G-give it Back T---T; !!

[CelestiCer]

My bet are instacasts. After all, melee with hardcasts is about only identity SAM has left, which makes me think this is what they'll focus on removing next. They can use that action bloat excuse again, but now it would be justified, since hardcasts do make weaving harder. Other than that and positionals, I really don't know what else could they possibly take from SAM without fully reworking it and creating another SMN.

To put salt into wound, they'll bring back Kaiten, but now it's not tied to Kenki, it has regular CD, and makes Iaijutsu instacast.

Wouldn't surprise if this were to happen... Even the short discussion today in the Balance about " Tenka Goken " being easier or not as a Circle or Cone... reminded me that a good portion of the player-base champion the idea that...

" If it's that easy to do? Remove it / change it to whatever is that is easier now"
Heck... they would encourage it. And rather or not what was removed will be replaced with something new and improved any time soon or ever? is up in the air with question marks. Why are we surprised that Square makes everything hollower if this is the line of thinking people encourage... We truly get abysmal suggestions with this line of thinking like Meditate/Hagakure/Positional removal, which is in line with removing cast-time from SAM. Bit-by-Bit making it easier/comfier/cozier then it already is or ever needs to be... making the gameplay bland/boring/unengaging. And I make it sound like its going to happen... it kinda already has.

Not to spread doom and gloom and meme's aside? I love FFXIV still, I would not be on the forums if I didn't... otherwise I'd be silent and not giving a damn and not playing. And even though I don't agree with some things Yoshi P states? there's one line I remember that just fits with this...

" if given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of the game "
Streamlining our Rotations and the Job designs? just feels in line with this. Not that I blame players for it as they aren't the once that coded the changes... But accepting every change coming our way in silence? is not helping it if you ask me if what players want is having their jobs be a lil more engaging then it is, mhm.

[Deo14]

Wouldn't surprise if this were to happen... Even the short discussion today in the Balance about " Tenka Goken " being easier or not as a Circle or Cone... reminded me that a good portion of the player-base champion the idea that...

" If it's that easy to do? Remove it / change it to whatever is that is easier now"
Heck... they would encourage it. And rather or not what was removed will be replaced with something new and improved any time soon or ever? is up in the air with question marks. Why are we surprised that Square makes everything hollower if this is the line of thinking people encourage... We truly get abysmal suggestions with this line of thinking like Meditate/Hagakure/Positional removal, which is in line with removing cast-time from SAM. Bit-by-Bit making it easier/comfier/cozier then it already is or ever needs to be... making the gameplay bland/boring/unengaging. And I make it sound like its going to happen... it kinda already has.

Not to spread doom and gloom and meme's aside? I love FFXIV still, I would not be on the forums if I didn't... otherwise I'd be silent and not giving a damn and not playing. And even though I don't agree with some things Yoshi P states? there's one line I remember that just fits with this...

" if given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of the game "
Streamlining our Rotations and the Job designs? just feels in line with this. Not that I blame players for it as they aren't the once that coded the changes... But accepting every change coming our way in silence? is not helping it if you ask me if what players want is having their jobs be a lil more engaging then it is, mhm.

Unfortunately, streamlining is inevitable at this point, because game has only 4 job designers. I wouldn't be surprised that whenever those 4 overworked employees see a suggestion on how to streamline something, they'll push for it, just so they can hopefully catch some break in the future.

I've found 4 years old thread about this problem, and so far, there was no additions to their team.

Here's some quote from the author:

Please don't take this as me bashing Sato and his team. I will always stand by my opinion that they did an incredible job with ARR.

However, the number of jobs has increased, the complexity per job has increased, the community's understanding of the game has increased and with that, the demands and expectations of the player base have increased exponentially.

Meanwhile, Sato has had the same 3 people behind him since ARR and I've not seen anything to suggest that anything has changed for Shadowbringers. It's quite apparent now that this team is overworked, understaffed and starved for fresh creative ideas in many aspects of the gameplay that they oversee.

4 people managing 19 jobs, adding 10 levels worth of skills for each of them, each expansion, on top of 2 brand new jobs is simply way too much for such a small team, no matter how good they are. Team simply needs an expansion. There is no wonder that there are so many simplifications and homogenizations, they need to do them so they can keep up the pace. Complexity of original ARR jobs was spread into current 19 jobs, and as a result, nearly all of them feel very shallow.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even simulate new Kaitenless SAM to find out that Kaiten removal reduced possible action bloat only by <10% in the most optimistic scenarios and overall didn't really fix anything. They probably worked on this after release of EW, and they needed to use data from 6.0 to change and balance all jobs, in order to release it in 6.1, so the biggest changes get tested before new tier comes out.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The problem is you accepted the nerf of setsugekka and it's new form on a 2min CD without complaint.



That was the biggest issue with 6.0 sam, not kaiten. But keep on your silly crusade and watch as they nerf more skills only to add them back at their original potencies on long timers in the next expansion.

[CelestiCer]

The problem is you accepted the nerf of setsugekka and it's new form on a 2min CD without complaint.

That was the biggest issue with 6.0 sam, not kaiten. But keep on your silly crusade and watch as they nerf more skills only to add them back at their original potencies on long timers in the next expansion.

Never have I stated I willingly accepted any of the changes... Hell we're both raiding and still playing the game so to some degree we both accepted the changes, begrudgingly? Yet we're still here playing. We just dislike different things that got changed and value different things.

When " Ogi Namikiri " was introduced... Midare: Setsugekka was just rebalanced to be in line with Caster damage, which already you were highlighted in the Balance Discord regarding this topic. Ogi Namikiri also serves as a really good filler to make our new rotation loop if you know the concept of looping outside of its Cooldown. Now, that it's a 2 minute cooldown however... is a much larger topic towards the 2 minute meta that i dislike? But that has been pretty much shoved onto everyone, this is not a Samurai exclusive thing/problem/issue if you do not like the 2 min meta as it is now.

As for " Hissatsu: Kaiten " not affecting us or not the problem? I mean look at this list and look what happened to that precious Midare: Setsugekka you value once it was removed...



As you can see? The potency we channeled from Kaiten through our Iaijutsu's including Midare did not get spread onto our iaijutsu's after Kaiten removal it just got spread throughout everything...

Yoshi P admitted to what makes those jobs appealing are big crits, and if you valued Midare as the hard hitting skill? then yes this affectd it. Not to mention the initial start of Auto Crits being implemented at the time being horrendous ( which I also don't agree with, but they improved it afterwards after the JP Samurai's were super super super angry... ). Still? Samurai as job... Hits hard... and its DPS performance is not really something I am interested in as Numbers can be fixed at anytime a lot easier vs Lost Skills being a lot harder to regain or replaced with something better any time soon, mhm.

[Post]

They've been doing that since StB WAR and SCH. Inner Release = more *cough* weaker*cough* fell cleaves. And look at the ShB and EW capstone actions.

SCH lost rouse and weakened Embrace to gain Fey Union, what heals a single target for about as much as HW Rouse Embrace did, and got excogitation, or 'strong Lustrate' on a cooldown.

Or further still with Stone 3 and Broil. It's telling that every other non healer job got only new things through HW and only started getting things culled or straight upgraded after StB, but for the most part folks either like the new animations or using the special version helps make it feel fresher to play at a certain point.

NIN's Hyosho Ranryu (blue shurikens) is an economical version of this because the actual input is different to what you'd normally press instead up until that point (Ration), compared to healers which just 'auto buff' or WAR that now simply 'smart buffs.'

I don't think that this qualifies as the biggest issue of 6.0 SAM as a result. The 2 min meta and it gaining Meikyo Shisui and Tsubame-Gaeshi charges affected its actual play more overall. Small example, self buffs coming from finishers under Meikyo exists purely so that SAM conforms neatly into their pretty little picture.

[Post]

Who the hell designed the pvp jobs. Was it the same team of 4? Cuz that crew or person slaps

[AngelCheese77]

You can have Kaiten back when I get Aero III back

[CelestiCer]

You can have Kaiten back when I get Aero III back

Hmm... Can't see an angle to argue this point...

( Thinks deeply for a brief moment... )









Quick! Someone get em their " Aero III " for my " Hissastu: Kaiten " - Forthwith!!! mhm!!

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Hmm... Can't see an angle to argue this point...

( Thinks deeply for a brief moment... )









Quick! Someone get em their " Aero III " for my " Hissastu: Kaiten " - Forthwith!!! mhm!!

Im in this Fight, freaking Bring Back Aero3 Mothafu---
Sucks Applying Aero to each individual Enemy.
Plus both Aeros Stacked, adding DPS...I miss that

[CelestiCer]

Im in this Fight, freaking Bring Back Aero3 Mothafu---
Sucks Applying Aero to each individual Enemy.
Plus both Aeros Stacked, adding DPS...I miss that

Often I go into PF to help reclear or prog Savage fights. Just to meme every wipe the party tends to make? I just name up old skills we lost and blame it on us not having it anymore.

- See... if we but still had Hissatsu: Kaiten? that would have been a Clear
- Aero III would have made this a clear run, mhm
- If MNK still had their positionals, boss be dead by now ( looks at the P10 bosses hitbox... )
- Let me guess... that was cause of Kaiten?
- No that one was cause we had no Hissatsu: Seigan, obviously...
- Dude if I had my Dark Arts / See you're getting x3
- There's no way to tilt if we don't blame it on a team member
- Exactly we just blame it on not having Hissatsu: Kaiten
- I'm starting to believe it... cause if I had SMN dots still...
- There proof! that if we had!! Hissa-/ No DNC just Dc'd / I mean... same thing...

Gets a good laugh out of it every now and then to keep morale going mhm xD