New Gear... for class only? [Glaring Issue] [Request]

[Vanguard319]

I'm just going to quote myself here as well:



And the fact that as a LNC, PGL, MRD or THM you have access to stoneskin...why would you even think about not having that when you go solo? It's basically like an extension to your HP bar - you get zero damage for a specified amount. Why waste having to build up to self-heal or cure when you can just bypass that easily? That's already one huge plus to have classes instead of jobs as solo.

Classes are also meant to be more MALLEABLE. Yes, you can solo seven lvl 50-52 mobs easily as a DRG rather than as a LNC, but it isn't impossible. If I can do that in Zahar'ak on my LNC, I believe that counts. But once you use up dread spike....once you use up Second Wind....and more mobs come along and agro....what then? You're a sitting duck until your timers flash back again, by which time the higher survivability of the LNC will prove it's boon towards then just being a DRG.

I'll only deal with the four classes/jobs I major in. I already expressed my LNC/DRG above.

ARC and BRD damage the same? Dear me, Invigorate and Blood for Blood increase the ARC's damage tremendously over the BRD. Since you love to use self-heal as an example to counter against classes, I'll use this as a case where ARC's can self-heal better than BRD with second wind and bloodbath. ARC's can have a higher chance of evading attacks on Featherfoot. Survivability of an ARC versus a BRD in solo situations? Winner goes to ARC.

A CNJ's damage output is much better than a WHM's. In solo situations, while your stone and aero combos are on cooldown, rock out with a Thunder. Need to attack, but want HP as well? Necrogenesis your Aerora. About to be hit by a large attack and want more MP to nuke/heal more? Rock out with a Sanguine Rite. In small parties, you want to damage more, but don't want enmity? Quelling Strike and Chameleon afterwards. Winner in terms of damage and adaptability? CNJ.

And THM and BLM....I don't even need to go into this. Just look at Ifrit parties - why are THM's always requested over BLMs? The sacred prism effect for both stoneskin and sanguine rite, the ability to help with curing and raising the dead....you can't just take damage into account. For solo-ing, BLM's will definitely go down faster against high-damaging opponents.

The only way that you will always have a Job outperform a Class is if you play your class as if you will play your job. They're two different ENTITIES - jobs are a SPECIALISATION of a possible role that the class was shaped around. As a job, you PLAY that role. As a class, you play a MIX of roles. Why limit yourself to just one role when you can adapt to so many others as a class?

This, I've been playing around with the mailbreaker and some of the new gc gear, and found that one can turn a gld into a fairly decent dd. Due to the way grind parties typically fight multiple mobs at once, most people tend to prefer war over pld, so when the level cap is raised, a gld may have to resort to such a setup in order to gain levels. This would be a good example of why you would use a class in parties.

[Vaymathias]

If they do want it to be "class is better for solo and job is better for party", then they need to retool the classes even further, and not be afraid to have all the base classes step on each others toes.

The classes would have to each be able to fulfill multiples roles. Gladiator would have to lose some defensive abilities and traits and gain some offensive abilities and traits, which would be lost and replaced (the new offensive traits and abilities) upon switching to PLD for defensive/support/party support abilities.

A change like that for all the classes and jobs is how that would work. The classes as they stand now, for the MOST part, are just watered down classes. Adding class specific gear, doesn't change that.

[raelee]

I don't understand how anyone responding to this thread would EVER choose a class over a job.

Classes are also meant to be more MALLEABLE. Yes, you can solo seven lvl 50-52 mobs easily as a DRG rather than as a LNC, but it isn't impossible.

Why would you go through the trouble when it's easier on DRG?

While, yes, you have access to more abilities, it's just a hassle.

Archer: While, yes, you do have invigorate, as a bard you also have Paeon. So, there's not real argument there. As a bard, you also have Cure, Stoneskin, Sanguine Right if need be, and raise. You also have Rain of Death as Bard, which is a beast weaponskill. The ONLY stipulation is that it takes 3000 TP. That is the ONLY argument you actually have.

Lancer? Why, god why, would you ever need access to Stoneskin? Dragoon completely destroys everything, plus, as Kira mentioned earlier, you can cure yourself with Dread Spike, plus you have access to Second Wind, which does not really have THAT long of a cooldown. Even at soloing, by the time you'd need it again, it would already be up.

Pug? No, just no.

Thaum: You loose quite a few things going from BLM to Thaum. Freeze, for one. If you're in a small party there is probably going to be a time that you'll want to reduce your hate. Flare. Great AoE.

Conj vs. WHM? Holy! Duh! No, but seriously, if you're in a small party and want to nuke much, just use Shroud of Saints. Reduces enmity. 'Nuff said. Plus, Prescence of Mind if in need for quick spells such as Stoneskin, or of course, Raise. Hell, even Holy.

MRD: They don't get collusion. Who the hell DOESN'T want collusion? o_o

Wait, a LNC aiding people and tanking? I just loled. LNC/DRG is strictly a DD.

Yeah dude, this isn't Tera....

[Inaaca]

Jobs are still very new, and SE is still working on defining the balance between Jobs and Classes. One of the things they said they'd do to help define them is start releasing Class and Job specific gear that were different in their focus. This is the first wave of Class specific gear.

Honestly, though, I don't see the need for all this fuss. If Jobs can have specific gear, I see no reason why Classes can't. SE is clearly determined to keep this system, so we might as well embrace it and see where they take it in the future.

[whoopeeragon]

Wait, a LNC aiding people and tanking? I just loled. LNC/DRG is strictly a DD. If you are curing or doing anything else, your party frankly sucks? Attune a LNC to magic? I literally lol'ed. I have nothing to say about these absurd things. Stoneskin on a solo person is ok, but when I don't need it and can burn the mob down faster what is the point of it? If you really need to heal yourself as a solo player on DRG, use livesurge instead of powersurge... I find everything you said about LNC to be moot. And if I'm not main tanking, I run through as DRG and wreak havoc on a consistent basis.

Yea, ok, lets have your actual WHM/CNJ die, and no one else can raise. Oh, but wait, I'm LNC, so I have raise, but I HAVE to damage, even though monster can't die anytime soon and the rest of my party is getting massacred. I'm the only with Raise, but I JUST HAVE to damage! I can sacred prism and stoneskin my party so they don't get as hurt, then raise the healer, but NO, I WANT TO DAMAGE. Oh look, the tank died, and the rest of my parties are mages, BUT I HAVE TO DAMAGE, so I can't tank! Oh look, the THM/BLM is tanking. BUT WHO CARES, I NEED TO DAMAGE.

As for lolling....I don't think you noticed I was taking it as if envisioning the game as real world. Of COURSE the LNC in the GAME will be different from what it would be in RL. But in doing so, it isn't that hard to see that the requirements of 'training' to be a LNC is much different to training to become a DRG. Thinking outside the square.....do you guys do that often, or do you stick to one and stay with it all the way?

My god, I thought that classes had a point in that you could ADAPT to situations as such! WHY can't people be more OPEN to options about how to use your class? MUST you PIGEONHOLE yourself into a role as a class when the job DOES that for you? USE your brain and skills to suit YOUR needs, not what the JOB demands of you. You're on a CLASS, not a JOB.

Paeon of War can't be used immediately at the start of the battle. Yes, it may last longer, but the initial burst of TP from invigorate helps out faster, instead of standing there peppering arrows at the enemies, using paeon of war, peppering enemies again...You mentioned burning down enemies faster as a DRG rather than a LNC. Well, wouldn't an ARC burn down enemies faster than a BRD? And accuracy? Hawk's eye? Are we forgetting the normal abilities that ARC had already, and using BRD ones to justify?

Who wants a CNJ to damage? Fine. Solo. And don't damage. Tell me how you do. Or your party's falling dead around you, and enemy has only a little bit of HP remaining that you can easily nuke away. Oh no, I'll just raise, and protect, and regen, and stoneskin and...oh wait, I'm dead, enemy is almost dead, everyone else is dead. Yay, we're all happy, because I was just trying to heal you guys? What, I could have used an aero then a holy and killed him? No, I had to heal you guys because that's my job! As usual, you go PIGEON-LOCKING yourself in as a class when the class is meant for you to be VERSATILE in what you do.

Thaum: You loose quite a few things going from BLM to Thaum. Freeze, for one. If you're in a small party there is probably going to be a time that you'll want to reduce your hate. Flare. Great AoE.

There's one problem here though - you are severely neglecting the potential of cross-classing abilities. Losing hate? What about archer abilities? You have massive hate on you? Pop Chameleon, instant downer. Freeze has a, what, 5 second cast timer? Can be interrupted? If you really wanted enmity gone, you would use those other abilities. Flare. Long cast time. Must be around you to hit. Fire combo. Faster cast time. You can be a RANGED attacker as well.

Conj vs. WHM? Holy! Duh! No, but seriously, if you're in a small party and want to nuke much, just use Shroud of Saints. Reduces enmity. 'Nuff said. Plus, Prescence of Mind if in need for quick spells such as Stoneskin, or of course, Raise. Hell, even Holy.

Shroud of Saints - last 20 seconds. Recast timer, 3 minutes. Less with CNJ ability. And TEMPORARY reduction. Holy - all MP gone. Oh, lovely....now I can't do anything else. And Holy is not a normal NUKING magic - it's situational...

You know what? At the end of the day, we can all go pick situations that fit our arguments. So why don't we take that as a sign and say that they can both co-exist? Neither one takes away from the other. Each one can exist indepedently. You take your situations and try to make the classes sound worthless. I take my situations and try to glorify my classes to make them sound priceless. What's the point, really....as Inaaca says if Jobs can be specific in gear, why can't classes, when they're equally at the right to obtain as such.

[raelee]

There's one problem here though - you are severely neglecting the potential of cross-classing abilities. Losing hate? What about archer abilities? You have massive hate on you? Pop Chameleon, instant downer. Freeze has a, what, 5 second cast timer? Can be interrupted? If you really wanted enmity gone, you would use those other abilities. Flare. Long cast time. Must be around you to hit. Fire combo. Faster cast time. You can be a RANGED attacker as well.

Shroud of Saints - last 20 seconds. Recast timer, 3 minutes. Less with CNJ ability. And TEMPORARY reduction. Holy - all MP gone. Oh, lovely....now I can't do anything else. And Holy is not a normal NUKING magic - it's situational...

First, I see you've forgotten that BLM takes it's abilities from Archer. Therefore, it's got Chamerleon. Also, just because spells have a long cast timer doesn't mean they aren't really useful. Infact, Flare is essential to our LS AV runs. Also, more than likely if you are casting Freeze, your standing still anyway. I mean, mages need to stand still in order to regain MP anyway. Obviously, they need to stand still to cast to. Any spell can be interrupted if they move.

Okay, lol, first, I think someone has forgotten what sarcasm means. Obviously, I was not being serious when I said Holy. But in that instance, it does not take a long time for a WHM to regain MP, especially with a Bard in the party(which is another resaon why anyone would take a Bard over and Archer), and Blissful Mind. And yes, Shroud of Saints only lasts for a certain amount of time. But honestly, I've nuked on WHM. Never really had a hate problem in small parties.

[Konsentrate]

I can only really speak for Disciples of Magic (and Bard/Archer a little):

I find THM to be very useful, and different to play than BLM. Still, even with access to cure, stoneskin, raise, sentinel, etc. I think BLM is far better. Slightly better non-melded gear to add materia to should make it more likely that I choose to not top DPS, and instead support my party with THM.

I don't find CNJ very useful at all, though they do have damage mitigation, hate managment, resonance and AoE SR that they get that WHM doesnt. It's still not usuable over WHM for most purposes, maybe that gear will allow a CNJ to be support damage with the right materia in it.

I've been stoked about this gear for a while now, to be honest.

[TheVedis]

Making class only gear available to jobs would defeat the purpose of it being class only

nuf said

[Ruisu]

Not sure if there was a post about the new gear/weapons. But why on earth are they Class related only?

The way I justified it (and this took a lot of effort to justify) was that SE wants players who have classes ranked up. but not jobs, to have gear. This would typically be intended for newer players I assume. Though I could see players using THM instead of BLM, I have a hard time visioning players choosing GLD/MRD/LNC/ARC over their respective jobs.

The fact of the matter is, though, that if SE intended for the new gear to be used by new players there is a glaring hole in this justification: the gear will be much too expensive for new players to buy. Coke costing 100k, and the rarity of the materials forces crafters to charge several million to break even for their efforts. How do new players compensate for this?

I frankly find the new gear to be very useful. The stats are pretty solid, and being meldable helps their case more. But the fact that they are class only renders them almost useless. I would like to know if people agree, and if so, will SE consider changing it so Jobs can utilize the new gear.

Have you seen the gryphonskin gear? ARC is a completely viable DD now if you doublemeld that stuff. Especially for those people disappointed about ARC becoming a BRD.

GLA can regenerate MP, while not pulling as much hate as, say PLD (pffffffft.), which would be it's benefit.

I don't want that gear to be used for Jobs, especially those hideous cinderblocks being for Monk.

[Matsume]

Have you seen the gryphonskin gear? ARC is a completely viable DD now if you doublemeld that stuff. Especially for those people disappointed about ARC becoming a BRD.

GLA can regenerate MP, while not pulling as much hate as, say PLD (pffffffft.), which would be it's benefit.

I don't want that gear to be used for Jobs, especially those hideous cinderblocks being for Monk.

HEY! Those cinder blocks are NOT hideous! The correct term is: EXPANDABLE MOLTEN DARKSTEEL. U LRN.