Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

True it did take forever, however they finally said something in a timely manner for cat/atomos.

Fenrir Sometime in 2004
Diabolos 12/12/2005
Alex/Odin 3/22/2010
Cat/Atomos Sometime 2011

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Also...

Sombody posted that the two BP dats are...
Carby:ROM/262/118
ramuh: ROM/262/119

The part that interested me was the fact Ramuh stun(sound) was surprising fairly long, not sure if its a glitch but I guess hear it for yourself.

This does not warrant any truth on how long it will last but just thought it was interesting.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Naw, instead, why don't you just not compare anything until you actually know how to compare.

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No. I think I've talked enough with you to confirm your troll status. There isn't any person alive that is so stupid that they think there are rules to comparisons.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

No. I think I've talked enough with you to confirm your troll status. There isn't any person alive that is so stupid that they think there are rules to comparisons.

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But yet, you said this:

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PS. You can't say WAR tanks better than PLD because the jobs aren't the same. That is like comparing apples to oranges.

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You don't know anything about comparison. I even explained it to you, which I highly doubt you would understand either..

You don't know how to compare anything. So, you should stop trying.

Cat/Atomos 96+ SE?????:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

No. I think I've talked enough with you to confirm your troll status. There isn't any person alive that is so stupid that they think there are rules to comparisons.

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DON'T AGREE WITH ME?

MUST BE TROLLIN.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

DON'T AGREE WITH ME?

MUST BE TROLLIN.

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I was waiting for this post. And I must say I haven't called anyone a troll before Korpg, and I promise you that plenty of people have disagreed with me. So consider your myth busted.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

I was waiting for this post. And I must say I haven't called anyone a troll before Korpg, and I promise you that plenty of people have disagreed with me. So consider your myth busted.

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Incoming woosh.

Besides, basically I don't agree with you, so I must be trolling you. That is your argument, you know.

Unless I provoked an emotional response whereas you were lying in bed crying for hours over our disagreement, then I'm sorry, that was not intentional, but I did troll you. And in that case, grow a set.

I want to read about the smn job manifesto on this thread. Why don't one of you make a thread called something like debate vs. trolling and carry on your argument over there? It's not fair to the rest of the summoners for the same people to derail every thread. How about being considerate of the rest of us?

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

DON'T AGREE WITH ME?

MUST BE TROLLIN.

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Generally the way it seems to work around here.

Most of these discussions between folks about who is trolling who are personal. I think their personal disagreements are none of my business. I just want to read the forums without having to wade through tons of the same arguments between individuals. Is that asking to much?

Edit: Of the 10 post on this page 6 are directly about who is trolling who.

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Originally Posted by Leonlionheart

DON'T AGREE WITH ME?

MUST BE TROLLIN.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTi7o...eature=related

About that ignore feature =).

Useful is it? Wouldn't have all these arguments if some people didn't have this religious belief that their away of playing is the only way the game should played and all other ways are considered blasphemy. It kills the diversity of how each person chooses to play the job they want and actually enjoy it. It's a game, not a chore or a job. It's suppose to be enjoyed to play however you choose too so don't hang it over some ones head because you "play better".

And inb4 good luck finding a party with whack subjob/equipment. Hard enough to find a party as it is.

It is a shame Camate never can drop by and tell us stuff like "I informed them about idea X, and the developers seemed to like it". It would have been rather nice considering they asked for feedback.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

It is a shame Camate never can drop by and tell us stuff like "I informed them about idea X, and the developers seemed to like it". It would have been rather nice considering they asked for feedback.

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Maybe everyone hates your ideas then? Could be that.

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Originally Posted by Neonii

I want to read about the smn job manifesto on this thread. Why don't one of you make a thread called something like debate vs. trolling and carry on your argument over there? It's not fair to the rest of the summoners for the same people to derail every thread. How about being considerate of the rest of us?

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Pfft, I didn't want to reveal this so early... but we're really all the same poster... you included.

Come on guys give it a rest ._.;; Lets get back on topic ya?

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Originally Posted by Camate

Ramuh: Shock Squall* Lv92
Temporarily prevents enemies within the area of effect from acting.

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Camate, can they give us any spesific info on how long the duration will be, and is this a instant cast BP?

Thanks!:D

I'll start, HEY SE, you totally disappointed us with Dark Ixion... give us our pony!

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Originally Posted by Dallas

I'll start, HEY SE, you totally disappointed us with Dark Ixion... give us our pony!

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Terrible start. You can do worse than that. Anyways....

Yes, but how long has it been since SMN has complained about not getting our pony? Too long.

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Originally Posted by Soundwave

Come on guys give it a rest ._.;; Lets get back on topic ya?



Camate, can they give us any spesific info on how long the duration will be, and is this a instant cast BP?

Thanks!:D

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I don't see why they would change the system for functionality when the theme with Summoner is "Cool stuff implemented wrong". It will obviously have the same ready timer as everything else. Too hard to code special behavior for single pacts. Not to mention this will will 99% of the time be used to stun single target NMs casting AM and such, and it will cost us those times 128 MP or so to use the ability because it is an AOE move.

Sometimes I wish SE gave Summoner a trait that returned MP if an AOE move didn't hit at least 3 targets. (Not including avatar). That way we'd pay the same price as a RDM or WHM or other mage for single target buffs, while we'd be slightly ahead of /SCHs in MP efficiency for a whole party.

Mala, stop being so negative.

SMN is a great job, you just need to play it to realize what is good about it. Yeah, Blood Pacts have a global timer, but when do you change avatars between pacts anyway? If they didn't have a global BP timer, then what is keeping the SMN from Summon > BP > Release > Summon > BP > Release?

Yeah, Ramuh's BP will be -ga, but that is ok when you are fighting multiple mobs at the same time and need to stun them all for the BLM to be able to sleep them all. I can see the possibilities of having 2 stuns without having to worry about 2 different types of accuracy (with BLU) and more than one version of stun every 45 seconds (Weapon Bash and Stun for DRK takes longer than 2 BPs).

Also, about your trait, that wouldn't work because SMN is also a solo job (you would have realized that if you actually played it) so your "trait" wouldn't be effective for those who actually play as SMN.

Like many of you, I wonder on the practicality of this Stunga move which will be directly related to how fast the move will fire. Given the potency of previous added blood pacts, I would expect Shock Squall to be strong as well (at least being on par with what some of the stronger NMs are able to do). If the new job ability planned for SMN will allow us to reduce the ready time as well as the recast for BPs, then Shock Squall will be a very welcome addition to our repertoire. I will reserve judgment until we received more information and/or get a chance to put it through its paces. I can't say I'm too excited about a Stunga for SMN, I personally would have liked to seen an amnesia BP.

Amnesia is fire element, they would have given that to Ifrit.

SE could invent some kind of snapshot effect for certain pacts. But you'd miss out on the gear swaps. So it is a choice between stunning stuff or getting better stun accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Korpg

Amnesia is fire element, they would have given that to Ifrit.

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Like SE has never given BP moves having effects and abilities on Avatars of a different element than thier normal associated element before...

Titan and Stun via Geocrush
Shiva and Sleepga
Ramuh and Paralyze via Thunderspark
Leviathan and Slowga
Diablos and Gravity via Somnolence

You have been playing SMN for a while now? Have these things slipped your mind? You cannot just assume who you think they would of given it to (though your choice make sense and would be a practical one), but that line has already been crossed of not using the obvious Avatar for an ability due to normal element association. They could do it again.

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Originally Posted by Silvers

Like SE has never given BP moves having effects and abilities on Avatars of a different element than thier normal associated element before...

Titan and Stun via Geocrush
Shiva and Sleepga
Ramuh and Paralyze via Thunderspark
Leviathan and Slowga
Diablos and Gravity via Somnolence

You have been playing SMN for a while now? Have these things slipped your mind? You cannot just assume who you think they would of given it to (though your choice make sense and would be a practical one), but that line has already been crossed of not using the obvious Avatar for an ability due to normal element association. They could do it again.

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True, but those blood pacts have been there since SMN was first made. They have been keeping with the element affinity with the avatars as of late (Geocrush with the added effect of stun is just an added effect, not really a reliable stun move).

Almost all BPs have been keeping up with the element with the effect as of late. And most of it was effects you can't get anywhere else (evasion down, attack down mostly, which, if you think about it, still coincides the opposites of the evasion up/attack up effects (fire = attack up, water = attack down, wind = evasion up, ice = evasion down)). It would still make sense if Ifrit gets amnesia effect.

SMN better not complain like RDM, or SE may make Stunga self-only as well...

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Originally Posted by Korpg

True, but those blood pacts have been there since SMN was first made. They have been keeping with the element affinity with the avatars as of late (Geocrush with the added effect of stun is just an added effect, not really a reliable stun move).

Almost all BPs have been keeping up with the element with the effect as of late. And most of it was effects you can't get anywhere else (evasion down, attack down mostly, which, if you think about it, still coincides the opposites of the evasion up/attack up effects (fire = attack up, water = attack down, wind = evasion up, ice = evasion down)). It would still make sense if Ifrit gets amnesia effect.

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It would make sense, but SMN was never one to be tied down by sense lol.

I hope the change Soothing Ruby to heal HP too, or I can see it being used once, and even that's only to see what it looks like.

SE must still be thinking about SMN in campaign battles. These are AoEs that would have been LOVED when people were more active in the wotg areas. They help in Bastion in Scars of Abyssea, but there isn't enough like that. I haven't read the WoE update notes but they 'might' be useful there if more people are doing them after the update.

Pacts hitting whole alliances would have been nice. Sadly CORs and BRDs would complain too much.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

Pacts hitting whole alliances would have been nice. Sadly CORs and BRDs would complain too much.

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When their buffs cost large chunks of MP then they can complain about us lol. That being said, I can't imagine trying to line up 17 people for haste, and retaining much of my sanity for long.

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Originally Posted by Razushu

When their buffs cost large chunks of MP then they can complain about us lol. That being said, I can't imagine trying to line up 17 people for haste, and retaining much of my sanity for long.

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The solution to this is simple: Make the BP ward range larger. Zone-wide should be enough *grins all evil like*

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Originally Posted by Tannlore

The solution to this is simple: Make the BP ward range larger. Zone-wide should be enough *grins all evil like*

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Thay would be hilarious, we could randomly sit in an area freaking people out by spamming glittering ruby.

I still wish SE had given SMN the ability to summon people in party to their location. Shame they took that idea and made a new armor out of it to give as rewards. Reverse D2 sounded like such a funny ability to gain "popularity" with the job. "Need to have 1 SMN with us to refill our ally!" would be the saying for all parties.

Well, you can't really summon them until they are in the same region so not that amazing. But apparently amazing enough for SE to give it a long recast instead of just some 150 MP + 20 seconds casting time.

While some fine tuning is still being performed, the stats for abilities to be introduced in the upcoming version update have been pretty solidified, so here is some follow up information.

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Carbuncle: Soothing Ruby (Lv. 94)
Removes multiple status ailments from party members within area of effect.

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Depending on the level of your summoning magic skill, the number of status ailments removed will vary.

Currently the below is planned:

　 1-100：1
101-200：2
201-300：3
301-400：4
401-500：5
501~　 : 6 (Imagining this to be the cap for the future)

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Ramuh: Shock Squall (Lv. 92)
Temporarily prevents all enemies within area of effect from acting.

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We are planning to set the enmity generated by this to be high.
We are also planning to make the effect duration have a certain range, but we are making adjustments to make it roughly double that of the magic spell “Stun.”

One more thing, please understand that Cait Sith and Atomos are planned for the future.

We will not be implementing every single bit of content planned for the future in the upcoming version update. We’d like to get a wide variety of feedback for all the types of information we bring you, whether they be solidified plans to be implemented immediately, plans only at the discussion phase, or things way out in the future, so we will try our best to give you a lot of information about future content.

A moment there you had me at "removing ailments generates a ton of hate", but it is obviously the stunga ability you meant to quote. No party hitting pact generates any enmity.

Will the other wards get similar scaling adjustments? I'd really like to see for example phalanx scale instead of being -15 damage all levels.

Holy crap, that just made the already best DD in Voidwatch even more valuable.

All those NMs that cast every single AoE debuff in the game, say hello to Carbuncle.

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Originally Posted by Malamasala

A moment there you had me at "removing ailments generates a ton of hate", but it is obviously the stunga ability you meant to quote. No party hitting pact generates any enmity.

Will the other wards get similar scaling adjustments? I'd really like to see for example phalanx scale instead of being -15 damage all levels.

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Fixed that, sorry!!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Fixed that, sorry!!

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Thanks for the info as always! Can't wait :D!