Basic Competence

[Deveryn]

Backing up the idea that this is actually Crystal Conflict, not just KO the enemy. That checkpoint matters! People make the same misconception in the Frontline modes and that's why they lose. Two teams will get stuck fighting each other while the third picks up the big targets.

[Tobias_Azuryon]

If you're killing the enemy team then they won't be alive to contest the actual push to the goal.

Your goal is killing the enemy team. If the enemy team is dead, they cannot contest the push. You should never, ever have your team just sitting around AFK on the point unless all of the enemies are dead or otherwise unable to be reached.

The goal is not to kill the enemy team. It's to push the crystal. You can kill their team all day long but if one dude manages to push that crystal an inch further you're going to lose anyway.

They're not sitting "AFK" either. You're actually avoiding keeping one other person "afk" to help with the overall push. By breaking the first checkpoint immediately/fast you can more easily/quickly push to the finish vs having not done so or vs leaving someone behind to get ganked while the rest of the dps go be heroes or something.

You can:

1. Spend more time and effort fighting people in spawn while the checkpoint slowly loads giving even one chance at them deleting the person on top of it or stopping it from being pushed

-or-

2. You can immediately cap point and then go back to murder house resting assured that the crystal will move in the right direction so long as you're holding the line.

The latter requires LESS afk time and time wasted, and doesn't require dps raising the risk of getting faceplanted if something goes awry in enemy territory.

3 players running in to contest the checkpoint against a full team are just suiciding and adding to their respawn timers.

This is also wrong as LBs have proven. Summoner LB, DRG LB, WHM LB WAR LB, etc etc all punish group ups. 3 LBs back to back can instantly turn the tide. If even one person gets past you enough to lb the person holding the point that's either no checkpoint reached or worse crystal moving the opposite direction now.

Not to mention Guard makes this a moot point as well (as it should). Even if they're taking damage a single opponent stopping the crystal from clearing the check point is a loss.

Running after "stragglers" into enemy spawn is a quick road to getting killed unless the team is literally afking or only 1v4'ing you. If the SMN spawns with LB all they have to do is delete you from range and/or assist one other team mate and now you've lost the gain on the crystal for a death.

The Goal should be to clear the checkpoint IMMEDIATELY and then everyone can go play war in the trenches.

If you fail to take the checkpoint, you're inviting an OT comeback for your opponents.

This as well. If you fail to make that initial push past the check point you're basically handing a possible win to the other team.
I've seen people face roll opponents and steam roll to victory but that's only because they didn't give my team a chance to take back that first checkpoint. It's literally everything in the opening minutes of the match.

[Gserpent]

The goal is not to kill the enemy team. It's to push the crystal. You can kill their team all day long but if one dude manages to push that crystal an inch further you're going to lose anyway.

Dead players get a stacking penalty to their respawn timer. They spend more time dead, less time fighting and generating LB. You will win more games by causing enemies to be literally incapable of contesting the point - because they are *dead* - than you will by ignoring them and "pushing the crystal."

In the future, please don't be a pedant. It doesn't make you sound smart, it makes you sound like someone picking at nits in lieu of coming up with actual rebuttal.

[SilverSkyway]

We're almost a month into this thing, and 95% of players still don't seem to understand that more bodies on a checkpoint will cap it faster.
People still run around in the open with all their abilities on CD slapping their basic combos until they die,
and dogfight in the expressways after winning a team fight while one player from the enemy team pushes the crystal to checkpoint.
Folks will blow their entire burst combos into Guard or Hallowed Ground, waste CC on targets that just broke root with Purify,
split DPS between 5 different targets, and refuse under any circumstances to peel for an ally.
It's common for teams to play FFA Deathmatch for 5 minutes only to suddenly panic and try to "get serious" when the clock goes into OT.
.

1. I didn't know about that. I knew more bodies don't move crystal faster.
2n3. No comment
4. I do this sometimes. My brain is mid thought (burst mode) so but time I relies guard is up, its to late.
5. Because 'serious mode' all the time takes energy. And I find it's easier to get salty if you're serious all the time.

Dead players get a stacking penalty to their respawn timer. They spend more time dead, less time fighting and generating LB. You will win more games by causing enemies to be literally incapable of contesting the point - because they are *dead* - than you will by ignoring them and "pushing the crystal."

In the future, please don't be a pedant. It doesn't make you sound smart, it makes you sound like someone picking at nits in lieu of coming up with actual rebuttal.

Killing helps sure but crystal the name of the game.

[Gserpent]

Backing up the idea that this is actually Crystal Conflict, not just KO the enemy. That checkpoint matters! People make the same misconception in the Frontline modes and that's why they lose. Two teams will get stuck fighting each other while the third picks up the big targets.

Killing other players is literally how you win Frontlines. It's also how you win Crystalline Conflict. Dead players cannot contest objectives.

[Mistress_Irika]

Killing other players is literally how you win Frontlines. It's also how you win Crystalline Conflict. Dead players cannot contest objectives.

Shhh.
Just let people stack on the objectives.
It's just going to be a free win if a hunter sees this and capitalizes on it.

[Avenger]

Backing up the idea that this is actually Crystal Conflict, not just KO the enemy. That checkpoint matters! People make the same misconception in the Frontline modes and that's why they lose. Two teams will get stuck fighting each other while the third picks up the big targets.

Ignoring objectives and fighting for third place. It is the Frontline way.

In FL I always assume there will be a group of players who are just going for the hand of mercy achievement and nothing else.

For CC I kind of like OP's idea of a tutorial mode like hall of the novice for pvp - I would also add a skirmish mode against NPCs for learning and practicing jobs without ruining games for actual human teammates.

I like how so many people are playing PvP now. I don't think it has ever been this popular in the history of FFXIV. I understand the pain of CC and FL at the moment though, and I have my own nostalgia for pre-6.1 Frontline and especially Hidden Gorge.

But nothing can be as one-sided as Frontline was before they changed to freelancers (days of Maelstrom vs. Immortal Flames on Primal DC.)

[Gserpent]

Ignoring objectives and fighting for third place. It is the Frontline way.

You and they are both wrong, though. Killing the enemy is the core element of all PvP modes.

Killing enemes in Frontline: gives the killer +10 Battle High, and all assists +2 Battle High; reduces enemy tactical points by 8 (except Seal Rock); increases your team's tactical points by 8 (except Seal Rock); and of course removes that enemy player from the field for a time. They will not contribute damage or healing or buffs and they will not generate limit break. They will also have to ride back to wherever the fights are.

Killing enemies in Rival Wings: contributes to stacking your Soaring and Flying High buff; denies that enemy the ability to damage or protect mechs or other objectives; prevents that player from gathering or spending CE on mechs; and as before removes them from the field, and requires them to ride back to the fights after they respawn.

Killing enemies in Crystalline Conflict: increases their death respawn timer by 1 second per death; and removes that player from the game for an extended period of time, during which they cannot participate in fights and do not generate Limit Break. Additionally, several classes' Limit Breaks end immediately on their death, including Scholar, Summoner, Bard (as well as Bard's mundane songs), Astrologian, and Sage, resulting in them being high priority targets if they have activated their Limit Break.

The fact that people do not generate Limit Break while dead, and they stay dead for longer each time they are killed, is an enormous element to winning Crystalline Conflict. Even just 12 seconds is an *eternity* when the maps are so small.

Denying enemy Limit Break gauge while you continue to build yours is literally going to win you tons of games. It's incredibly obvious if you have two of the same class in the game. If I pop Seraph around the same time as the enemy SCH, but we assassinate him while I kite and live, I will have Seraph again *long* before he will, which will give our team an enormous advantage in the next big fight.



Fixation on objectives over killing the enemy is the biggest noob trap in XIV's PvP systems. If you kill the enemy, you get the objectives for free. Because they can't contest them.