ATTN: Dev/Comm. Rep -Relic & Mythic Weapons Reborn {Yes, Please}- レリックとミシックの強化

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Originally Posted by Azagthoth

The politeness is fake; it's a facade, which is why it's so irriating.

SE's communication with players has improved drasticly in recent times. They aren't required to post any information about their plans; therefore, I don't see how demanding the information is going to help your cause.

The problem has existed for only 8 months? In other words, you're just the typical person that is mad, because his weapon isn't on top anymore. Numerous relics have been relatively useless since their creation and you wouldn't have made this thread if Empyreans weren't added to the game.

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Whether fake or not polite is the way to go because how can there be expect of courtesy without respect.

Improved however can improve more to customer service standards. Look at other game support forums and you'll see the difference.

So what? What is wrong with being dissatisfied with the current imbalance? Before Empyreans were brought to the game, the weaponskill damage and dps standards were far less compared to now. It was not brought up before because everyone was under the impression that these are the standards and current limits. Now that Empyreans have been introduced the scale to define standards has changed and is time for relic and mythic weapons to be adjusted to meet the performance acceptable for the present conditions.

Like I said before if you don't like this thread then don't read. No one is forcing you to read. It's the community reps and development teams responsibility to recognize and review issues addressed and answer, which is deteriorating at this time due to lack of communication.

C'mon man, relic users are a small % of the playerbase. It simply isn't a priority.

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Originally Posted by Bumbeen

C'mon man, relic users are a small % of the playerbase. It simply isn't a priority.

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in a standard customer service environment, every customer counts ^^ thnx

If 95% of your customers are black, and 5% of your customers are white. Do you put more attention towards the quality of your fried chicken, or the quality of your hummus?

racist statements to validate arguments. I'll allow it.

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Originally Posted by Bumbeen

If 95% of your customers are black, and 5% of your customers are white. Do you put more attention towards the quality of your fried chicken, or the quality of your hummus?

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This makes me hungry ^^ I'll go eat dinner and come back to read more, maybe then we'll have a response from the Community Reps/Dev Team.

There are actually more relic holders then you think. SE is probably going to throw us a bone when it comes time to level to 95 and throw us another 50% increase.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

There are actually more relic holders then you think. SE is probably going to throw us a bone when it comes time to level to 95 and throw us another 50% increase.

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What % of the player population do you estimate have relic weapons?

Didn't the census show that there is in fact a pretty good chunk of relics out there now?

It's still a minority of the playerbase, but it's not so small as to make their complaints irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.

2009 census lists 3245 relic holders, an increase of 1376 from the year before.

The 2010 mog bonanza lists 5,167,923 total marbles sold. The 2011 new year bonanza lists Total marbles sold: 3,229,335

I estimate ~3-4% of the game population have relic weapons.

And most of those are aegis, which has been patched already. So it's more like 2% of the game population to which this thread applies.

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Originally Posted by Bumbeen

2009 census lists 3245 relic holders, an increase of 1376 from the year before.

The 2010 mog bonanza lists 5,167,923 total marbles sold. The 2011 new year bonanza lists Total marbles sold: 3,229,335

I estimate ~3-4% of the game population have relic weapons.

And most of those are aegis, which has been patched already. So it's more like 2% of the game population to which this thread applies.

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Thank you for the research, its so informative. From these numbers I see the numbers still significant considering its in comparison to a total player base that composes of alternate accounts, mules, and even inactive accounts/characters.

Once again if you do not support, then please do not go off topic.

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Originally Posted by Kiba

alternate accounts, mules, and even inactive accounts/characters.

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Obviously I didn't account for that with my 3-4% estimate right?

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Originally Posted by Bumbeen

2009 census lists 3245 relic holders, an increase of 1376 from the year before.

The 2010 mog bonanza lists 5,167,923 total marbles sold. The 2011 new year bonanza lists Total marbles sold: 3,229,335

I estimate ~3-4% of the game population have relic weapons.

And most of those are aegis, which has been patched already. So it's more like 2% of the game population to which this thread applies.

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Implicitly, in your reply to Malacite, you are arguing that 2-3% of the population is not significant.

Let me help you with math. 80% of the relics are not Aegis.

Your argument seems to be this: if only 3% of the population have (do) something, then it can be ignored.

You are aware that since there are 20 jobs, that there are jobs today with less than 3% of the total leveled jobs yes? That at SOME POINT, at least 6-8 of those 20 jobs were leveled by less than 3% of the population. Then I guess you agree that dnc, blu, cor, pup, bst, rng, sch, and drg should never have gotten any attention?

You are aware that less than 3% of the population have capped crafts? You are aware that less than 3% of the population use sea? You are aware that less than 3% of the population does synergy? You are aware that less than 3% of the population does chocobo racing, pankration, or ZNM mobs? You are aware that less than 3% of the population melees as a mage? You are aware that less than 3% of the population uses throwing skill? You are aware that less than 3% of the population uses bolts at all, HQ arrows or HQ bullets; that less than 3% of the population uses elemental summons?

You are aware that up until around January, 2011 far less than 3% of the population had empyrean weapons.

Etc, etc, etc.

Your argument for 'majority rules' or 'popularity' to determine what should or should not be fixed, does not work in an environment when the whole purpose of the MMO is to create large numbers of diverse groups and interests. You argue that only significant groups should be supported: you seem to forget the game once had only 6 jobs and a handful of areas to explore.

SE challenged a slim number of players to create relics while making their success difficult and rare.

It seems disrespectful to suggest that BECAUSE these weapons are rare, that SE should now ignore them.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

Let me help you with math. 80% of the relics are not Aegis.

Your argument seems to be this: if only 3% of the population have (do) something, then it can be ignored.

You are aware that since there are 20 jobs, that there are jobs today with less than 3% of the total leveled jobs yes? That at SOME POINT, at least 6-8 of those 20 jobs were leveled by less than 3% of the population. Then I guess you agree that dnc, blu, cor, pup, bst, rng, sch, and drg should never have gotten any attention?

You are aware that less than 3% of the population have capped crafts? You are aware that less than 3% of the population use sea? You are aware that less than 3% of the population does synergy? You are aware that less than 3% of the population does chocobo racing, pankration, or ZNM mobs? You are aware that less than 3% of the population melees as a mage? You are aware that less than 3% of the population uses throwing skill? You are aware that less than 3% of the population uses bolts at all, HQ arrows or HQ bullets; that less than 3% of the population uses elemental summons?

You are aware that up until around January, 2011 far less than 3% of the population had empyrean weapons.

Etc, etc, etc.

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You're completely incorrect that only 3% of the game population AT SOME POINT played dnc blu cor pup bst rng sch and drg The first day those jobs were released more than 3% of the players leveled them. I would also venture to say that you're wrong about 3% of the population doing synergy, sea, chocobo racing, throwing, and meleeing on a mage job.

And where did you get that I said 80% of relics are aegis?

I didn't say SE should ignore them, I said if 95% of your customers are black, you pay more attention to the fried chicken than to the hummus. It's obvious business sense. It has nothing to do with respect.

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Originally Posted by Bumbeen

if 95% of your customers are black, you pay more attention to the fried chicken than to the hummus.

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I'm white, and also offended by the notion that I would come within 50 miles of hummus.

Relic holders need to stop crying. If you made it simply to dominate others and not for the small situational benefits then developers shouldn't cater to you for missing the point.

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Originally Posted by Didgist

Relic holders need to stop crying. If you made it simply to dominate others and not for the small situational benefits then developers shouldn't cater to you for missing the point.

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Thank you for your suggestion although there is a difference between complaining and crying. If you are not interested in contributing ideas to relic and mythic adjustments or supporting concerns then please do not go off topic.

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Originally Posted by Bumbeen

I estimate ~3-4% of the game population have relic weapons.

And most of those are aegis, which has been patched already. So it's more like 2% of the game population to which this thread applies.

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1) Here's more help. It's your post is it not? I'm sorry...what does it say? MOST of the relics are Aegis? I said 80% are not Aegis. Try to follow. You said MOST are Aegis. I said MOST (80%) are not.

2) Here's a link to the 2009 census you mentioned. It says 645 of the 3.245 relics are Aegis. Do you think 645 is most of 3,245? I think it's 20%. 20% is a lot less than 50%, so it can't be most can it?

3) See also the census by SE on jobs. Not a guess. A fact. It says that 10 jobs are each less than 3% of the total. it says that 5 jobs are less than 2% of the total. Please argue that those 5-10 jobs should ask for zero improvements or corrections in their jobs or just drop your argument.

4) In fact, 8 of the jobs (whm-blm-rdm-thf-war-mnk-pld-nin) make up 72% of the jobs. So the other 12 jobs should just suck it up and get no changes right? Hint: Wrong. SE created the jobs and SE has an obligation to help the jobs become or stay viable.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../09/index.html

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

1) Here's more help. It's your post is it not? I'm sorry...what does it say? MOST of the relics are Aegis? I said 80% are not Aegis. Try to follow. You said MOST are Aegis. I said MOST (80%) are not.

2) Here's a link to the 2009 census you mentioned. It says 645 of the 3.245 relics are Aegis. Do you think 645 is most of 3,245? I think it's 20%. 20% is a lot less than 50%, so it can't be most can it?

3) See also the census by SE on jobs. Not a guess. A fact. It says that 10 jobs are each less than 3% of the total. it says that 5 jobs are less than 2% of the total. Please argue that those 5-10 jobs should ask for zero improvements or corrections in their jobs or just drop your argument.

4) In fact, most of the jobs are just whm-blm-rdm-thf-war-mnk-pld-nin that make up 72% of the jobs. So the other 12 jobs should just suck it up and get no changes right?

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/gui.../09/index.html

Umm....ok?

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Yeah "most" was wrong, but it is the highest % of completed relics(hence the incorrect "most"). 20% then, I will revise my 2% estimate to 3% thanks to your cunning linguistic skills.

About the jobs:

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and the data from the game regarding which main jobs players had actually set their characters to.

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That is ambiguous, possibly it means the job players had the most hours on? Or maybe it was just a one time snapshot of the different jobs people were currently on? Either way it should be obvious that it does NOT mean "jobs people have leveled or played". Did you, in 2009, personally know more people who had relic weapons, or more who had bard leveled? Do you really think only 3% of the playerbase has leveled brd, drk, or drg?

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Originally Posted by Bumbeen

About the jobs:

That is ambiguous, possibly it means the job players had the most hours on? Or maybe it was just a one time snapshot of the different jobs people were currently on? Either way it should be obvious that it does NOT mean "jobs people have leveled or played". Did you, in 2009, personally know more people who had relic weapons, or more who had bard leveled? Do you really think only 3% of the playerbase has leveled brd, drk, or drg?

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Why should it be obvious what it does NOT mean when you have already argued that it's ambiguous. Your argument is: we are totally confused about what they mean, but we know for sure what they didn't mean.

I'm sorry. It says what it says: "...data from the game regarding which main jobs players had actually set their characters to." What they had set their characters to...what it was set to...

Obviously your point is that people don't set their characters to the job they are actually playing. When one goes to events, one goes on the job one does not play. When one logs off, one always switch to a random unused job. When one runs around town, one uses a random job they don't play. Typically, it's the least useful and least leveled job one takes around the world where mobs might aggro. Certainly not one that would be leveled, geared, macroed and skilled.

One last point: the census does not say these are the % of people who have leveled a particular job. It adds up to 100% and we know that people have more than 1 job. It says these are the % of jobs that were set by characters when the census was taken. It does not mean that only 3% of the players have a bard.

The fact that many jobs are not heavily used does not mean people didn't level them, but it does imply the same point you made on relics. Why fix a job that people don't use much? The answer is that the MMO is designed around a large diversity of interests.

Regardless, back to relics and mythics.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

Obviously your point is that people don't set their characters to the job they are actually playing. When one goes to events, one goes on the job one does not play. When one logs off, one always switch to a random unused job. When one runs around town, one uses a random job they don't play. Typically, it's the least useful and least leveled job one takes around the world where mobs might aggro. Certainly not one that would be leveled, geared, macroed and skilled.

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Which is correct. Why do you think most people are on whm, rdm, blm, thf? Utility. Why do I even have to explain this? teles, warps, flee, w legs, gaiters, trotter boots.

You are unsuccessfully trying to shoot down my argument which you didn't even get right in the first place.
I said that relic adjustments are not a priority for the dev team, and I gave a reason for that: That a very low % of the player population have relics.

I did not say I think the developers should ignore relic weapons, I do not think they should, but I understand why they might ignore them. So I don't know why you're trying to tell me that I think the opposite.

If you are going to try to prove me wrong, you should be arguing that relic adjustments are a high priority for the developers, since my assertion and reason for that assertion argue that they are not.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

3) See also the census by SE on jobs. Not a guess. A fact. It says that 10 jobs are each less than 3% of the total. it says that 5 jobs are less than 2% of the total. Please argue that those 5-10 jobs should ask for zero improvements or corrections in their jobs or just drop your argument.

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Originally Posted by DrStrangelove

It says these are the % of jobs that were set by characters when the census was taken. It does not mean that only 3% of the players have a bard.

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Did someone hijack your keyboard?

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Originally Posted by Kiba

Thank you for your suggestion although there is a difference between complaining and crying. If you are not interested in contributing ideas to relic and mythic adjustments or supporting concerns then please do not go off topic.

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I am contributing. There are players who spent 2 years+ partying long hours for Maat Cap only to have it trumped situationally and on top of that exp gain has been made easier and easier. Mindless grinding for months on end were spent simply capping merits on all jobs or farming gil for a top tier gear set that is now worthless.

Thinking that relics and mythics need to be buffed to a point where it goes beyond being a luxury item and breaks the game is only going to bring back heavy RMT and hacking, something this game has been plauged with until Empyreans were introduced. If you want real rewards that last for making a contribution then go get a career or a masters degree. Making mythics and relics over the top will only bring trash back to this game that i'm sure all players are happy to be done with.

No one cares or should ever care that much about what you did on the internet, get over it.

You are crying and whining though Kiba. You're crying for an answer, as to when the updates will occur, etc. And, most of all you're crying because your respective relic/s aren't on top anymore.

Don't pretend you're on a mission to fix them when you wouldn't have an issue if they just buffed your weapon/s or if your weapon/s were the only ones out of the group still on top.

I'm all for relics/mythics getting buffed, but I wish they could disclude all the players with entitlement issues from the buff.

People will never learn.

TO SE FIX THEM

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Originally Posted by Azagthoth

You are crying and whining though Kiba. You're crying for an answer, as to when the updates will occur, etc. And, most of all you're crying because your respective relic/s aren't on top anymore.

Don't pretend you're on a mission to fix them when you wouldn't have an issue if they just buffed your weapon/s or if your weapon/s were the only ones out of the group still on top.

I'm all for relics/mythics getting buffed, but I wish they could disclude all the players with entitlement issues from the buff.

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AF2 should be superior to AF3 etc.

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Originally Posted by Didgist

No one cares or should ever care that much about what you did on the internet, get over it.

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Look who's talking.

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Originally Posted by Azagthoth

You are crying and whining though Kiba. You're crying for an answer, as to when the updates will occur, etc. And, most of all you're crying because your respective relic/s aren't on top anymore.

Don't pretend you're on a mission to fix them when you wouldn't have an issue if they just buffed your weapon/s or if your weapon/s were the only ones out of the group still on top.

I'm all for relics/mythics getting buffed, but I wish they could disclude all the players with entitlement issues from the buff.

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Wow you seem to know me very well, did we go to school together? If you review my previous posts I have no intention of expecting relics on top. It is the current state of balance which is unacceptable. Entitlement? As I also mentioned the says all ends all is in the hands of the development team. On a player standpoint getting a relic or mythic is not necessarily to be "better than others". The weapons can influence how you play a job which was the prime benefit. But since standards have changed this enjoyment using these have went downhill and is why this was addressed and the development team recognized in March the issue, that adjustments will be made.

It gets tiring constantly mention to not go off topic as while complaining about lack of followup, there is still contesting of decision to make adjustments when the March announcement was made.

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Originally Posted by Kiba

On a player standpoint getting a relic or mythic is not necessarily to be "better than others". The weapons can influence how you play a job which was the prime benefit.

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

Maybe they will get the idea. Me being a relic own since 2006 and being on top of the DD world, 2 nerfs to my relic, and now being completely pushed to the bottom of the barrel sucks lol.

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The thing I don't get is that if these weapons are so easy to make, why not just make one? You're dedicated to having everything at your disposal to influence your job yet a week or two of work is not worth your time? I don't see Caladbolg Dark Knights draining over 1k HP when they weaponskill, Ochain Paladins being almost completely immune to magic, and Armageddon Rangers spamming hate free weapon skills. Relics still influence the jobs as effectively as they had previously, and the whole outcry is from people like Unc who thought they should be on top for something that required even less knowledge of the game as Abyssea requires. If I had a 1 gil for every time a relic holder said their WS was a multihit I would just buy one.

Kiba you can dress up this argument all you want, accomplishments are transient. Good on you, Square-Enix.

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Originally Posted by Didgist

The thing I don't get is that if these weapons are so easy to make, why not just make one? You're dedicated to having everything at your disposal to influence your job yet a week or two of work is not worth your time? I don't see Caladbolg Dark Knights draining over 1k HP when they weaponskill, Ochain Paladins being almost completely immune to magic, and Armageddon Rangers spamming hate free weapon skills. Relics still influence the jobs as effectively as they had previously, and the whole outcry is from people like Unc who thought they should be on top for something that required even less knowledge of the game as Abyssea requires. If I had a 1 gil for every time a relic holder said their WS was a multihit I would just buy one.

Kiba you can dress up this argument all you want, accomplishments are transient. Good on you, Square-Enix.

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No you still just don't get it, us relic/mythic owners are saying the amount of time we put into something should easily make them on top. SE stated they have no interest in lowering currency requirements for final stages, and honestly why would I try for a emp when I put nearly 2 years of my life into my relic. I feel cheated.

Put in 3 days for a better weapon > ??? > Profit!

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Originally Posted by Unctgtg

I feel cheated.

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It's slap in da face.

The one thing relics might have over empyrians atm is they might not be limited to lvl 90, I can't see empyrians being able to be upgraded past 90 since abyssea ended and thats where the weapons come from unless further quests come through voidwatch.

End result relics and mythics lvl 99, Empyrians lvl 90, this is speculation though.

This would definatly help with balance issues, and i imagine this is where their going with them with the changes to dynamis, even if theres nothing in the old city and icelands zones allowing you to upgrade relics, they still have plans to change dreamlands along with all the areas associated with mythics.

I imagine we'll get our answers after said content is released along with the lvl cap raise and their probably trying to keep it under wraps. They said theyll fix them so they will it will probably be later then sooner though.

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Originally Posted by Habiki

End result relics and mythics lvl 99, Empyrians lvl 90, this is speculation though.

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Fairly certain this is where they were going with it. And like I said people have spent 2 years + doing things just to do them and not to "be on top", even though most relic holders were just gilbuyers or botters anyways.

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Originally Posted by Didgist

Fairly certain this is where they were going with it. And like I said people have spent 2 years + doing things just to do them and not to "be on top", even though most relic holders were just gilbuyers or botters anyways.

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Almost nobody bought gil to make a relic because it would cost you around $10,000-$15,000 to do it that way.

There are plenty of ways to make large amounts of gil legitimately in FFXI. It's nobody's fault but your own that you couldn't be bothered to look.

would be pretty easy to fix our relics (mythics I haven't really looked into so I'm not sure what they need to do for them).

Still the amount of hateraid in this thread is amusing. Plz continue you trolls, I'm sorry that you suck at this game.

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Originally Posted by Dart

would be pretty easy to fix our relics (mythics I haven't really looked into so I'm not sure what they need to do for them).

Still the amount of hateraid in this thread is amusing. Plz continue you trolls, I'm sorry that you suck at this game.

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We're not sorry your weapons are trash now.

Also Fenrir's #1 ranked multiple relic holder just got banned for flee hacking. Shocker, I know.

No way emps stop at 90, the player base with emps is too large to ignore. One of the most interesting things about emps is 90% are stuck at 85 and under the current conditions will never see 90.

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Originally Posted by Taint2

No way emps stop at 90, the player base with emps is too large to ignore. One of the most interesting things about emps is 90% are stuck at 85 and under the current conditions will never see 90.

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Agreed with you there Taint but still even the 85 versions are still far superior to the 90 versions of relics.

So what do relic holders want done to their weapons? Crit mod multihit? Only a few Empyreans have that. Relics still retain unique abilities that are unlike any other weapons in the game. Also they are very very old.

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Originally Posted by Didgist

We're not sorry your weapons are trash now.

Also Fenrir's #1 ranked multiple relic holder just got banned for flee hacking. Shocker, I know.

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what are you talking about? i have 2 relics and 4 empy. I go with the times. go troll someplace else, You're just bad.