Feedback: FIX YOUR NETCODE!

[caffe_macchiato]

It seems that Reddit and some influencers have asked posters to make new threads on the forums to "get the developers' attention", so I will do the same.

Across English and Japanese threads, there has been a main point of criticism regarding hitboxes in the first boss of Strayborough Deadwalk and the M2 raid. In particular, the "bullet hell"-style mechanic whereby particles fill the stage in a random pattern and players must dodge. Because it is random, they are not telegraphed and your "snapshot" area is invisible; and because they are numerous and fast, they cannot be easily dodged. This results in a greatly increased chance of being "clipped" by the "snapshot" from the particle than when we last saw this mechanic in the Nier raids. This is likely the reason why people are saying raids are "too difficult".

We have seen many other examples of "snapshotting" having a negative effect when a new mechanic is designed without mitigating it. See the Fall Guys thread for all the funny gifs of people missing yet being hit. "Clipping" does exist, and you would otherwise agree if this weren't July 2024.

Many people have lauded the new raids for "increasing the difficulty", but Square Enix has not improved the engine to accommodate. I am asking Square Enix Holdings Co., Ltd. to budget more staff to improve the netcode or reprogram hit detection accordingly. Specifically, you should not have to move out of a mechanic more than one second before it "snapshots". When you have 20 particles on the stage in a random pattern, the time it currently takes to avoid the "snapshot" is far too long. This was not as noticeable in Endwalker because content was easier and didn't have "bullet hell". I am not saying the mechanic needs to be removed, but either hit boxes or netcode needs to be fixed. The quickest fix would be to simply shrink the hit boxes of the particles. The best fix would be to see what the community has done to mitigate "clipping" and integrate that as an official patch.

Note regarding ping: The lowest-ping players in the world (JP) are having the same issues:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/505795

Note regarding "skill issue": a video game requires two things: a controller and video output. The controls are supposed to match the video output. This is called responsiveness. If the video is not responsive to the controls, then it has failed to perform its duty as a video game. Countless video games have been criticized for this issue over the past 40 years. Final Fantasy XIV is not a magical exception to game design. Yes, you can use "skill" (wasting time) to beat a bad game, but it is still a bad game. There is no excuse for a game which cannot match controls to video output.

[VioletCatastrophe]

Feedback: LEARN HOW TO DODGE!

It seems that Reddit and some influencers have asked posters to make new threads on the forums to "get the players' attention", so I will do the same.

Across English and Japanese threads, there has been a main point of criticism regarding hitboxes in the first boss of Strayborough Deadwalk and the M2 raid. In particular, the "bullet hell"-style mechanic whereby particles fill the stage in a predictable pattern and players must dodge. Because it is predictable, they are telegraphed; and because they are somewhat numerous and not too fast, they cannot be trivially dodged. This results in a greatly increased chance of being hit. This is likely the reason why people are saying raids are "too difficult".

We have seen many other examples of snapshotting having a negative effect when players who have played for 10 years without understanding how the game works encounter it. See the Fall Guys thread for all the funny gifs of people getting hit and being confused. People being subpar in this game exist, and you would otherwise agree if this weren't July 2024.

Many people have lauded the new raids for increasing the difficulty, but the playerbase has not actually tried learning the game to accommodate. I am asking the player base to budget more time to improve their skills or complain less on the forums. Specifically, you should have to move out of mechanics. When you have 20 particles on the stage in a pattern, the player should use pattern recognition to dodge it. This was not as noticeable in Endwalker because content was easier, even though many players are complaining about M2 despite the mechanic being identical to Barbaricca which was required by the MSQ. I am not saying the mechanic needs to be removed, because the issue is with the players. The quickest fix would be to improve at the game. The best fix would be to improve at the game and stop complaining.

Note regarding ping: it's a non-issue.

Note regarding "skill issue": I don't have one.

[Kiurt]

I do agree that they need to make the netcode better.

I don't think you should post this in the "Dungeon Section"

Also "skill" (wasting time) ? Since when ? Or maybe I misunderstood what you mean there.

[caffe_macchiato]

Deflection

As I said, Final Fantasy XIV is not exempt from the basic principles of video games which have existed for over 40 years. I understand that people are fans of the game, as am I, but that doesn't change decades of solid design principles. You are asking FFXIV to be so beyond reproach that every single principle of good game design should be discarded just for this game.

If "clipping" was a classic gaming mainstay, then video games never would have become popular. This singular issue was enough to separate the good games from the bad for many years. Even Yoshida agreed that it is be an issue. You are alone in denying it.

I don't think you should post this in the "Dungeon Section"

The forums are being raided by Reddit which is where there are a flood of new threads here. Also, the most nagging issue is in Strayborough Deadwalk as previously mentioned. Unlike M2, there is no AOE visible on the dolls, which means you could "dodge" it but get hit even without snapshotting being a factor--which, in my experience, has definitely been a factor.

[Smoozie]

If "clipping" was a classic gaming mainstay, then video games never would have become popular. This singular issue was enough to separate the good games from the bad for many years. Even Yoshida agreed that it is be an issue. You are alone in denying it.

I opened the link and read the interview, but I am kinda new to this, so not sure what you mean with "clipping" or which section of the interview you referred to (the formatting of the site isn't great so can't blame you there). Could you elaborate a bit as I want to understand the issue better?

[VioletCatastrophe]

The forums are being raided by Reddit which is where there are a flood of new threads here.

No. The FF14 devs only listen to the forums. The forums are inhabited by and large by some of the most entitled and awful players in this game. I don't use reddit, I'm just tired of my voice, of the voice of basically the entire damn playerbase being overshadowed by the loudest and whiniest voices. If this is where I have to go to be heard then I go here. The healer strike was bad enough, but I didn't make an account for that because I genuinely didn't see that going anywhere. This topic on the other hand is extremely important to me.

I've had to deal with absolutely brainmelting trivial content when doing non-endgame stuff for two expansions. I've seen jobs gradually have identity and complexity eroded from them. I've seen the fruits of this forum's complaints manifest in the degradation of this game for multiple expansions. I've had friends quit because they just can't deal with another expansion of falling asleep while playing. These aren't toxic turbo hardcore players either. These are players who play for the MSQ and normal raids and alliance raids and that's it.

We FINALLY have a step in the right direction and we have the forums complaining and demanding SE backpedal. So I'm finally speaking up. You aren't being raided. Your expansions worth of monopoly over getting to say how the game goes is ending.

[Kiurt]

No. The FF14 devs only listen to the forums. The forums are inhabited by and large by some of the most entitled and awful players in this game. I don't use reddit, I'm just tired of my voice, of the voice of basically the entire damn playerbase being overshadowed by the loudest and whiniest voices. If this is where I have to go to be heard then I go here. The healer strike was bad enough, but I didn't make an account for that because I genuinely didn't see that going anywhere. This topic on the other hand is extremely important to me.

I've had to deal with absolutely brainmelting trivial content when doing non-endgame stuff for two expansions. I've seen jobs gradually have identity and complexity eroded from them. I've seen the fruits of this forum's complaints manifest in the degradation of this game for multiple expansions. I've had friends quit because they just can't deal with another expansion of falling asleep while playing. These aren't toxic turbo hardcore players either. These are players who play for the MSQ and normal raids and alliance raids and that's it.

We FINALLY have a step in the right direction and we have the forums complaining and demanding SE backpedal. So I'm finally speaking up. You aren't being raided. Your expansions worth of monopoly over getting to say how the game goes is ending.

I mean, in this case, they're not talking about boss fights design. Just that they should improve their overall netcode.

Just to take the Fall Guys event : People thinking they're first and losing to someone that was behind them on their screen.

Also the bullet-hell mechanic, in itself isn't a problem if you're focusing on only dodging. If you're also focusing on uptime, and want to dodge when it gets nearby, well, sometimes it works, sometimes you get hit from 2 meters away and sometimes you can nearly hug the moving projectile. Is it gamebreaking ? Can be depending on how Savage will be. Is it annoying ? Yes. It was already an issue with the red balls in the Nier raid.

But nothing in OP post was about the "new" fights design and how impossible it is to do them.

[Arohk]

Don't stone me on the accuracy about this, but when you see orbs flying around it is something like this

[caffe_macchiato]

I opened the link and read the interview, but I am kinda new to this, so not sure what you mean with "clipping" or which section of the interview you referred to (the formatting of the site isn't great so can't blame you there). Could you elaborate a bit as I want to understand the issue better?

As Yoshida put it: "Every time you take an action in the game, the game will communicate with the server, check for cheating and come back afterwards. This creates a delay that an offline game doesn't have, since there's no need to check on the Internet."

FFXIV has some designs to mitigate this. One is called "snapshots". If you're in the telegraph (orange circle) zone when the enemy's cast bar stops casting, you are "snapshotted" to that zone. Then the boss animation plays, sometimes a few seconds afterwards. So it doesn't matter what the boss does, if you were in the AOE, you're hit even if you're not visibly "hit" by a boss animation.

This design works when telegraphs exist, a cast bar exists, and there is ample time to move. If there are no telegraphs or cast bars, such as in the Fall Guys event, people expect to be hit by the animation instead, leading to a few seconds' miscalculation per above. Or, as in the new raids: there are telegraphs but not a cast bar. If mechanics are too fast, you have to move in and out of AOEs quickly without time to deliberate the "snapshot" period per the cast bar, thus the Fall Guys effect.

Furthermore, there's an even worse issue when considering the lag between your movement and the server recognizing it. You move a second before the server recognizes it. This means that, even if you dodge the "snapshot", you can still be caught in the snapshot, called "clipping". When mechanics are fast, like the new raids, this can happen a lot more often. It's usually found with high ping, but even Japanese players are having an issue with the new content because of faster and overlapping mechanics.

Any and all design issues with the new content can be fixed with better netcode. The challenge would be seen as fair (improvable with practice) rather than unfair (random and not responsive to skill) with zero change to the fight design itself. Otherwise, changes to design would have to be made to reduce the complexity of mechanics. As a certain other poster said, we have had easy content for "two expansions" (actually longer) because of this. For Dawntrail, the dev team decided to remove their old precautions. The above problems are a result.

[Shurrikhan]

I opened the link and read the interview, but I am kinda new to this, so not sure what you mean with "clipping" or which section of the interview you referred to (the formatting of the site isn't great so can't blame you there). Could you elaborate a bit as I want to understand the issue better?

In typical XIV parlance, "clipping" refers to potential uptime (the amount of time for which you could be using an action, especially a spell or weaponskill) lost.

One of the most significant reasons for this is that whereas other games compensate your internal skill delays for whatever time is taken to verify server-side that your skill activation is legit, XIV does not. This means your roundtrip ping is added to the time after using a skill for which you cannot use another.

For GCDs, this is mitigated somewhat, but oGCDs are not. Therefore, a low-ping player can potentially triple-weave where a moderate-ping player cannot quite even double-weave without losing uptime.