Quote Originally Posted by Renathras View Post
No, I'm not saying they're mechanically similar - if we ONLY look at their number of nuke casts...which IS significant because they are used so much but is also NOT the entirety of what goes into playing Jobs - I'm saying whether that feels different to people or not IS subjective.

To you, WHM and SGE feel identical, right?
YES, because guess what? Dpsing is what we do for the most part and that part is identical, only difference you can feel is AoE,buff optimization and even their resources generate at the same rate and are used in similar ways, if for you having different animations is enough I'm glad for you but I play an MMO not a movie and thus only different shiny animations is not nearly enough.


And even if we look at the raw numbers of all their GCD attacks and only look at attack spells (whether or not we count Afflatus Solace/Rapture as that), they're not identical. Assize works nothing like Plegma, which isn't used like it. Misery and Toxicon are not at all alike.
True in a gcd basis they're only an 85% the exact same job and over the whole fight they are only 65% the same job THEY ARE SO DIFFERENT. Honestly I don't know how someone can look at those logs and still defend SE crap design

SCH's core identity wasn't gutted.
It was the moment they removed the dots, deleted a fairy, changed the way it worked and remove any kind of micro management.

It's not because the skill ceiling is low - I get Gray/Green in Savage, Green/BARELY Blue in Extremes; you "skilled" players are easily able to get higher skill expression out of the Jobs - it's that the game doesn't explain these concepts and so the general playerbase legitimately doesn't know about them. (NOTE for reference: I don't run any stuff, I just look my name up now and again on the forbidden site out of curiosity)
Quoting this because there are 2 things I want to unpack:

-I do agree that the game barely teach anything and I wish SE did something related to that

-If you yourself don't run content and admit to not have much experience then my question is, What makes you think that your changes are good to the game when you don't even comprehend the true extent of those systems you're planning to change? This is not a "Hawking don't understand the mind of the normal person" this is more like someone trying to eliminate all the quantum theory because they don't know how to work with eigenvalues.

and that leads me to the next point

Note you even made the point: "go to any savage fight you want" - the thing that less than 30%, if that, of the player base even attempts.
(over 50% of the max level population try them)

I say that because the changes you proposed for "skill ceiling" WOULD ONLY AFFECT THEM, for the majority of the playerbase that do not play into raid buffs/don't use them properly your change of toxicon is just a removal of skill ceiling while getting nothing in exchange.

It seems like a large chunk of the healer community WANT to cast GCD heals and that be a core part of their playstyle.
And that's why in Ty's poll the most requested change were offensive actions and the 2nd most requested removal was GCD healing actions (most requested in WHM case) followed by oGCD healing actions, right?

It's also a reason that WHM Lilies/Misery is so well received, because it effectively lets you use Cure 2/Medica without penalty, at least occasionally.
Not exactly that, Missery change was well recieved because it allows whm to have something because until that change afflatus was a dumpster fire almost of the same magnitud of 5.0 Sch without ED, Whm's were discouraged to interact with their core system in any way and were widely considered a liability compared to Ast

The key of afflatus is how they are balanced because Whm lacks oGCD healing on the same degree the rest of the healers have and that ocasionally you mentioned, those two things keep Whm in check and having a ceiling because similar to the oGCDs of other jobs those GCDs are part of a limited, time/resource based set of tools that the healer want to maximize.

Your proposal of damage neutral toxicon would be like making cure1,2,3 medica 1,2 and regen generate lillies, it would be a mess because it would only increase RNG reliance of the job while removing that skillful play of trying to maximize the limited resources.


After reading this I honestly believe that you should try to optimize the damage on WHM or SGE in any mild-intense healing enviroment, I think it would help you to see why those changes would hurt the game since it looks that there are some core concepts on the healing that you do not have interioriced.