Do these devs even play their own game?

[Sarantserel]

It's the hyperbole that player's use, that causes doubt like this.

"They removed Kaiten, SAM is no more!!!!!"

It was an ability, to buff the next weapon skills potency by 50%.

I fail to see how the removal of it, suddenly means that SAM is FUBAR'd.

And I know, "But you don't play SAM, so you don't know anything." It doesn't take playing a class, to see how a skill that only effects one ability being removed, doesn't mean the sky is falling.

But to each, their own.

Later.

That's incredibly reductive.

Sure if you break it down to simply the effect, then you are correct, but Kaiten had more subtle implication. Since you needed Kenki to cast it, it meant you had to manage your kenki to make sure you had enough going into your burst phase to buff all your Iaijutsus. Now, you have Ikishoten to give you the Kenki for your 2 min Kenki spender, so the only real use for Kenki is Shinten. There's no longer any need to manage kenki cause it's only real use is now a single skill. They could remove Kenki and just give Shinten a stack system and it'd be the same as the current state of SAM.

Couple that to the feel of using the skill, which a lot of player enjoyed and I can definitely see why SAM mains are upset. The EW changes to kenki cost and the removal of Seigan already dumbed down Kenki management, but this latest changes completely gets rid of it, which means a lot of layers of complexity some SAM players used to enjoy have been removed.

[HolyReign]

That's incredibly reductive.

Sure if you break it down to simply the effect, then you are correct, but Kaiten had more subtle implication. Since you needed Kenki to cast it, it meant you had to manage your kenki to make sure you had enough going into your burst phase to buff all your Iaijutsus. Now, you have Ikishoten to give you the Kenki for your 2 min Kenki spender, so the only real use for Kenki is Shinten. There's no longer any need to manage kenki cause it's only real use is now a single skill. They could remove Kenki and just give Shinten a stack system and it'd be the same as the current state of SAM.

Couple that to the feel of using the skill, which a lot of player enjoyed and I can definitely see why SAM mains are upset. The EW changes to kenki cost and the removal of Seigan already dumbed down Kenki management, but this latest changes completely gets rid of it, which means a lot of layers of complexity some SAM players used to enjoy have been removed.

Sounds like removing the skill, made the job a bit less complex to play, which with people who equate "Difficulty." with "Work." seem it would please more people, than upset. SE has been doing this to a lot of this games content, making it easier, making it so newer players find it less stressful when playing a game, and more uplifting for those who want nothing more than to login and enjoy a laidback experienced opposed to managing points.

[Manofpassion]

Sounds like removing the skill, made the job a bit less complex to play, which with people who equate "Difficulty." with "Work." seem it would please more people, than upset. SE has been doing this to a lot of this games content, making it easier, making it so newer players find it less stressful when playing a game, and more uplifting for those who want nothing more than to login and enjoy a laidback experienced opposed to managing points.

Depends on the move really. Imagine if sage had kardia removed and it just autoapplied to the tank with the highest enmnity. Or if astro had their cards gutted even more, or if warrior lost fell cleave. For better or worse, the game developers have designed moves deemed iconic by the community, intentional or no. Gutting trick or removing kaiten just shows how out of touch the devs are in that they don't even know what moves the players like imo. But if some forgettable moves were removed, say idk, curing waltz or anatman, there will be a lot less uproar. If the designers didn't want players to get attached to a move, then quite frankly they shouldn't have added it in the first place. That is their error, not ours, and they are the ones we are paying to balance this stuff and let us have fun.

Furthermore, if they want to make the classes easier and more approachable, there are many things higher on the priority list. Machinist's and ninja's ping problems. Freecure and enhanced benefic being just actual traps for new players. Pneuma being a poorly designed hot despite it being a 600 potency heal for whatever reason. The list goes on. I don't have much sympathy for the devs faffing about and changing jobs that no one asked to be changed instead of actually fixing their game. We're asking them to do their job properly instead of wasting their own time and resources. The general manager of ffxiv needs to be fired imo, what a waste of their own budget, especially if you consider that ninja and Sam will probably have to be changed again in a later patch. They're pissing away their own money lmao

[Sequora]

Surely they don't play any healers or SMN or SAM or they wouldn't have destroyed all those jobs...

People were begging for changes to summoner for a very long time. I was one of them. I didn’t so much mind the gameplay as the inconsistency in the theme. Poison spells as our main source of damage as a summoner?

Thematically the job is great now. If they could add complexity and fix the clunkiness and reevaluate the caster role and rez tax, all would be good.

[rewd]

People were begging for changes to summoner for a very long time. I was one of them. I didn’t so much mind the gameplay as the inconsistency in the theme. Poison spells as our main source of damage as a summoner?

Enjoy the new SMN but don't spread nonsense about the old iteration. Roughly 70% of your damage came from Ruin spells and your pets. Bio, Miasma and Tri-Disaster only accounted for roughly 15% of your total damage output.

[QT_Melon]

Well as a main Bard the changes are a bit more insult to injury in this case because they actually broke them

What should have been a minor cosmetic issue regarding the change to Pitch Perfect and Wanderer's Minuet sharing the same button is now a game breaking feature in instances a Bard queueing for the 24 man/new group content really has no choice who will be joining if done without a pre-made group.

That bug now breeds toxicity amongst players further because now would they possibly compete for the weekly piece (which is a bit minor and been around since these raids) but hoping another bard isn't in the party because they have a high chance of messing up their rotation on one of the strongest songs 1/3 of our playstyle-rotation.

Then even if that wasn't just the issue - the new change which wasn't really one of the asked for features of sharing a button with Pitch Perfect and Wanderer's Minuet - also seems to have skill lag issues that mess up the rotation with Raging Stikes. A bug/behavior shared with DRG experiencing with their newly shared buttons - https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-weaving-often


You would think that the hotfix last night would be for it, but due to the fact it requires a client update. Players now have to wait till April 26th for their busted job to be "fixed" - that is if they actually fix BOTH behaviors with the change. But who knows since a lot of that is getting drowned out by the multitude of other threads on SAM - not that I don't think they don't deserve to say anything about their job change - just meaning that it's harder for other job voices to be noticed as much.

When MCH also needs quite a bit of love too.

[HolyReign]

Well, in this internet age, you can't really believe everything you read either.

I don't know, maybe it's my age, or the mindset that I have. Because over the past 30ish years of gaming, I've been able to separate myself from an issue and really look at it with a new perspective, to see is this really as bad as I think it is, or am I being a little bit overly dramatic due to the way it makes me feel, and not how it actually is. I like to believe in the developers and the company that produces a game, and try to understand their idea on changes they've made, and also understand that this is a game, and as a game is not real life and not to take it personally when a change is made that makes me feel uncomfortable/upset. And if, the change(s) they make, are truly a screw up, believe they will fix it.

So people just need to be patient, because stressing over a skill in a video game, in the grand scheme of things, isn't worth the head ache.

<3

[Sequora]

I wouldn't call this expansion a 'rushed job' as I thoroughly enjoyed the MSQ and the new dungeons imo knocked it out of the park with their presentation (My jaw dropped during Vanaspati).

But I agree that FFXIV is falling into familiar traps when it comes to dumbing down job design.

Black Mage vs. Red Mage to me is what this game should strive for.

Black Mage = Difficult to play well, but when mastered has INCREDIBLE damage potential.

Red Mage = Simple to play and master, Average-High damage potential but with INCREDIBLE Utility/Support potential.

The FFXIV Devs seem to be trying to dumb classes down to a Red Mage level, but with Black Mage's damage potential and it just doesn't feel rewarding.

I don’t personally agree with this. I very much dislike the way casters are balanced. It’s progression jobs vs speed run jobs. Rez is a security blanket. During a completely smooth run, it’s unneeded and therefore really only serves progression.

The other roles don’t have this discrepancy in job balance. SAM deals the highest personal damage because they don’t have damage boosting utility. The other jobs should by comparison deal the same amount of damage when you add in the amount of damage they’re adding to the other party members.

Job complexity shouldn’t dictate performance.

[Sequora]

Enjoy the new SMN but don't spread nonsense about the old iteration. Roughly 70% of your damage came from Ruin spells and your pets. Bio, Miasma and Tri-Disaster only accounted for roughly 15% of your total damage output.

Ok, regardless, 2.0 summoner was a poison DoT mage with the summons feeling tacked on.

Each expansion after started leaning more heavily on the summoning aspect, but they kept adding more and more clunk with the different systems not really being connected. The summoning always felt like a secondary part of the job. There aren’t many jobs in the final fantasy series as iconic outside of jobs like white mage, black mage, paladin and dragoon.

That being said, the expansion stripped away most of the original class/job, while not adding enough to make it a unique job.

[rewd]

Ok, regardless, 2.0 summoner was a poison DoT mage with the summons feeling tacked on.

Each expansion after started leaning more heavily on the summoning aspect, but they kept adding more and more clunk with the different systems not really being connected. The summoning always felt like a secondary part of the job. There aren’t many jobs in the final fantasy series as iconic outside of jobs like white mage, black mage, paladin and dragoon.

That being said, the expansion stripped away most of the original class/job, while not adding enough to make it a unique job.

Ok, and the SMN that was reworked to become 6.0 SMN was the 5.X one. What an iteration of almost a decade ago has to do with anything, I don't know.

This job doesn't need more disinformation.