The Actual Problem With Dawntrail

[CaptainLagbeard]

If she wasn't around during most of the scenes where she is then it'd look like she's just sitting on her hands and doing nothing.

That's kind of the source of one of the problems.
It's literally wuk lamat the game. It's not being an expansion to FF XIV.

And doesn't help that wuk is a terribly written character.

[Phaty]

Living memory just feels out of place. I feel it should have been sooner and we spent more time in the golden city and them being just AI, and the golden city being called living memory, could have been something revealed post MSQ. They could have shortened the rite and made Galool ja ja the first trial, valga the 2nd trial and then Zoraal ja the final trial. Save the whole sphene and Alexandria AI arc for post MSQ stuff. My idea would be the rite takes place up to the first trial where you battle Galool Ja Ja at full power, wisdom would wake up for it and isn't dead like in the current story. We then go to the golden city and meet sphene, and while there Zoraal Ja finds out about what's really going on and sets out on what he eventually does. We could still keep Bakool Ja Ja releasing valga for the 2nd trial, and it would be because Zoraal Ja talks him into it or something. Then go into the attack on tuliyollal, Galool Ja Ja dying, then we go on to chase Zoraal Ja.

[Sarnai]

Honestly my main problem is that A LOT of important stuff happens off screen, while some completely trivial things are what we are seeing. Were going through "lets eat, thats how you can learn about culture" at least 3 times through the plot, but the "Alliance with Thavnair" just happened off-screen and mentioned in one line - just so writers, who written themselves into corner can pull out a dragon to destroy ship. (Also conveniently Vrtra can now call for other dragons too. Pretty helpful skill that couldve deen useful in that End of Days thing when his beloved people got killed and stuff huh)

Also, but this is very personal, pre-last zone just destroyed everything for me. If the whole Alexandria was like Living Memory it would be so much cooler, instead we just got weird Cyberpunk bright PC looking city that just doesnt aesthetically fit with anything, and other characters doesnt fit in it too. Even its own habitants. It just looks neony futuristic for the sake of it, contrary to lets say Allagans, that were highly futuristic but still fantasy enough to blend in just fine.

And the whole weird stuff with souls that just completely destroys everything we knew about the soul as a concept. It was stated very early on about how lifestream and rebirth works, that souls go in there, get its aether renewed and then gets reborn back. We also learned just recently that animals dont have "souls" - just aether as in energy.

And now apparently soul can be separated from memories and cleansed, person, that the soul belonged to, can be completely erased from it leaving only aether that can be used. This kinda throws out the window the whole carcass about shards and recollection we had - like what if a soul shard bearer got recycled like that and then the whole shard got joined back to Source, will it be just a lost shard altogether, like 13th situation? Honestly whats the point of souls and shards now, when the whole aether thing is now irrelevant to the whole system? And its after we somehow accepted the fact that "soul can remember stuff after it got into Lifestream because ink blot and blah blah" we learned in Endwalker too.

And not only our character is completely ok with Alexandrians way of using peoples souls (especially after we saw them harvesting said souls from Etheirys), we also are trying to justify it with "oh well its their culture we cant judge". Its like going to the place where people salvage other humans for parts to build themselves some houses, make clothes and eat, and taking it as just their culture that needs to be understood.

And oh now you can take that aether-essense of any animal and imbue yourself with it to get some sick buffs. Strangely we didnt know that, Sharlayan never tried to research that, even Ancients, as aether beings, didnt try to mix animal aether with stuff.because now its the animal soul we are talking about, thing that was stated multiple times "concepts" created by ancients doesnt truly have.

[MartinFreeman]

There is indeed a lot of problems, but Wuk is at the lead of said problems due to how it all wraps up.

[Themarvin]

I it is still only the same 75 people that clicks like or whatever, it does not really reflect the game and the player base.

[Sivante]

I agree with your initial point that Wuk isn't the problem, but the length of DT isn't the issue I think: It is involved however. The whole thing felt rushed, uninformed, and poorly written. You're right in that the bulk of the quests are missing, but they've largely been replaced by cutscenes. But that being said:

I it is still only the same 75 people that clicks like or whatever, it does not really reflect the game and the player base.

You're right. You will see repeat faces in the forums as we're a minority of the players in the game. That being said, no FF14 expansion has recieved as low of review scores as this one. No FFXIV expansion has taken this much heat, been regarded by so much of the community as a failure. If you wish to disregard the opinions of those on the forum that's honestly valid: we're a minority. You can instead direct your attention to the User Reviews on Steam, or even the meta critic User reviews.

I don't feel a need to try to impress upon CBU3 how bad this was, as I see all the evidence necessary to tell me that Square Enix is losing face and money alike on this expansion. I don't need forums to tell me that, there are numbers that tell me that. In the event those were not enough I can check Squenix's stock prices.

Regardless of what you or I think, the message is resoundingly far more negative than any other expansion, and it's going to kick CBU3 in the pants. That is to say, in the money, and losing money is the only review that really matters at the end of the day for them.

[ReynTime]

I agree with your initial point that Wuk isn't the problem, but the length of DT isn't the issue I think: It is involved however. The whole thing felt rushed, uninformed, and poorly written. You're right in that the bulk of the quests are missing, but they've largely been replaced by cutscenes. But that being said:



You're right. You will see repeat faces in the forums as we're a minority of the players in the game. That being said, no FF14 expansion has recieved as low of review scores as this one. No FFXIV expansion has taken this much heat, been regarded by so much of the community as a failure. If you wish to disregard the opinions of those on the forum that's honestly valid: we're a minority. You can instead direct your attention to the User Reviews on Steam, or even the meta critic User reviews.

I don't feel a need to try to impress upon CBU3 how bad this was, as I see all the evidence necessary to tell me that Square Enix is losing face and money alike on this expansion. I don't need forums to tell me that, there are numbers that tell me that. In the event those were not enough I can check Squenix's stock prices.

Regardless of what you or I think, the message is resoundingly far more negative than any other expansion, and it's going to kick CBU3 in the pants. That is to say, in the money, and losing money is the only review that really matters at the end of the day for them.

I wonder about this. Player activity is still pretty high in lieu of everyone doing the new raid. It might fizzle soon. But if it doesn't... What kind of message would Creative Studio (guys they're not "CBU" anymore) 3 get from it? That the quality of the MSQ is irrelevant for player retention?

I'm very curious if this might end up being the conclusion.

[Sivante]

I wonder about this. Player activity is still pretty high in lieu of everyone doing the new raid. It might fizzle soon. But if it doesn't... What kind of message would Creative Studio (guys they're not "CBU" anymore) 3 get from it? That the quality of the MSQ is irrelevant for player retention?

I'm very curious if this might end up being the conclusion.

That... is actually a very good question. I do know the Steam concurrent player metric (I'm very aware it's flawed, but using as an indicator) was temporarily at its highest ever, but we also have seen a mass increase of RMT botting which would artificially spike that number. It certainly seems to me like there are more players than usual despite that:

But I'm also seeing an explosion of players fed up with the material. Be it from the loot treadmill beginning to feel boring and flawed, savages being too easy/hard (take your pick, varies per person), to people just being kind of done with the formulaic releases. I would personally think MSQ is relevant given how much people rave about it and always have (I've never actually enjoyed the story, but haven't hated it until DT.) But I suppose only time will tell. What I can tell is that I'm certain they will see less sales in the sense of trying to item shop anything from DT's MSQ, but ... to your point that may be the limit of what causes them to care about that in relation to money.

I do, personally, think they are about to take a kick in the money and Square Enix is not doing well financially to take such a kick to one of their primary monetary generators. Well, let me rephrase, the stock markets in Japan tell me they will get kicked in the money, but I do think a good portion of that is going to relate back to DT: But I have no evidence of that it's just my personal prediction.

Also, good call on CBU3->CS3. I was ignorant of this, I appreciate the correction.

[Vhana]

What kind of message would Creative Studio (guys they're not "CBU" anymore) 3 get from it? That the quality of the MSQ is irrelevant for player retention?

I'm very curious if this might end up being the conclusion.

The danger is that SE might get that message and be even less supportive in needed resources going to the story production.

I believe CS3, themselves, is more aware than that. They want to continue for another decade and know they are competing against all new entries into the market on story, graphics and gameplay/combat. Even with the graphics update and the encounter designers creativity in working with/around the engine, story is the only aspect they have a clear industry lead on.

[Wildheaven182]

All feedback is always a minority, everywhere all the time. Its impossible to survey a majority of a large population.
Tired of hearing this 6th grade minority excuse.
A minority can still be a plurality, and that doesnt make it invalid.

Now i dont know if we can say dawntrail is a "shorter" expansion, given that it has as much cutscene time as EW, which has the most of any expansion, some 22 hours of cutscenes.
But I'd say if you wanted to watch a nearly entirely silent 22 hour long movie with early 2000s era animation, Dawntrail is for you.