The promised crafting system of "HQ mats = HQ result"

[Cthulhu]

You are arguing from the standpoint that you prefer the current system over the one that was outlined.

Just to be clear, I am arguing the current system IS the one outlined. I don't think I've mentioned my personal preferences on this matter.

I am specifically asking for an explanation as to why one thing was promised and a different thing was delivered.

What exactly do you think you were *promised* in a translated post from Yoshida? I don't speak japanese, do you? Is it the word guaranteed that you are so hung up on?

This is a game. Right now you can play the game well enough that 88% of the time if you start out with HQ mats you get an HQ item. Learn to play the game a little better and you'll be able to finish at 90% initial chance, giving you a total probability of a 94.5% chance at a HQ item. Learn to play the game a little better and get this, you will get an HQ item 100% of the time.

Actually, I just want an explanation for why they didn't do what they said they would. To date, they have not even offered one.

First there was Yoshida's translated forum post that you linked. Those ideas were explained more in detail with this post. Implemented in this patch. Refined some in this patch. It looks to me like they did what they said they were going to do.

[Spider-Dan]

How could my post be incorrect?... Its from personal experience. Are you telling me that I've never gotten nearly 500 quality (using only NQ mats and 492 to exact) on a recipe 4 levels over my current level?

Adding 492 quality will never guarantee a HQ. QED.

[Spider-Dan]

Just to be clear, I am arguing the current system IS the one outlined.

The current system does not guarantee HQ results from HQ mats, so that is impossible.

What exactly do you think you were *promised* in a translated post from Yoshida? I don't speak japanese, do you?

Is is really your position that the official translation from an SE employee is faulty? If not, why even bring it up?

Is it the word guaranteed that you are so hung up on?

Why, yes, it is. Guaranteed means that it cannot fail to produce the stated result.

This is a game. Right now you can play the game well enough that 88% of the time if you start out with HQ mats you get an HQ item. Learn to play the game a little better and you'll be able to finish at 90% initial chance, giving you a total probability of a 94.5% chance at a HQ item.

Notice that none of these probabilities are "100%", which is what the word guaranteed means.

First there was Yoshida's translated forum post that you linked. Those ideas were explained more in detail with this post. Implemented in this patch. Refined some in this patch. It looks to me like they did what they said they were going to do.

No, they simply did something different than they originally said.

To my knowledge, at no point did Yoshida ever actually explain why HQ mats will no longer result in a guaranteed HQ synth. I am happy to consider any evidence showing otherwise.

[Cthulhu]

Here are the only two sentences you din't quote from may last post.

I don't think I've mentioned my personal preferences on this matter.

Learn to play the game a little better and get this, you will get an HQ item 100% of the time.

[Jamison]

This paragraph can be applied equally to the entirety of planned 2.0 content. When your plan for resurrecting the game leans almost entirely on "here is all the cool stuff we are going to do," backtracking on your planned changes (and extremely significant ones, at that) without so much as an explanation is kind of a big deal.

This is hardly a significant backtracking that calls in to question the entirety of their 2.0 plans. Drama much?

Notwithstanding the fact that you have yet to support the claim that HQs are equal/easier to produce than before, it's irrelevant. Fundamentally, the best you can argue is that that is yet another unexplained change to the roadmap that was laid out.

Support? Uh, I play the game. Empirically, gathering HQ items has remained *exactly* the same, capped at 10%. And while I don't have statistical proof on crafting HQ ingredients, I personally find it a LOT easier to HQ them when I do. And for the third fracking time, I never said they were easier! I said they didn't make them "very difficult" to obtain, which would have been the major challenge under the proposed system. Seriously, read and understand before you go off...

I never said what system I personally wanted. In fact, I have specifically NOT said anything of the sort.

Fair enough, I should have said "what it seems you want".

I asked if the system that was detailed by Yoshida is still in line to be implemented, and if not, for an explanation as to why said system was scrapped.

Because it was in development, a glimpse in the direction they were headed. It was never law handed down from God that could never be questioned. They decided the revisions that ultimately got implemented in the game were better for the game. I can think of several legitimate reasons that could be true. But here's the thing, it doesn't matter. It's a good system. You've no basis for demanding this personal explanation on a system that was never promised to be in the game in its exact form.

[Green_and_a_Half]

This statement is factually false. Using HQ materials does not guarantee HQ result.


I have already stated multiple times that I am using abilities from 50CRP, 50WVR, and 36ALC; specifically, my current loadout is Byregot's, Culmination, Perfection, Grand Design, and Comfort Zone. I suppose that we could debate crafting strategy, but given that the promised mechanic was that HQ mats = HQ result, discussing strategy is missing the point.


Actually, you're failing to consider that he presented the "80% works 9/10th of the time" as a separate consideration from the possibility of blowing up your synth with Double Down. To wit:

"9/10 times when you have 80% you'll HQ so if you don't HQ try again, if you have 40% I say it's still worth doing if your true goal is just to go for HQ."

The "try again" part (i.e. 40% on Double Down) is separate from the "9/10 times 80% will HQ" part.

Furthermore, 88% (note: still not 9/10, but whatever) success rate with a 12% rate of critical failure while using entirely HQ materials is not exactly a counterpoint.

To reiterate: in the scenario provided, in order to reach an 88% chance of HQ rate, you would have a 12% chance of complete materials loss while using entirely HQ materials! I don't know about you, but I would say that losing all of my materials is about as far from guaranteed success as you can get.


If the system implemented was the system promised, this would not happen, which is my point.

true, not 100% guaranteed to hq with hq mats as promised. Now, just get to 1000 quality.
You saw my guide on hq'ing?
Guide How-To_HQ_all_the_things

[VytasBismarck]

IMHO its too easy to HQ already. For ppl like OP here who want to get the best things in game with 0 effort i'd like to clear it up by saying that HQ stands for "high quality" and that means that its better and harder to get than regular stuff, and that means that it shouldn't be 100% guaranteed starting with 1000 quality and Hasty Handing it... It's just wrong...
You have to work hard for the best things in life and if your lazy a$$ thinks otherwise then maybe you should go play something else... This is MMO where ppl come to experience a sense of achievement, sadly because of ppl like you who keep complaining there's not much left to achieve...

[Spider-Dan]

Here are the only two sentences you din't quote from may last post.

I don't think I've mentioned my personal preferences on this matter.

I didn't respond to this because there is nothing to respond to. You are clearly making arguments for strategy within the current system, which has nothing to do with my point. I'm perfectly confident that I can maximize my HQ rate in this system, but as I have expressed no preference or dislike for the current system, it's not relevant to the topic.

Learn to play the game a little better and get this, you will get an HQ item 100% of the time.

I didn't respond to this because it is an out-and-out lie. There is no combination of skills, no strategy, no tactic that will result in 100% HQ every time under the current system. This is a falsehood, plain and simple. I didn't really think that merited further discussion.

[Green_and_a_Half]

what item cant you get 1000 quality on sir.
maybe we should start with that. i can 1000 quality everything in the game except dark steel.
its a lvl59 synth and i wouldn't expect to.
So what is it you need
you can use

and

with some of

So I would say get Masters meld for 3-4 more Careful
and stop thinking because you have 2 crafting jobs at 50, you know everything about crafting.

I AGREE THAT SE CHANGED IT. Good job making a thread about it. Most of us agree that would have sucked for main crafters and are happy its not that easy for you.
Do you NOW want help getting 100% HQ or are you sticking to "There is no combination of skills, no strategy, no tactic that will result in 100% HQ every time under the current system. "???

[Spider-Dan]

what item cant you get 1000 quality on sir.
maybe we should start with that. i can 1000 quality everything in the game except dark steel.

Are you saying that you reach 1000 quality every time? Or perhaps you are saying that you have literally never failed to HQ an item that started with HQ mats? Because that's what we are discussing.

If you can sometimes reach 1000 quality (on things that matter), that's great. If you are the luckiest person in the world and always get an HQ even when you only get up to 80%, even better! Enjoy your good fortune. It still has nothing to do with the topic.

I did not create this thread because I need strategy advice; I am perfectly content with my loadout and my net HQ rate is quite reasonable. But Yoshida didn't say that using entirely HQ mats (along with having multiple crafts capped) will give you a "quite reasonable" chance at HQ; he said it would "guarantee" HQ. That is why this thread exists.