouldn't say there is an infinite number of variables, The Synergy augments are very tame and it is rather easy to get what you want, as each has about ~5 "HQ" Augments to chose from, and you're getting 3 of those each HQ3 synth, if not a random pool one.

Also with proc's, If we're going to assume that every drop you want can be influenced by procs, We'll assume that Relic Armor upgrades would be via synergy, with a narrow list of Augments, and you can influence your luck greatly with HQ1/2/3 like the Sky/abjr armors.

Thank you for reading this :)

Edit: Edited for Clarity/Fixing some errors.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

The thing is, You don't know you'll get a reward some day. That 5% Drop rate could screw you time and time over, same as Random Augments. You just assume the random-number-generator will eventually favor you.

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Actually I do know. It's a Markov chain with the following transition matrix:
0.95 0.05
0.00 1.00
The probability of reaching state B from state A is 1. Although that's more philosophical as well, I do know what you mean. As I said, it's a game of chances, and with random augments, the chances are just plain worse.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Think of it this way. The best Blade:hi Augments for Byakko's Haidate are AGI+6 Crit Dmg+4% yes?

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See, that's another thing. Is it the best? We simply do not know. What if there's a 0.0001% chance to get AGI+7, only it's so rare no one's ever gotten it, or even if someone got it, didn't report it? That's another major gripe about this, we simply don't know what the best results are. Sure, after a while we'll have a rather decent idea, but it's still no way to know for certain. And getting that isn't easy as well.

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Well, Whats the difference between getting tatters day in day out until you get the best augment? Vs as you put it "Camping the NM Day in day out til i get the drop".

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Aside from the chances being a lot lower, as I said above, I can't even be sure it's the best. For a perfectionist like me that's a major flaw. I don't dislike randomness, I dislike the lack of clarity.

And it's not just the chances or the uncertainty that bothers me, it's that there's no real progression. I hate the Mog Bonanza in the same way. You're not "working" towards anything. You're just standing there and taking your chances, time and again. With empyrean armor you get to do stuff, you get to work towards your goal and you see a progression. As someone said it before:

"With a static system, I know that after 25 NMs, I have 25 more NMs left. With a random system, after 25 NMs I'm still right where I started."

I don't feel like I'm actually working towards something, but instead just rolling the dice, hoping to win the lottery. It was why I hated the Bonanza too, it doesn't feel like I'm working towards anything, just standing around and hoping for the best. As I said before, it's just not fun to me, it's not what I look for in a game. It's a gamble, and I can see how some people are attracted to it (for that matter, I absolutely see where you're coming from, this is a disagreement of opinion), but I'm just not one of them. I could never follow that emotion myself.

I believe achievements should be based on effort instead of luck. For that matter, this is something I dislike about certain NMs as well, yet it's still different, because people do the effort just by camping it, waiting for hours and competing with three other parties, stuff like that, you first must be willing to put up with that in the first place. Besides, I don't know anyone who just got to KA, got claim in 5min and drop right away. However, I do know someone who got a rank 1, rank 2 and two rank 3 wins from Mog Bonanza. It's the same for augments, buying tatters and paying someone to synergize it I hardly count as effort, and it's easy to get "good" augments, but very hard to get the one augment I'm after, the best one. Whatever that may be.

they really need to make the af worth using...
"hey lets upgrade my af armor even tho it is shit and there are a million better peices out there"

only way thf af1+2 would be any good is if they added another TH peice.

as for relic+2 th+2 on hands maybe?

they really need to redo all the old af and maybe the relic to fit the jobs as they are used now....

just looking at the smn af1 hands make me die a bit on the inside and u guys want to upgrade it... failsauce

Static upgrades please!

Oh and while we're talking about Relic armour upgrades, don't forget about Nyzul, Limbus and especially Salvage armour! This last kind was very hard to obtain back then, sounds fair for those pieces (or at least a few of them) to receive the same kind of attention you guys are now delivering to relic armour :)

I don't get why almost everybody is so worried about the fact of Relic armour sucking for the most part. I mean, it's not like we have to full-time these new upcoming relic armour +2, do we? Maybe we will for some pieces, but the goal here is to make those items better than they are now as situational/macro pieces, which seems like a good idea to me.
Also, I think people who were thinking about +1>+2 comparing it to the NQ>+1 are really off track.
NQ>+1 was a laughable and minimal increase, with a few noticeable exceptions. I think the +1>+2 upgrade will be a much better increase of stats, and will probably not focus just on increasing the currently existing stats, but adding new one (especially Job Specific bonuses to traits, abilities and spells)

Karb, if all you want is just a 'narrowed down random system' then it may as well be static or else frustration ensues for everyone. If the range of goodness is that small, if someone wants to min-max he might end up having to repeat content until he gets it.

The example posted 'If I have to kill 25 NMs, I'll get it, every NM I kill is one step of the way' vs. 'If I've killed 25 NMs, every NM I kill that doesn't drop it leaves me right where I started' is the most fitting argument here. I want to work for something and be guaranteed it, rather than to end up with mediocre crap.

I notice you keep mentioning mediocre if we go the way of static. If SE goes the way of static, then this mediocre gear is already the best upgrade - or perhaps the only upgrade to the armor. So there's nothing mediocre about it.

If SE DOES make Relic +1 -> Relic +2 the same way how Relic -> Relic +1, then I agree that a lot of armor gets left in the dust - but the difference here is it's not a difference of 1~2 levels worth of stats, it's a whole 20. I'd expect them to change the stats around like they did with Artifact -> Artifact +1.

In my opinion though, I'd rather work on getting something to get something definite instead of the chance that for all of that work, I'd get nothing useful. If you wanted a reason why I'm against random, this is it.

I would like pickable augments though, more than anything.

But seriously, all this discussion is going in circles about Random Vs. Static. I understand that you don't want complete randomness but a narrowed down, more ensured 'you always benefit' random and that's perfectly fine - I might even be for it depending - but the debate's going nowhere until SE tells us about what the stats will be.

Gawd, this feels like discussing Carbon Taxes down under...

It's really impossible to pick between the two without examples of their strength and how to obtain them. The only information we have to go on, and the biggest deciding factors, are difficulty obtaining, theoretical difference in utility, the "chance" factor versus the work=100% reward factor, and storability. The biggest reason Static is so popular is work=100% reward and storability.

However, if we were given options with examples, things would be different.

Static would read:
Warrior's Lorica +2:
[Body] All Races
DEF: 65 HP+30 Attack+20 Enmity+12
Enhances "Aggressor" effect (Adds JA Haste +3% and Critical Rate +3% to Aggressor, along with the existing effect)
Lv.95 WAR

While random would read:
Warrior's Lorica
[Body] All Races
DEF: 50 HP+10 Attack+10 Enmity+4
Enhances "Aggressor" effect
Stat set 1: HP+15~35 Attack+7~12 Enmity+6~12
Stat set 2: "Aggressor": Haste+0~6%, Critical Rate+0~6%
Lv.95 WAR
when Stat set 1: can only have a total of +40 numbers shared between HP attack and enmity (I.E. HP+20, Attack+10, Enmity+10, or HP+15, Attack+15, Enmity+10, or HP+25, Attack+7, Enmity+8) and Stat set 2: can only have a total of +6% (I.E. Haste+6%, or Critical Rate+6%, or Haste+4%, Critical Rate+2%, or any combination of the two as long as they total +6%)

I think those choices would be MUCH harder to choose between than the chance at having nothing vs always getting something for your work.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

I think those choices would be MUCH harder to choose between than the chance at having nothing vs always getting something for your work.

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Maybe I'm not hardcore enough, maybe I suck, maybe something else, but I'd still pick static no matter what.

My comments stand from my previous post even if Synergy isn't the decided method of augmentation.

It CAN be random augments, but only if it's a new and creative system that allows the players the chance to enhance their odds of actually getting something worthwhile during augmentation (examples are in my last post). The consensus agrees the previous "Random systems" we've seen before are very frustrating and poorly designed in terms of enjoyment and payoff for the effort put in.

It CAN be "powerful" static augments so long as the path to unlock them is worthy of the prize. You don't have to make it easy for us Devs, so there's no reason the static augments should be weak.

To clarify: If it's a NEW and IMPROVED "Random system", then I vote Random.
If the Static augments are powerful, but VERY tough to get, then I vote Static.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

Except that, in many cases twilight beat black belt and brown belt.

Full AF3+2 + Black Belt VS Zelus tiara/ AF3+2 body hands legs feet + twilight

15 subtle blow 14 str -5% pdt 3/1024 haste 2% KA rate VS -5 eva 15% 2% DA

If fstr and attack cap twilight easily wins, but you wouldn't know that seeing as you are attached to your trophy item.

Also for badguardian, the JSE neck was shown to be better than faith torque. So again more trophy.

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No. No. Just hell No. If you're a full AF3+2 MNK and you're using a Twilight Belt over a Black Belt much less a Brown Belt you are 100% retarded.

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Originally Posted by Byrth

It takes about 10000 "Feed Earth Fewell"s to reach level 80 Synergy. I can understand why people wouldn't want to do it.

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If they don't have the patience to get synergy to 80, they won't have the patience to farm any of the static gear. I just find it funny that the same people that refuse random also use synergy as an argument against it. I'm putting money on hundreds/thousands of dynamis currency for a single piece, and after that you'll see a bunch of QQ crying how they don't have money to buy currency, they don't have friend to farm with or dynamis is too hard because they can't solo it.

SE is trying to lead the game out of abyssea and it's going to make a nice chunk of butthurts. If you read camate's post they clearly have in mind to make relic +2 not accessible to the first guy you meat in jeuno that spams NPC for their seals.

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Originally Posted by MarkovChain

If they don't have the patience to get synergy to 80, they won't have the patience to farm any of the static gear. I just find it funny that the same people that refuse random also use synergy as an argument against it. I'm putting money on hundreds/thousands of dynamis currency for a single piece, and after that you'll see a bunch of QQ crying how they don't have money to buy currency, they don't have friend to farm with or dynamis is too hard because they can't solo it.

SE is trying to lead the game out of abyssea and it's going to make a nice chunk of butthurts. If you read camate's post they clearly have in mind to make relic +2 not accessible to the first guy you meat in jeuno that spams NPC for their seals.

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I farm Dynamis solo daily. Dynamis is fun because the battle system is still fun and I get to fight and push for efficiency with a time limit.

Synergy was designed to be a re-vamp of the crafting system. Make it more interactive and a little more skill based, as opposed to just combining the right ingredients with the right crystal and waiting for the random number generator to spit out another break on a recipe you passed the cap of 5 years ago. By and large I agree that Synergy is more fun than normal crafting. The problem is that sitting there and spamming a menu 10,000 times before you can make anything worthwhile is boring. My first attempt at skilling Synergy on my mule only got me to level 2 before I gave up out of boredom, yet I can farm Dynamis daily without complaint.

I finally got Synergy to level 80 in anticipation of the Salvage and AF2 upgrades, but I'd be just as happy as anyone else to see SE not go down that path. I don't really want to end up Synergizing stuff for everyone I know, but I also wouldn't ask them to navigate a crappy menu system 10,000 times just so they can do it themselves.

I farm dynamis daily too and we are starting our second relic, and yes it's fun. Anyway I doubt currency is going to be involved, my bet in on NMs in cop dynamis.

Synergy is not really a way to revamp crafting, it's a cheap way to craft and the good thing about it is rare/ex equippement crafting.
Many high end items require several people with capped standart craft skill too. My point is that capping synergy is a giant grind, easily accessible, easily plannable, yet all the whinners are against it or seem to hate it so I think something is wrong.

I would love the ability to pick static augments for our existing AF3+2 armor like we did for Moonshade Earring, Nuevo Coselete, Royal Redingote, and Mirke Wardecors. It prevents our AF3 from being obsolete as well as allows players to customize each piece to fit their playstyle. Allowing us to pick our augments would create a degree of uniqueness as well.

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Originally Posted by Valisk

I would love the ability to pick static augments for our existing AF3+2 armor like we did for Moonshade Earring, Nuevo Coselete, Royal Redingote, and Mirke Wardecors. It prevents our AF3 from being obsolete as well as allows players to customize each piece to fit their playstyle. Allowing us to pick our augments would create a degree of uniqueness as well.

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^this kinda of static.

OMG! STATIC!!!!!!!!

Reason alone and enough said ............ storable , space issues.
I have 80 for everything and utalize the storage slips. I have tons agmented stuff on me. If it is agmented it is not sendable to mules or storable I DO NOT WANT TO SEE IT! (bad enough I got elite fights and SKY agmented stuff already!). Just what I would not need is alot of stuff I agmented and waisted time on just to clog my space up even if it is mariganly better.
Yes I know you probably could ungamented it to store it but why would I ? (wastyed time when you do that)Thats why I say static hands down space issues! No comparrison no need to arguee no need to vote more. Having all jobs and tons agmented gear for them to kill more my space is something I have no intrest in having if I cant store them.

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Originally Posted by Valisk

I would love the ability to pick static augments for our existing AF3+2 armor like we did for Moonshade Earring, Nuevo Coselete, Royal Redingote, and Mirke Wardecors. It prevents our AF3 from being obsolete as well as allows players to customize each piece to fit their playstyle. Allowing us to pick our augments would create a degree of uniqueness as well.

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This was a good system for these pieces but...

I can see it now. WHM Relic feet augment choices, pick two:
Banish potency +3%
Accuracy +10 Attack +10
STR+80 MND+10
STR-160 Converts 5% of "Cure" amount to MP

@#$%

Sigh, I guess I'll give up the greatest pair of Hexa Strike feet ever for the greatest cure feet ever, because I have to prioritize. /cry

No thanks. (And I know these stats are incredibly broken and extreme but they highlight another way augments could screw players over. At least with uniform stats I don't have to pick and choose beyond whether or not put effort into getting the piece, vs. a potential pain in the butt. But who knows, since SE said they were going to make any augments job specific, they might forget that White Mage occasionally goes clubbing, since they pretty much forgot it on the pretty useless Relic set altogether.)

Why is that the greatest curing feet? I never need mp on whm

Static please.

Static. The ability to store it made it automatically win for most people.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

However, if we were given options with examples, things would be different.

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I'm not the authrized person of SE, so I'd like to avoid to translate it, but today the examples of [Static] and [Random] are shown in Japanese forum.

Here.

It's a shame that the examples are not Relic armors, but Byakko Haidate and Fighter mask!

Anyway, look foward to Kamate or other English reps post!

Can you describe to us what they say? I want to know if i should gloat about static being hideously worse.

Or if i should be pleasantly surprised and happy that they aren't too different.

Hope we get a translation soon!

Not sure if this has been touched on or not so here goes. The significance of Relic +1 and +2 would go through the roof if you actually added to the potency of Enhances "JA" effects with each successive +. Say Melee gaiters for example. The boost to counterstance is believed to be 10% for the base piece. However, the boost to Melee gaiters +1 is also believed to be 10%. Therefore I've never had any interest in upgrading the piece to gain what amounts to 1 DEF, 1 DEX, and 2 guarding skill. If you want people to actually be interested in upgrading the pieces and not have the whole system DOA then you'd have to do something like this.

I'm also of the opinion that Artifact armor needs this same change. You may actually revive limbus and sea to a certain degree if you do it right.

I also echo the sentiment that the stats should be static.

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Originally Posted by Cybernetic_Empire

Not sure if this has been touched on or not so here goes. The significance of Relic +1 and +2 would go through the roof if you actually added to the potency of Enhances "JA" effects with each successive +. Say Melee gaiters for example. The boost to counterstance is believed to be 10% for the base piece. However, the boost to Melee gaiters +1 is also believed to be 10%. Therefore I've never had any interest in upgrading the piece to gain what amounts to 1 DEF, 1 DEX, and 2 guarding skill. If you want people to actually be interested in upgrading the pieces and not have the whole system DOA then you'd have to do something like this.

I'm also of the opinion that Artifact armor needs this same change. You may actually revive limbus and sea to a certain degree if you do it right.

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I agree with this. Limbus was not hurt by the fact that most of the +1 versions were uninteresting and mostly meaningless minor stat upgrades (barring THF and RNG hands), but CoP Dynamis was.

The only known useful "Enhance"ment to come out of CoP Dynamis are WHM Pants +1 (Barspell +22 instead of +20) and BRD Body/Legs +1 (removing the negative penalties). If, for instance, you made it so Warrior's Calligae +1 only had to be worn for activation of Berserk and not for the duration like Warrior's Calligae NQ, maybe hardcore WARs would care about getting AF2+1. If I'm going to end up farming a bunch of stuff just so I can +2 my DNC Legs and get another STR+1, I probably have better things to do (like afk).