Do you know why the average pf player is so bad?

[Jeeqbit]

What is "legacy movement" ? 5 years in the game, and I never heard of that x)

It's exactly what I described. With standard movement, the direction of your character is tied to the camera, so mouse movement controls the direction your character faces and therefore you have to move the mouse or slowly turn around, before you can begin running out of an AoE.

With legacy movement, the direction of your character is not tied to the camera, so if you press backwards, instead of slowly walking back, your character immediately turns around and runs out of the AoE. It makes the game significantly easier. It's such an advantage that it trivializes mechanics compared to standard.

I was helping some people with P10S recently and saw a few of them were struggling to avoid the chains and getting Doom. We explained about legacy and it transformed the game for them. Just an example.

(It's in Character Configuration, under Control Settings and General. I personally disable auto-fly/auto-dive)

[Kacho_Nacho]

One reason might be because they're handicapped. Like me with two bad hands and bad hearing. They also might be new and their first time doing the duty. I have seen bots in my party from duty finder. Get a bot tank or healer and the party will be very bad.

Being handicapped definitely affects my game play. I even had the tank ask if I was trolling in a recent raid. (It was the one where you fight Nophica and some of the other Twelve).

I told him truthly I wasn't. "I'm just really bad at that particular raid."

It 100% comes down to the fact I am fighting my body and mind to react to mechanics and that doesn't give me much time to react to things. Usually, I just avoid those types of duties/raids but sometimes you just have to take what the roulette gives you.

But... I still try to be a good player by learning my rotations, reading tooltips, and watching videos.

It's exactly what I described. With standard movement, the direction of your character is tied to the camera, so mouse movement controls the direction your character faces and therefore you have to move the mouse or slowly turn around, before you can begin running out of an AoE.

With legacy movement, the direction of your character is not tied to the camera, so if you press backwards, instead of slowly walking back, your character immediately turns around and runs out of the AoE. It makes the game significantly easier. It's such an advantage that it trivializes mechanics compared to standard.

I was helping some people with P10S recently and saw a few of them were struggling to avoid the chains and getting Doom. We explained about legacy and it transformed the game for them. Just an example.

(It's in Character Configuration, under Control Settings and General. I personally disable auto-fly/auto-dive)

Thanks for the tip! It sounds like something I need to try.

[Nadda]

Being handicapped definitely affects my game play. I even had the tank ask if I was trolling in a recent raid. (It was the one where you fight Nophica and some of the other Twelve).

I'm completely tolerant if someone is handicapped long as they say they are at the start.
I remember one time waiting on a main tank in Praetorium of all things - it was right before you get to ride the magitech war mecha - I can't remember the particulars but they needed to replace some tube thing that was attached to their body.
I was like sure and waited and so did everyone else.

I'm not sure how niche the handicapped audience is but that's not particularly what I reckon most of us are covering.
Even then if it's somebodies first time or they don't get something - I'll always be patient and ride it through.
If you don't give up I won't give up.

The issue we're talking about has more to do with other people who face a skill wall and quit because the game hasn't taught them well

[Jeeqbit]

It 100% comes down to the fact I am fighting my body and mind to react to mechanics and that doesn't give me much time to react to things. Usually, I just avoid those types of duties/raids but sometimes you just have to take what the roulette gives you.

Being a tank can be useful if you are handicapped, because tanks can survive mechanics that other players can't. They can usually just rack up at least 4 vuln stacks without any problem. Whereas other roles will die to those mechanics. Of course, the tanks should do mechanics, but frankly they are fine if they don't a lot of the time.

I'm not sure how niche the handicapped audience is

It's not as niche as you think. In fact, most people (at least older people) probably have one. It's just not necessarily severe enough that it affects them in a noticeable way. For example, they might be color blind or get pain in their hand or arm from playing too long or suffer from an injury, while for others it's more severe like limited hand movement, not being able to keep their hands still, only having one arm, or memory disabilities.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Being a tank can be useful if you are handicapped, because tanks can survive mechanics that other players can't. They can usually just rack up at least 4 vuln stacks without any problem. Whereas other roles will die to those mechanics. Of course, the tanks should do mechanics, but frankly they are fine if they don't a lot of the time.

That thought has already crossed my mind. I'm already planning for Dawntrail to be my tanking and painting expansion. LOL

It's not as niche as you think. In fact, most people (at least older people) probably have one. It's just not necessarily severe enough that it affects them in a noticeable way. For example, they might be color blind or get pain in their hand or arm from playing too long or suffer from an injury, while for others it's more severe like limited hand movement, not being able to keep their hands still, only having one arm, or memory disabilities.

Exactly. There are a lot of us disabled players in FFXIV.

Think about it for one second.

Individuals who are disabled are often stuck at home. They want to interact with people. So, they join MMOs like FFXIV to have that social interaction and also the opportunity to do something enjoyable.

Unfortunately, they sometimes struggle with things other players do with ease. This causes frustration on both sides.

But, I do think there is a lot of middle ground. It's just that, well, people are taking extreme positions on the issue of how challenging the game should be and how well should your average player be. It's the old Casuals versus Raiders dynamic.

Thoughts:

FFXIV does need another overhaul to adjust the slope of difficulty. There should be a smooth curve in the challenge of the content with each duty/raid preparing you for the next step.

There should also be better education within the game to teach individuals how to play. For example, the Training Grounds could be expanded to prepare players for the mechanics they will be facing soon and their telegraphs.

Have it be required content for levels 15, 30, 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90 with the reward being a certificate required to get into the appropriate duties and raids. It's similar to the idea of having gear level requirements but relies more on the player's effort to learn rather than their luck with gear drops or skill at making gil.

Just my 2¢s...

[strawberrycake]

Exactly. There are a lot of us disabled players in FFXIV.

Think about it for one second.

Individuals who are disabled are often stuck at home. They want to interact with people. So, they join MMOs like FFXIV to have that social interaction and also the opportunity to do something enjoyable.

Unfortunately, they sometimes struggle with things other players do with ease. This causes frustration on both sides.

But, I do think there is a lot of middle ground. It's just that, well, people are taking extreme positions on the issue of how challenging the game should be and how well should your average player be. It's the old Casuals versus Raiders dynamic.

Thoughts:

FFXIV does need another overhaul to adjust the slope of difficulty. There should be a smooth curve in the challenge of the content with each duty/raid preparing you for the next step.

I also feel like a lot of people assume so much with terms and phrases when it comes to changing the game. Making the game difficult or making it harder. If I say It I don't mean Touhou Bullet Hell levels of difficult or hard. But adding enrages back wouldn't hurt, making it so Alliance raids feel like a step up from dungeons so they can ease you into extremes isn't bad either. You have some who will assume that creating a guiding line with the difficulty of content means you wanna force people into harder content, railroad them even, But thats not the case at all.


What XIV needs, like you said, like so many of us have said, is a better way to show and teach and prepare people for and with it's difficulty curve, instead of raising or lowering the skill floor and ceiling forcefully or mechanically, do it naturally by creating a way in which players are not only progressing through the games world and narrative, but as they lvl progress into being better overall players.

[Merrigan]

It's exactly what I described. With standard movement, the direction of your character is tied to the camera, so mouse movement controls the direction your character faces and therefore you have to move the mouse or slowly turn around, before you can begin running out of an AoE.

With legacy movement, the direction of your character is not tied to the camera, so if you press backwards, instead of slowly walking back, your character immediately turns around and runs out of the AoE. It makes the game significantly easier. It's such an advantage that it trivializes mechanics compared to standard.

I was helping some people with P10S recently and saw a few of them were struggling to avoid the chains and getting Doom. We explained about legacy and it transformed the game for them. Just an example.

(It's in Character Configuration, under Control Settings and General. I personally disable auto-fly/auto-dive)

But does it affect your dps? I mean, as a melee there are plenty of moments where you can get out while sticking to the mob; using movement as you describe it is a dead loss, compared to using the mouse (which I always keep down anyway, personally)?

And turning your character completely, if you need to get away from something very quickly, doesn't take "a second". It's immediate with camera movement + straff to the side.

... I swear, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, it's just that I don't understand the point of losing such a practical bind as the "s" (= backward on my keyboard) when you can simply hold down the right mouse button at any time to have better control .

[Jeeqbit]

But does it affect your dps?

If you die to a mechanic or get a damage down due to struggling to avoid mechanics, yes! Also means you can greed for longer because it takes less time to navigate out of an AoE.

I mean, as a melee there are plenty of moments where you can get out while sticking to the mob; using movement as you describe it is a dead loss, compared to using the mouse (which I always keep down anyway, personally)?

I don't personally agree. I used to do Savage in Heavensward with standard and I could do all the mechanics, but I was just barely achieving them all and it was very last moment stuff, very tense. It's comparatively braindead with legacy and not really tense at all.

And turning your character completely, if you need to get away from something very quickly, doesn't take "a second". It's immediate with camera movement + straff to the side.

Well it's good you found a workaround. Like I said, some people prefer it or find a way to make it work.

[Merrigan]

If you die to a mechanic or get a damage down due to struggling to avoid mechanics, yes! Also means you can greed for longer because it takes less time to navigate out of an AoE.

I don't personally agree. I used to do Savage in Heavensward with standard and I could do all the mechanics, but I was just barely achieving them all and it was very last moment stuff, very tense. It's comparatively braindead with legacy and not really tense at all.

Well it's good you found a workaround. Like I said, some people prefer it or find a way to make it work.

I honestly don't see how you can struggle to avoid mecanics with the straffing method (< this is not ironic, once again), but indeed : if it works for you, then it's better to do it this way.

[CidHeiral]

If you die to a mechanic or get a damage down due to struggling to avoid mechanics, yes! Also means you can greed for longer because it takes less time to navigate out of an AoE.

I don't personally agree. I used to do Savage in Heavensward with standard and I could do all the mechanics, but I was just barely achieving them all and it was very last moment stuff, very tense. It's comparatively braindead with legacy and not really tense at all.

Well it's good you found a workaround. Like I said, some people prefer it or find a way to make it work.

I've used the standard control scheme in MMOs for 20+ years, including various high end content, and have never had a single issue. It's absurd to write off the entire control scheme as inferior just because you personally struggled with it.