[dev1033] Class name changes

[Fensfield]

[Above]

o.o

Thank you! I guess I missed that one.

Okay reading that I feel much better.. it's renewed my faith in their respect for the game world a bit and all. Admittedly the idea of them being 'better' than the current jobs is... a tiny bit iffy, for me, but the idea of them as specialisations? Definitely!

[Hakutaku]

I strongly support FFT-based advanced classes. The Paladin being 30 GLA 20 CON thing as mentioned.

Edit: And you could do a quest to unlock them after you reach that point.

MMM, yes please.

[solracht]

For the advanced job system: Our current "classes" and the new jobs do not have to conflict. We have nothing more than weapons right now, and we turn into our "classes" for using those weapons.

I think of our current classes as weapons were in XI - in XI they taught you weapon skills every 10-15 levels, and here they teach you a few more things. Granted our weapons are little more complex than that, but we can still work around it.

If we are a paladin, we still "turn" into a sword-user (gladiator) for equipping a sword. We still "turn" into a conjury-user for equipping a wand. The difference is we're a paladin, instead of nothing. We probably can't switch to weapons like lances, hand-to-hand and others, however.

As a paladin we could have special traits to define the job: Affinity+100 with thematic paladin skills (which would allow us to use these skills at full potency regardless of weapon equipped), affinity -50 with the rest (which would ruin any skills paladins "shouldn't" use), job traits (Cover+1, Obsess+2, Damage taken -20%, etc) and whatever else you see fit.

Jobs don't have to make classes (weapons) obsolete, they can be built on them.

With some tweaks (such as limiting the weapons the jobs can use), my vote would definitely go to this guy: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Class-Renaming

[Irishfae]

I will admit up front to not having read the pages between 3 and 13, so my apologies if this repeats in any way.

I am not for renaming the classes that we have currently, but the term ‘prestige class’ (which I believe is back from my D&D tabletop days and I think KotOR has something similar) keeps coming to mind.

In FFXI, I was happily situated as a White Mage. I loved being one, and in XIV I am running around as a Conjuror. Since I see the Conjuror roll very similar to a red mage, I don’t think it would be too far fetched to add the ability to specialize in a magic type.

I also think that the job/subjob mechanics of FFXI should stay there, and not migrate to this game. As much as I am for some improvements that mirror how things happened in XI, I do not want this game to become a revamped version of it. I really love the armory system and could see a specialization system work nicely with it.

Examples of how it could work

You start as a Conjuror and, say, at level 30, you have the option of running a guest to specialize in healing/buffing magic. You are now a Conjuror, with a specialization in white magic.

You could also add that at level 50, you have the option of running another quest to specialize in attack magic. You can now specialize in black magic.
And with specializations you get magic specific to that combination.

So how would you distinguish between specializations? I think one item should represent the specialization (a pendent or something small). But that is my take.

[Alothia]

Why does everyone insist on changing the names to classic final fantasy staples?

I'd rather a system where you could envisage a final fantasy class and make one yourself, using the armory system. It's called role playing, maybe you've seen that somewhere? Oh yeah, probably in the form of "Massive online Role Playing game".

They should keep the generic classes that we have at the moment to be kind of like all-encompassing classes. And within these classes you should have the ability to create your own jobs. Notice the distinction between classes and jobs.

It's like, you go to class to learn. You learn to be able to get a job. Applying this to Final Fantasy XIV, the classes we have now could be the basis for learning, and our final jobs could be anything we so desire: Black mage, red mage, white mage, paladin, etc.

The only problem we have at the moment is that we currently have no support from SE with making these classes. If we want to make our own BLM, we just can't. We're still a Thaumuturge/Conjurer. So it fails.

But that doesn't mean it can't work if they try.

I think they should stick by the philosophy of the armory system ("make your own job"), but support us in our efforts to creating those jobs. The Blackmage gear sets, for example, could give you certain buffs to types of magic, and enfeeble your ability to carry out other kinds of magic.

To use an example, equipping a full blackmage gear set could effectively render your healing spells useless but heighten your attacking spells. This way you can be a blackmage if you so wish, but still within the confines of the armory system, and also still provide you with a bit of creativity and freedom to mix up spells and abilities.

Not everything in the world has to be handed to you and digested passively. An MMO should be about multiple people playing the game as multiple people. Not just about several hundred of the same people with all the same abilities and roles.

The armory system allows for the creation of your designer build already, we should be embracing that, not shooting it down. THe classic jobs can coexist within the boundaries of the ever-flexible armory class system.

This.

Mind you, I have never played another MMO before...and I have never played a FF game before, and maybe that makes my opinion invalid, but I've been playing since Open Beta, and feel that I have earned the right to state my opinion.

Part of what makes this game unique is the class flexibility. They keep talking about "Class Uniqueness." How can we be unique when we are pigeonholed into playing one specific type of character. Doesn't anyone see the merits of the system the way that it is? What happens if you're in a party and you lose one of those vital roles? You might not make it. But if, say, someone could quickly change to fill in that gap, you might be able to hold out until the original person makes it back. I'm not saying that you can't have your advanced classes. I like the idea that equipping gear would give you bonuses to certain stats and nerf others. But I think that forcing us to be one thing or another is not the way to do it. There are merits to the class system...and just because it's new and different doesn't necessarily mean that it's broken.

[Anathiel]

Paladin/Dark Knight
R30 Gladiator
R10 Conjurer
R10 Thaumaturge

Warrior
R30 Marauder
R10 Gladiator

Dragoon
R30 Lancer
R10 Gladiator

White/Black Mage
R30 Conjurer
R15 Thaumature

Samurai
R30 Lancer
R10 Marauder

*I nabbed this from another post!!!! It was originally Corrderio that came up with that, not sure if he's already posted it, but I didn't read the previous 13 pages ^^;*

But yeah, I think something like this would have to go into effect. It's a great system that's been worked into so many other FF titles, and it could still be "unique" in a MMO sense. Now, I just pasted that because it really caught my eye and I think it could use some tweaking. For instance DRK would have to be a MDR/THM combo. I have no idea how they would do RDM or BRD. I mean not every job would have to be a combination of two jobs either, for instance getting PUG to 20 would allow you to go to either Thief or Monk. I'm also on the idea that 30 is too high of a rank to begin switching, 20 should be about the "advance job" point. It gives you the time to become adjusted to the game but not have to dedicate to any one play style. But I'm just a player, I'm giving my two cents and hoping the dev's read your awesome thread

[solracht]

Fodder for the Advanced Classes brigade: http://i56.tinypic.com/2q34wa0.jpg

EDIT: Uploaded a more recent version.

Text is a little hard to read in the templates because I made those pictures smaller to fit them in. I'll fix it eventually, it's not really that important.

[Aion]

How bout this..

lets say we are CON now...and when we equip blackmagecloth+wizardhat and equip Burn(or other R14 offensive spell) automaticaly new SP bar unlocked to class BLM. automatic trait that is [offensive spell+20%MagicPotency buff-10%Duration] while we on "BLM" title, the SP we get also goes to CON...so classing BLM also classing the base job CON

and lets say we are GLA...when we equip platearmor+heavyshield and we equip Cure we automatically titled as PLD..which it has automatic trait that is [Def+20% Healing Potent+10% Evade-10%]...classing PLD also ranking up the base job GLA...

just like that with bit tweaking...maybe we can add quest unlock or something...

================================================

better idea: maybe trait that I mention can be used as "unlocker" opposed to equipping cure or spells, and to get it we must do certain quest.....

[Anathiel]

Fodder for the Advanced Classes brigade: http://i51.tinypic.com/wiq9zr.jpg

I don't know who made this...but I love them. 35 lancer for dragoon? wow. that's alot of grind. I still feel nothing should be over 20.

[Abriael]

Generally, I am in support of this. I would love to see some classic Final Fantasy classes in the mix. And, out of the two ideas Yoshi-P mentioned in his recent interview on eorzeapedia, I prefer the advanced job option, similar to FFXI. Make the classic FF jobs available when certain conditions are met. Possibly a Final Fantasy Tactics-like system. For example, in order to unlock Paladin, you need Gladiator 30 and Conjurer 20. Then maybe you would be able to flag a quest to finally unlock the job.

Edit: Sorry, I should have made this more clear, I'm not for changing the current class names to classic Final Fantasy class names. What I'm asking for is the addition of classic FF classes to the ones we have now.

The only big weak point with this, is that if you implement advanced classes you have to create an entirely new skillset (that involves animations effects and such) for each advanced class you create. I think advocating such an option means overstimating the resources SE can divert from the development of other areas of the game (that need a lot of work, many of them) to creating a large number of advanced classes, relative skillset and all the needed assets.

A possible solution partially retaining the concept of an advanced class would be using advanced classes as a "bonus" on top of normal classes. IE: When you unlock say, Paladin (let's use your example, with GLA 30 and CON 20 but the numbers can be very different, and maybe a quest on top of it), you're entitled to equip holy swords in addition to swords.
You can STILL equip normal swords to be a normal gladiator, with the usual gladiator skillset.
If you equip an Holy Sword, instead, you're a paladin, retaining the same rank as your gladiator (not to force people to level a whole class for just a few skills), you still retain a large part of the gladiator skillset, but some skills are replaced by a more specialized set of skills that are exclusive to paladins (say one every 5-10 levels, depending on resources and implementation costs/times).

Implementing it this way would, IMHO, require a more realistic amount of development resources/time, reintroduce the Final Fantasy flavor classes, help specialization (advanced classes would be more specialized in their skillset), and make happy even the (few?) that still enjoy the previous FFXIV classes, and want to continue playing them without feeling inferior/left behind.