Thread: Dragoon 6.2 Civil discussion thread

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That too would be fixed by the aforementioned suggestion. By having the lead LotD-entering Geirskogul convert to a LotD-entering Nostrand that, via LotD, allows up to 2 more uses of Nostrand in the next 30 seconds (10s ICD retained), you'd drop out of LotD upon using the second (previously third) Nostrand, rather than only after 30 seconds, which then again allows you to queue Geirskogul that 30s after entering LotD, since it wouldn't be locked behind an unusable Nostrand key.

Having LotD end right after the last NAS is literally Enshroud. We don't want to be RPR 2.0 with oGCDs, and doing so would make LotD less relevant since the ideal situation would be to make LotD interact more with other parts of our kit like our GCDs.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That has more to do with Sprints and gathers (having not enough mobs in range of GSK for it to be worthwhile) than LotD windows. The LotD windows are determined by Mirage Dive, not HJ itself, and shuffling either among HJ and GSK by 0.6 seconds isn't going to give you more 60-second windows.

No, it doesn't have to do with mobs being gathered. It has to do with the fact that it is HJ (and MD) the abilities that generate eyes, not GSK. It is very common for a pull to be almost dead by the time your HJ comes back on CD and getting an extra eye in this situation will likely guarantee extra LotD windows. This is why in content like dungeons you want to go this route, to ensure the maximum amount of Life windows possible, and this is also why it's done in DSR in order to squeeze more eyes and thus more Life windows or in P3S before adds for the exact same reason.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

There is, even there, no reason to hit a third Mirage Dive before entering LotD

You don't use MD with 2 eyes up, you use LotD and then MD. Making HJ give the eye directly means that GSK must always come before HJ or we overcap eyes. If we, once again, take DSR into account, you come back from a mechanic and now you have 32s to deal damage... you want HJ to be your first attack to ensure you get that extra eye at the end of this phase. If GSK had to be used before, you'd lose one eye that you could've had. Thus making HJ give the eye directly and always force DRG to use GSK before HJ is removing job flexibility, even if full uptime scenarios can perfectly go GSK > HJ, but the game is not always composed of full uptime scenarios. Removing MD would be a huge mistake.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Jump and MD, meanwhile, contribute more than double GSK's ST potency, so if you're going to maintain an alignment at cost of a skill not falling under raid buffs that weren't pushed back raid-wide, it will generally be GSK. Buffer death aside, that shouldn't happen regardless, but the way the skills work incentivize the most straightforward, repetitive, unnuanced option possible in virtually every case.

Except very special cases (some DSR phases for example), they do not fall out of raid buffs, they're just used in different order.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

We can argue whether that's better overall, for the purpose of smoothness over depth, but DRG is rather unvaried and uncompromising now compared to, say, Stormblood.

Forcing GSK > HJ all the time is removing variability from the job, and I know several people in the JP DRG forum asking them not to touch it because they prefer going HJ > GSK all the time regardless.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Currently you get your first Wyrmwind after the 11th GCD, and then every 10 GCDs thereafter, overcapping per 5.

With the given suggestion, you'd get your first Wyrmwind after the 6th GCD, and then every 10 GCDs thereafter, overcapping only per 10 GCDs.

I don't think you have understood my suggestion: RT/DF do not give a scale on their own, they can only give a scale under the effect of Draconian Fire, just like Leaden Fist. Bootshine only crits with the Leaden Fist buff on. Nothing changes at all. It's the exact same thing but instead of having an initial TT with 230 potency, you have a RT with 280 potency. Nothing else changes. It's purely an aesthetic change because having a random single TT (or 2-3 if there's long downtime) over the course of a fight makes no sense.

It should be a permanent upgrade. Which other job uses a weaponskill only once and never again in their rotation? I guess RPR's Harvest Moon, but that's a special attack reserved for specific moments, not a required thing. Blood Stalk does fall in the TT category I guess, but it doesn't look awful like TT.

The opener would be:

1. RT > 2. DE (LC + DS) > 3. CS (BL) > 4. WT (GSK + LS) > 5. FnC (HJ) - Draconian Fire granted here as usual - > 6. RT (DFD + MD) - one scale granted here - > 7. VT (SSD + LS) > 8. HT (SSD) > 9. FnC > 10. WT - Buffs fall off right after this GCD is performed, Draconian Fire granted here - > 11. RT (WWT) - second scale granted here.

Scale generation is completely unchanged.

Originally Posted by Rika007

I just do think it is important that one thing we need to recognize is that the dev team are not looking at this from just a stand point of RIGHT NOW. They are looking at the next 4-5 expansions of development. Yoshi-P stated they expect another 10 more years of this game. We can reasonably expect 3-5 new iterations of these jobs. DRG may feel perfect now, but will it when they add new stuff to it's rotation next expac? And more the expac after that? I don't think so, and I don't think players will be satisfied with just superficial animation changes for a decade.

But no one is saying that they can't change the job. What the playerbase is suggesting is for them to ask for feedback before implementing the changes. For them to be open about it and to take our opinion and thoughts into account. And most importantly, for these changes to happen at the end or beginning of an expansion, not in the middle of one after having given us a new version of the job. Unless a job is broken and needs help, extensive changes should not happen when we've barely had a year to enjoy the new tools given to us in EW.