Removal of Piety and Tenacity for Endwalker

[Timmyftw]

I believe it's clear that no one uses piety or tenacity materia.
I am not even quite sure why those stats are in the game at this point.
All the tanks and healers I know avoid it like the plague when it's on gear.
Myself included as a healer main, I actively look for gear without piety.

[Jeeqbit]

Think of piety and tenacity like an AoE. You have to avoid them. If you didn't have stats to avoid it would be like not having any AoE to avoid.

Tenacity does get used by some people who progress savage or ultimate I've heard. It's not that the mitigation isn't nice, it's just that the mitigation usually isn't worth the damage loss because you have so many ways to mitigate already. In fact, if you go back and do old content minimum item level, you have more mitigation on shorter cooldowns than you did originally.

I've heard that some people stack piety because it gives them more MP to do damage with, but I haven't felt it to be necessary myself, especially with Energy Drain having been returned. If you do alliance raids a lot you might find it of use so that you can raise constantly.

[Anhra]

I believe it's clear that no one uses piety or tenacity materia.
I am not even quite sure why those stats are in the game at this point.
All the tanks and healers I know avoid it like the plague when it's on gear.
Myself included as a healer main, I actively look for gear without piety.

This Games simplicity about stats in PvE content has long ago reached a point, where it doesn't even matter what kind of materia we slot in. I mean, i am aware of simple math and that crit/determination is the way to go, but if you look beyond the mere numbers and actually pay close attention how Content is being cleared, you'll see that the damage department is way too high overall from any Job.

What i am telling here is, Content in general is being cleared way too quickly, and materia plays not the biggest role, but a significant part on this .

As for the piety stat, it does have one good thing about it, and that is when you plan on saving a almost completely wiped party all by yourself. It also comes in handy if you run Trials with only one Healer.

[Colt47]

This Games simplicity about stats in PvE content has long ago reached a point, where it doesn't even matter what kind of materia we slot in. I mean, i am aware of simple math and that crit/determination is the way to go, but if you look beyond the mere numbers and actually pay close attention how Content is being cleared, you'll see that the damage department is way too high overall from any Job.

What i am telling here is, Content in general is being cleared way too quickly, and materia plays not the biggest role, but a significant part on this .

As for the piety stat, it does have one good thing about it, and that is when you plan on saving a almost completely wiped party all by yourself. It also comes in handy if you run Trials with only one Healer.

Are you talking from a Savage point of view or just the normal content? The reality is that materia is 100% pointless in any normal content and that is by design. The normal content is supposed to be the lowest common denominator in terms of difficulty. I don't see anyone clearing savage without materia, food, and tinctures. Those three things are the gil sink of end game battle content. If Tenacity were to become useful, they'd have to make it so that tanks can't benefit from direct hit.

[Khalithar]

If Tenacity were to become useful, they'd have to make it so that tanks can't benefit from direct hit.

...and then if Determination gave more DPS than Tenacity we'd end up melding that or crit instead.

What I think is the issue with Tenacity would be that for it to be good, and due to the dps focused meta of savage, they'd have to buff it to the point where it surpasses all other DPS stats to the point of it being overpowered. If they stop us from being able to meld DH (since it doesn't occur natively on tank gear) then we'd just do crit and det anyway. =/

Edit:

Also after thinking about it a little more, I honestly don't think anything of value would be lost if the Materia system itself was scrapped. Clearing all of savage this expac and last expac I usually ended up melding all the same stats anyway. It's worth a few extra ilevels of secondaries and definitely helps boost you a little bit but with the stat squish that's coming up? I feel like the effect will probably be fairly negligible in comparison to the stats we have now.

[Deceptus]

...and then if Determination gave more DPS than Tenacity we'd end up melding that or crit instead.

All they need to do is buff Tenacity by about 1.5-2% damage to equal Determination's damage increase.

Then tenacity would equal determination damage wise while adding extra ~5% mitigation.

Mitigation, that thing tanks are supposed to be all about remember?

[VelKallor]

I believe it's clear that no one uses piety or tenacity materia.

And youd be wrong.

[Theodric]

A handful of players use both but they're rarely considered to be a priority stat judging by how little materia with those stats happens to sell for. Rather than remove them, I'd like to see more relevance for the stats in question.

[Deceptus]

Or. . . we could simplify stats so every job has a max of 3 substats to focus on? 2 primary ones and a 3rd "dump stat". My reasoning is pretty simple: Everyone hates getting that piece that has an "unwanted stat". A slight modification of the substats would make each substat more valuable if it was condensed from 5 to 3.

Tanks get: Crit, Skill speed, Tenacity (increases healing to them).
DPS get: Crit, Skill speed / Spell Speed / Direct Hit
Healers: Crit, Spell Speed, Piety (increases mp regen and healing done)

Lets be honest here, like OP said, there are certain "unwanted stat" that are ignored.

Tanks ignore Tenacity, healers largely ignore Piety and dps ignore Determination. This is despite the tooltips clearly showing that the developers want tanks to use Tenacity and healers to use Piety.

So much so that Tenacity and Piety are tank and healer only stats.

[Dzian]

Or. . . we could simplify stats so every job has a max of 3 substats to focus on? 2 primary ones and a 3rd "dump stat". My reasoning is pretty simple: Everyone hates getting that piece that has an "unwanted stat". A slight modification of the substats would make each substat more valuable if it was condensed from 5 to 3.

Tanks get: Crit, Skill speed, Tenacity (increases healing to them).
DPS get: Crit, Skill speed / Spell Speed / Direct Hit
Healers: Crit, Spell Speed, Piety (increases mp regen and healing done)

Lets be honest here, like OP said, there are certain "unwanted stat" that are ignored.

Tanks ignore Tenacity, healers largely ignore Piety and dps ignore Determination. This is despite the tooltips clearly showing that the developers want tanks to use Tenacity and healers to use Piety.

So much so that Tenacity and Piety are tank and healer only stats.

To be honest I'd take tenacity over skill speed. the combat system is already enough button mashing so anything that speeds it up even more is avoided. even if it is minimal.