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  1. #1
    Player
    Timmyftw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    33
    Character
    Ta'li Trinity
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90

    Removal of Piety and Tenacity for Endwalker

    I believe it's clear that no one uses piety or tenacity materia.
    I am not even quite sure why those stats are in the game at this point.
    All the tanks and healers I know avoid it like the plague when it's on gear.
    Myself included as a healer main, I actively look for gear without piety.
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player
    Jeeqbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    7,675
    Character
    Oscarlet Oirellain
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Think of piety and tenacity like an AoE. You have to avoid them. If you didn't have stats to avoid it would be like not having any AoE to avoid.

    Tenacity does get used by some people who progress savage or ultimate I've heard. It's not that the mitigation isn't nice, it's just that the mitigation usually isn't worth the damage loss because you have so many ways to mitigate already. In fact, if you go back and do old content minimum item level, you have more mitigation on shorter cooldowns than you did originally.

    I've heard that some people stack piety because it gives them more MP to do damage with, but I haven't felt it to be necessary myself, especially with Energy Drain having been returned. If you do alliance raids a lot you might find it of use so that you can raise constantly.
    (5)

  3. #3
    Player Anhra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    824
    Character
    Anhra Nefaris
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Timmyftw View Post
    I believe it's clear that no one uses piety or tenacity materia.
    I am not even quite sure why those stats are in the game at this point.
    All the tanks and healers I know avoid it like the plague when it's on gear.
    Myself included as a healer main, I actively look for gear without piety.
    This Games simplicity about stats in PvE content has long ago reached a point, where it doesn't even matter what kind of materia we slot in. I mean, i am aware of simple math and that crit/determination is the way to go, but if you look beyond the mere numbers and actually pay close attention how Content is being cleared, you'll see that the damage department is way too high overall from any Job.

    What i am telling here is, Content in general is being cleared way too quickly, and materia plays not the biggest role, but a significant part on this .

    As for the piety stat, it does have one good thing about it, and that is when you plan on saving a almost completely wiped party all by yourself. It also comes in handy if you run Trials with only one Healer.
    (8)

  4. #4
    Player
    Colt47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Uldah
    Posts
    1,809
    Character
    Kan Himaa
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Anhra View Post
    This Games simplicity about stats in PvE content has long ago reached a point, where it doesn't even matter what kind of materia we slot in. I mean, i am aware of simple math and that crit/determination is the way to go, but if you look beyond the mere numbers and actually pay close attention how Content is being cleared, you'll see that the damage department is way too high overall from any Job.

    What i am telling here is, Content in general is being cleared way too quickly, and materia plays not the biggest role, but a significant part on this .

    As for the piety stat, it does have one good thing about it, and that is when you plan on saving a almost completely wiped party all by yourself. It also comes in handy if you run Trials with only one Healer.
    Are you talking from a Savage point of view or just the normal content? The reality is that materia is 100% pointless in any normal content and that is by design. The normal content is supposed to be the lowest common denominator in terms of difficulty. I don't see anyone clearing savage without materia, food, and tinctures. Those three things are the gil sink of end game battle content. If Tenacity were to become useful, they'd have to make it so that tanks can't benefit from direct hit.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    Khalithar's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,555
    Character
    Khalith Mateo
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Colt47 View Post
    If Tenacity were to become useful, they'd have to make it so that tanks can't benefit from direct hit.
    ...and then if Determination gave more DPS than Tenacity we'd end up melding that or crit instead.

    What I think is the issue with Tenacity would be that for it to be good, and due to the dps focused meta of savage, they'd have to buff it to the point where it surpasses all other DPS stats to the point of it being overpowered. If they stop us from being able to meld DH (since it doesn't occur natively on tank gear) then we'd just do crit and det anyway. =/

    Edit:

    Also after thinking about it a little more, I honestly don't think anything of value would be lost if the Materia system itself was scrapped. Clearing all of savage this expac and last expac I usually ended up melding all the same stats anyway. It's worth a few extra ilevels of secondaries and definitely helps boost you a little bit but with the stat squish that's coming up? I feel like the effect will probably be fairly negligible in comparison to the stats we have now.
    (0)
    Last edited by Khalithar; 04-19-2021 at 05:26 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Khalithar View Post
    ...and then if Determination gave more DPS than Tenacity we'd end up melding that or crit instead.
    All they need to do is buff Tenacity by about 1.5-2% damage to equal Determination's damage increase.

    Then tenacity would equal determination damage wise while adding extra ~5% mitigation.

    Mitigation, that thing tanks are supposed to be all about remember?
    (2)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  7. #7
    Player
    VelKallor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,590
    Character
    Vel Kallor
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    I believe it's clear that no one uses piety or tenacity materia.
    And youd be wrong.
    (45)

  8. #8
    Player Theodric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    10,051
    Character
    Matthieu Desrosiers
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 90
    A handful of players use both but they're rarely considered to be a priority stat judging by how little materia with those stats happens to sell for. Rather than remove them, I'd like to see more relevance for the stats in question.
    (15)

  9. #9
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Or. . . we could simplify stats so every job has a max of 3 substats to focus on? 2 primary ones and a 3rd "dump stat". My reasoning is pretty simple: Everyone hates getting that piece that has an "unwanted stat". A slight modification of the substats would make each substat more valuable if it was condensed from 5 to 3.

    Tanks get: Crit, Skill speed, Tenacity (increases healing to them).
    DPS get: Crit, Skill speed / Spell Speed / Direct Hit
    Healers: Crit, Spell Speed, Piety (increases mp regen and healing done)

    Lets be honest here, like OP said, there are certain "unwanted stat" that are ignored.

    Tanks ignore Tenacity, healers largely ignore Piety and dps ignore Determination. This is despite the tooltips clearly showing that the developers want tanks to use Tenacity and healers to use Piety.

    So much so that Tenacity and Piety are tank and healer only stats.
    (4)

  10. #10
    Player
    Dzian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,837
    Character
    Scarlett Dzian
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 76
    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptus View Post
    Or. . . we could simplify stats so every job has a max of 3 substats to focus on? 2 primary ones and a 3rd "dump stat". My reasoning is pretty simple: Everyone hates getting that piece that has an "unwanted stat". A slight modification of the substats would make each substat more valuable if it was condensed from 5 to 3.

    Tanks get: Crit, Skill speed, Tenacity (increases healing to them).
    DPS get: Crit, Skill speed / Spell Speed / Direct Hit
    Healers: Crit, Spell Speed, Piety (increases mp regen and healing done)

    Lets be honest here, like OP said, there are certain "unwanted stat" that are ignored.

    Tanks ignore Tenacity, healers largely ignore Piety and dps ignore Determination. This is despite the tooltips clearly showing that the developers want tanks to use Tenacity and healers to use Piety.

    So much so that Tenacity and Piety are tank and healer only stats.
    To be honest I'd take tenacity over skill speed. the combat system is already enough button mashing so anything that speeds it up even more is avoided. even if it is minimal.
    (2)

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