1.22 - 1.22a - 1.22b changes

[waldo]

Ace, your answer to the fix being VIT and block is part of the problem, I think. Warrior primary stats are STR & VIT. Two things a tanks that holds hate with dps based skills absolutely need. Paladin gets STR and MND. A meat shield should have stats of DEX as it increases shield skills (as noted by in game tool tips) and VIT, to increase HP and damage mitigation. In effect, warrior is 2/2 with their primary stat, and paladin is 0/2. I understand MND increase enimity with ONE combo (flat) and maybe let's you do 5 damage to the boss you're fight instead of 4, but that just isnt enough.

MND does not increase amount healed on paladin (proven), it also does not effect enmity on phalnex/spirits combo, flash, provoke, or war drum.

STR on a turtle style tank as primary stat is a joke for obvious reasons.

Never mind the skills and DPS that help warrior shine, paladin is obviously at a huge disadvantage from go.

That is just my logical take on it.

[Aceofspades]

Ace, your answer to the fix being VIT and block is part of the problem, I think. Warrior primary stats are STR & VIT. Two things a tanks that holds hate with dps based skills absolutely need. Paladin gets STR and MND. A meat shield should have stats of DEX as it increases shield skills (as noted by in game tool tips) and VIT, to increase HP and damage mitigation. In effect, warrior is 2/2 with their primary stat, and paladin is 0/2. I understand MND increase enimity with ONE combo (flat) and maybe let's you do 5 damage to the boss you're fight instead of 4, but that just isnt enough.

MND does not increase amount healed on paladin (proven), it also does not effect enmity on phalnex/spirits combo, flash, provoke, or war drum.

STR on a turtle style tank as primary stat is a joke for obvious reasons.

Never mind the skills and DPS that help warrior shine, paladin is obviously at a huge disadvantage from go.

That is just my logical take on it.

Ummm, PLD's stats are MND and VIT..... not sure where you got str, and dext dose little if anything for your block rate, not that block rate needs much improvment anymore. Maybe a little deeper investigation into the job itself and you will better understand PLD and why its not realy broken, just a misuse of stats by the player base.

[waldo]

Ummm, PLD's stats are MND and VIT..... not sure where you got str, and dext dose little if anything for your block rate, not that block rate needs much improvment anymore. Maybe a little deeper investigation into the job itself and you will better understand PLD and why its not realy broken, just a misuse of stats by the player base.

Since patch 1.20:

Please be warned that it will not be possible to undo point allotment for the duration of patch 1.20. For your reference, the following is a list of the six basic parameters and the various attributes they affect.

≪Parameters and Their Effects≫

Strength
•Attack Power
•Damage dealt by puglist, gladiator, marauder, and lancer arms
Vitality
•Damage taken
•Enhancement Magic Potency
•Maximum HP
•Damage dealt by marauder arms
Dexterity
•Accuracy
•Block Rate
•Parry
•Damage dealt by archer arms
Intelligence
•Attack Magic Potency
•Damage dealt by pugilist arms
Mind
•Healing Magic Potency
•Magic Accuracy
•Damage dealt by gladiator, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms
Piety
•Magic Evasion
•Enfeebling Magic Potency
•Maximum MP
•Damage dealt by archer, lancer, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms
≪Auto-attack Damage Bonus≫

Class Bonus 1 Bonus 2
Pugilist Intelligence Strength
Gladiator Mind Strength
Marauder Vitality Strength
Archer Dexterity Piety
Lancer Piety Strength
Conjurer Mind Piety
Thaumaturge Mind Piety
* The above damage bonus also applies to “Shot” attacks by archers.


Follow this link if you want to see for yourself:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tch-1.20-Notes

You're digging yourself into a hole Ace, and that hole's name is "you dont know what you're talking about"

[Aceofspades]

Since patch 1.20:

Please be warned that it will not be possible to undo point allotment for the duration of patch 1.20. For your reference, the following is a list of the six basic parameters and the various attributes they affect.

≪Parameters and Their Effects≫

Strength
•Attack Power
•Damage dealt by puglist, gladiator, marauder, and lancer arms
Vitality
•Damage taken
•Enhancement Magic Potency
•Maximum HP
•Damage dealt by marauder arms
Dexterity
•Accuracy
•Block Rate
•Parry
•Damage dealt by archer arms
Intelligence
•Attack Magic Potency
•Damage dealt by pugilist arms
Mind
•Healing Magic Potency
•Magic Accuracy
•Damage dealt by gladiator, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms
Piety
•Magic Evasion
•Enfeebling Magic Potency
•Maximum MP
•Damage dealt by archer, lancer, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms
≪Auto-attack Damage Bonus≫

Class Bonus 1 Bonus 2
Pugilist Intelligence Strength
Gladiator Mind Strength
Marauder Vitality Strength
Archer Dexterity Piety
Lancer Piety Strength
Conjurer Mind Piety
Thaumaturge Mind Piety
* The above damage bonus also applies to “Shot” attacks by archers.


Follow this link if you want to see for yourself:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tch-1.20-Notes

You're digging yourself into a hole Ace, and that hole's name is "you dont know what you're talking about"

lol your right , wait a tic, GLA.... is gladiator PLD? Nooo that cant be right , maybe thats why when you change to PLD ( a completly diffrent job) your HP gose down and mp gose up, along with healing magic potency and whats this? Mind not only effects holy succor but also how much enmity fast blade to flat blade produces? Well that dosent make any sense since vit and STR are obvoiusly the two main stats for PLD... thats just crazy. Hmm maybe you should take heed to your own warning, if you have already pust points into str for your PLD thats just dumb, I didnt even do that with GLA, VIT and MND, honestly if you couldnt figure that out without a some sort of guide then your hopeless

[Raymeo]

lol your right , wait a tic, GLA.... is gladiator PLD? Nooo that cant be right , maybe thats why when you change to PLD ( a completly diffrent job) your HP gose down and mp gose up

Which is a problem that the devs have stated an intention to fix shortly, and therefore an unintended mistake and a moot point.

Sauce:

Even though we just released patch 1.22, I’d like to talk a bit about the plans for job/class balance adjustments that are to take place in patch 1.22b.

Paladin and Gladiator

We will be getting rid of the max HP reduction when changing from gladiator to paladin and as a result will be making adjustments to increase their max HP. Additionally, we will be enhancing shield blocks.

Also, take note of the way that they put this change under the heading "Paladin AND Gladiator." Like EVERY other job in the game, Paladin shares its formulas with its respective class, which is Gladiator in the case of Paladins. So to answer your question (even though it was sarcastically rhetorical), is Paladin a completely different job from Gladiator? No, it's the exact same job (at least when it comes to stats and attributes, which is what you're arguing about). Again, you're just digging yourself deeper. Quit while you're... well... while you're not as behind as you could be.

Next, take note of the two things that they're focusing on fixing for Paladins in this patch: Blocks and HP, being the two fundamentals of a meat shield, which are tied to DEX and VIT respectively. Even though those are obviously the two most important aspects of a meat shield, the fact that these fixes are planned would indicate that Paladins are actually experiencing a deficiency in those areas, when they should be the two areas that Paladins excel the most in. Why is this happening? It's happening because the game is encouraging Paladins to cap their STR and MND first, before thinking about VIT and DEX. All that Waldo is saying is that these problems wouldn't exist if those two important tanking stats, DEX and VIT for Block and HP, were simply patched to be Paladin's primary stats over STR and MND. It seems like an obvious solution, and nobody's saying that STR and MND shouldn't still be important to Paladins. They should remain important. They just shouldn't be the first stats that we're encouraged to cap.

----------

I understand what you mean when you wonder why Paladins are choosing STR and MND over VIT and DEX to begin with. After all, STR affects damage and MND affects heals, neither of which is a primary focus for tanking when compared to blocks, defense, and HP. However there are a lot of things to consider here:

(1) Your allocated attributes as a party-focused Paladin get locked into your solo-focused Gladiator class as well, and nobody wants to end up soloing as a pure turtle with no damage-dealing capabilities. (2) While damage from STR doesn't help with survivability, any boost in damage helps with generating a little boost in Enmity, which is also important to a tank. That's not to mention a boost in kill speed as well, which is always desirable for any class. If a paladin wants to stack VIT instead of STR in order to grab some extra tank survivability, then they end up sacrificing enmity generation and kill speed as a result. WAR is not faced with these dilemmas. Both VIT and STR provide them with all of the above. Not only does this remove any need for them to choose between enmity and kill speed or survivability, but it also ends up doublingthe effectiveness that they gain in all of the above areas. (3) Practically the same thing, but with MND. MND affects our damage, and the enmity generated by our enmity combos like flat blade. We're forced into yet ANOTHER decision between kill speed and enmity or survivabilty. Why should we be forced TWICE into to choosing between extra enmity and kill speed via MND and/or STR, and extra survivability via VIT and/or DEX, when WAR doesn't have to choose between anything at all? Everything about a WAR is handed to them all at once, with everything being tied into the two stats of STR and VIT, period.

So to resolve your confusion, Paladins are choosing MND and STR over VIT and DEX for a couple of reasons. One is that it keeps Gladiator as a viable option for solo play. The other is that it's the only way for Paladins to compete with the enmity generation and kill speed of Warriors. If you can't compete with Warriors in these areas, then (A) you won't be able to keep hate off of Warriors anymore, so Warriors will just end up tanking anyway, and (B) nobody will invite you to begin with because you'll slow them down more than a Warrior. So if you want to have a chance in hell at tanking, then you need to stack your STR and MND first, or at least one of the two (most likely being MND for the added bonus of Holy Succor potency). Survivability is an afterthought until you can secure yourself a position in a party and maintain a high enough level of threat to actually tank.

[waldo]

Ummm, PLD's stats are MND and VIT..... not sure where you got str, and dext dose little if anything for your block rate, not that block rate needs much improvment anymore. Maybe a little deeper investigation into the job itself and you will better understand PLD and why its not realy broken, just a misuse of stats by the player base.

You know I can't leave it alone. This paragragh sums it up perfectly Ace. The patch notes I posted clearly show you are... I'm going to try and stay nice here... you are clueless. You claim to be all knowing, and you are wrong most of the time, and when proven wrong you just keep going. This will be my last reply to you. Again, in short:
≪Parameters and Their Effects≫
STR - Damage delt by Gladiator/Paladin - MRD/Warrior
DEX - Block Rate, Parry Rate
MND - Damage delt by Gladiator/Paladin
VIT - Damage taken, Damage dealt by Marauder, Max HP.

Class bonus for GLA/PLD: #1 MND #2 STR
Class bonus for MRD/WAR: #1 VIT #2 STR

[Aceofspades]

You know I can't leave it alone. This paragragh sums it up perfectly Ace. The patch notes I posted clearly show you are... I'm going to try and stay nice here... you are clueless. You claim to be all knowing, and you are wrong most of the time, and when proven wrong you just keep going. This will be my last reply to you. Again, in short:
≪Parameters and Their Effects≫
STR - Damage delt by Gladiator/Paladin - MRD/Warrior
DEX - Block Rate, Parry Rate
MND - Damage delt by Gladiator/Paladin
VIT - Damage taken, Damage dealt by Marauder, Max HP.

Class bonus for GLA/PLD: #1 MND #2 STR
Class bonus for MRD/WAR: #1 VIT #2 STR

Lol proven wrong? Oh please do elaberate... Please tell me how STR is more benificial to PLD or even GLD for that matter. No your right , I am clueless, just so you know when you get that far, WAR tank is a delicate balance between DD stats and tank stats , enless you can keep from gimping one you realy cant improve the other, best tank gear for war that I have seen thus far is Full AF, that is when you get that far. Hope to god you realy didnt add STR to your PLD, that would have been just dumb, but to each their own , enjoy.

[kro]

Ace, your reading comprehension and writing skills leave much to be desired.

The following is taken from the patch notes for 1.20:

Fact #1:

GLA and PLD get a secondary damage bonus from STR and MND.

Fact #2:

MRD and WAR get a secondary damage bonus from STR and VIT.

Conclusions:

-Adding VIT to a MRD or WAR increases its survivability as well as its ability to deal damage.
-Adding VIT to a GLA or PLD only increases its survivability.

Therefore, VIT is more beneficial to a MRD/WAR because it serves two purposes instead of just one.

GLA and PLD do not get any extra bonuses to damage from VIT. They get it from STR and MND. What people have been arguing is that GLA and PLD should have gotten these bonuses from VIT rather than STR since most people would logically stack VIT on a tank.

[Aceofspades]

[QUOTE=kro;690222]Ace, your reading comprehension and writing skills leave much to be desired.

The following is taken from the patch notes for 1.20:

Fact #1:

GLA and PLD get a secondary damage bonus from STR and MND.

Fact #2:

MRD and WAR get a secondary damage bonus from STR and VIT.

Conclusions:

-Adding VIT to a MRD or WAR increases its survivability as well as its ability to deal damage.
-Adding VIT to a GLA or PLD only increases its survivability.

Therefore, VIT is more beneficial to a MRD/WAR because it serves two purposes instead of just one.

GLA and PLD do not get any extra bonuses to damage from VIT. They get it from STR and MND. What people have been arguing is that GLA and PLD should have gotten these bonuses from VIT rather than STR since most people would logically stack VIT on a tank.[/QUOTE

Right, not argueing that, I am simply saying, reguardless of what kind of stats give a damage boost, why on earth would anyone in their right mind prioritize stats on a PLD tank to deal damage. Even tho war gets no "bonus" for accuracy its obvious that WAR would certainly benifit from it, all that dd would otherwise be worthless. There is no way PLD can keep its turtle tank like abilties and stack stats that encourage high enough dps to be worthy of note.
I agree, if there were gona add a damage bonus stat, VIT would be far more benificial to PLD, HOWEVER, If I were se and I didnt want players developing tanks that not only deflected damage realy well, but also self healed/buffed realy well AND did DPS realy well then I would purposly make them choose stats in wich they could not have the best of both worlds. This is the apearent problem with war, because they do all of that , except damage deflection, realy well , players have stacked WARs in many party set ups defeating Yoshi's admited purpose of the Jobs. Wich is why WAR is being adjusted to the point in wich player may have a good tank OR a good dd, not both.
Increasing damage on PLD , IMO, has more to do with the future PVP aspects. PLD is expected to do little damage but most certainly needed a DPS buff to give it any chance in a PVP role. I seriously doubt any DPS buff would make PLD a suitable DD class.
Back to the point at hand. I strongly recomend stacking stats on PLD in this order of presidence : DEF > VIT > MND > DEX (for acc and block rate) > Emnity + > HP (keep in mind HP comes with VIT and your max HP increases with VIT, after 2.2b PLD will share the same "max hp boost" that war currently has, at that time High vit stats will be more valuable then HP if its not already.