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  1. #61
    Player
    Skies's Avatar
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    Nov 2011
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    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    1,723
    Character
    Y'ahte Tia
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 90
    Aceofspades I swear to god... Use linebreaks, goddamit, I can hardly read what you wrote
    (0)

  2. #62
    Player
    waldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    287
    Character
    Lilly Grace
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Ace, your answer to the fix being VIT and block is part of the problem, I think. Warrior primary stats are STR & VIT. Two things a tanks that holds hate with dps based skills absolutely need. Paladin gets STR and MND. A meat shield should have stats of DEX as it increases shield skills (as noted by in game tool tips) and VIT, to increase HP and damage mitigation. In effect, warrior is 2/2 with their primary stat, and paladin is 0/2. I understand MND increase enimity with ONE combo (flat) and maybe let's you do 5 damage to the boss you're fight instead of 4, but that just isnt enough.

    MND does not increase amount healed on paladin (proven), it also does not effect enmity on phalnex/spirits combo, flash, provoke, or war drum.

    STR on a turtle style tank as primary stat is a joke for obvious reasons.

    Never mind the skills and DPS that help warrior shine, paladin is obviously at a huge disadvantage from go.

    That is just my logical take on it.
    (5)
    Last edited by waldo; 05-16-2012 at 12:32 AM.

  3. #63
    Player
    1clou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    35
    Character
    Cloudi Strife
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 50
    Made some sauce to swim in below for our "special" person on this thread~.

    Aceofspades...for someone who thinks they are one of the best...you clearly don't have the comprehension of how broken Gla/Pld really is even after countless rants you post on other several forum threads on this topic. Your blatant disregard for pure fact clearly outlines your stupidity over the current situation. Warrior has ALL the abilities pertinent from Gla and Pug to make it more efficient tanking and taking less damage while still putting out second best damage class wise.

    Even if we aren't looking at the aspect of War doing way more damage, lets pretend Warrior hits like a little toddler with a rubber mallet...Warrior has just as many abilities for holding hate as Paladin in any given situation so they are equal that way(not including Warrior being better for groups of targets since that should be redundantly clear >.> just so its clear for you all know who..."/stare @ Aceofspades") As well has just as much if not more abilities for negating damage altogether ie: featherfoot(1min), foresight(1min), second-wind(45sec), rampage{continuous}(although negligible is still pertinent), Sentinel(1min), Rampart(not positive on time, but it is 1min+, but being both have it meh)

    Paladin on the other hand has is: Aegis Boon(1min), Holy Succor(could be using wrong name and don't care atm, as we know it is guaranteed block effect)(1min), Sentinel(1min), Rampart(both classes can use and as stated both have it so meh)

    Now both are fairly balanced you would think for negating damage, but Warrior can more dependably sustain its own through negation and self restoration....and curing yourself doesn't count as the mp return from outmaneuver is nice, but negligible and Cover is pretty nice that way...but your not going to have someone run in fighting Chimera just so you can use it, same with Coin-Counter. and as far as Miser goes....oh wow look your silenced...oh i got silena....oh im silenced again...what im saying its not dependable where as second wind sure you might be amnesia'd, but oh im not amnesia'd anymore*poof used it for a good 600hp while you watch PLD try to cure self but is interrupted or silenced yet again.

    Defense is a bullsh*t excuse to use when talking about taking less damage as both classes are capable of wearing the same armor and equipping the same materia...so your still going to take the same amount of damage as each other that way within 1-200 dmg whoopie and before you say oh but I have a shield...let me ask you this...you can count on this proc'ing??? uh no you can't, its a fact....so your going to take pretty d*mn close to the same damage a Warrior is....sooo that brings me to another point

    Warrior has more HP pool and significantly(depending on how patch 1.22b goes this could change in comparison to PLD); which everyone with half a working brain who isn't driven to say THEY are the only good PLD or ONLY person who knows what they are doing without "getting lost in the sauce" as you said to another disrespectfully; knows that a far larger HP pool brings a lot of security to the party. Sure sure add your defense and lose out on hp and lessen the risk of a 1hit K.O....your mages are still going to have to heal just as much because you sacrificed defense for hp where as other people who decide to go HP over Defense are being cured just as much to help buffer you from that 1 hit K.O. So whether you go HP or Def it doesn't matter...which brings me to my point, Gla/Pld can choose one of these aspects HP or Def, where as Warrior has BOTH....that is either pretty nice amount of HP with high Def, insane amount of HP.

    Big Joe:"Lets see who am I going to go with...I think I will go with the new born with the rubber mallet cause I don't want to risk tank death to have everyone die after or things go a rye. I would like to take you PLD, but I just don't feel as secure, maybe next time!"

    Now lets incorporate something PLD doesn't have....oh damage so lets see what Big Joe has to say about this....Big Joe:"Oh awesome, not only are you great for tanking you can do insane amount of damage~! I'm glad we didn't get the PLD cause I was wondering if he would be able to take those big hits~! Plus this way is Wayyyyy more efficient"

    So over all Warrior has just as much if not more self preservation abilities as PLD, but is able to do it better with the bonus of having more HP and much higher Damage which over-all doesn't just make the group feel safer through enmity generation even just through abilities like PLD, but also have an HP pool that allows for forgiveness, but also pumps out damage second to BLM making a battle far less prolonged and risky over time.

    So Aceofspades next time you have something to say, try and make it a little more productive or rather realistic in comparison to your mindless rants on how your the ONLY person who knows how to play PLD or tank, or non-QQ. We all know how to play the game or at the very least are able to learn...we all have our own playing style.

    Overall on a more serious note, PLD needs better natural dmg mitigation, and/or mp regeneration that is more reliable/adaptable to various situations(ie when party members are not in range to cover for mp regeneration) with larger HP pool to play with.

    So far I have liked a lot of the ideas people have brought to threads like this. Keep up the good work everyone~!
    Don't "get lost in the sauce" and drown now Aceofspades, don't know if there be many people to reel you back in...but I will say I would like to see you try to swim in the sauce...it looks pretty thick!
    (3)

  4. #64
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    401
    Quote Originally Posted by waldo View Post
    Ace, your answer to the fix being VIT and block is part of the problem, I think. Warrior primary stats are STR & VIT. Two things a tanks that holds hate with dps based skills absolutely need. Paladin gets STR and MND. A meat shield should have stats of DEX as it increases shield skills (as noted by in game tool tips) and VIT, to increase HP and damage mitigation. In effect, warrior is 2/2 with their primary stat, and paladin is 0/2. I understand MND increase enimity with ONE combo (flat) and maybe let's you do 5 damage to the boss you're fight instead of 4, but that just isnt enough.

    MND does not increase amount healed on paladin (proven), it also does not effect enmity on phalnex/spirits combo, flash, provoke, or war drum.

    STR on a turtle style tank as primary stat is a joke for obvious reasons.

    Never mind the skills and DPS that help warrior shine, paladin is obviously at a huge disadvantage from go.

    That is just my logical take on it.
    Ummm, PLD's stats are MND and VIT..... not sure where you got str, and dext dose little if anything for your block rate, not that block rate needs much improvment anymore. Maybe a little deeper investigation into the job itself and you will better understand PLD and why its not realy broken, just a misuse of stats by the player base.
    (0)

  5. #65
    Player
    waldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    287
    Character
    Lilly Grace
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceofspades View Post
    Ummm, PLD's stats are MND and VIT..... not sure where you got str, and dext dose little if anything for your block rate, not that block rate needs much improvment anymore. Maybe a little deeper investigation into the job itself and you will better understand PLD and why its not realy broken, just a misuse of stats by the player base.
    Since patch 1.20:

    Please be warned that it will not be possible to undo point allotment for the duration of patch 1.20. For your reference, the following is a list of the six basic parameters and the various attributes they affect.

    ≪Parameters and Their Effects≫

    Strength
    •Attack Power
    •Damage dealt by puglist, gladiator, marauder, and lancer arms
    Vitality
    •Damage taken
    •Enhancement Magic Potency
    •Maximum HP
    •Damage dealt by marauder arms
    Dexterity
    •Accuracy
    •Block Rate
    •Parry
    •Damage dealt by archer arms
    Intelligence
    •Attack Magic Potency
    •Damage dealt by pugilist arms
    Mind
    •Healing Magic Potency
    •Magic Accuracy
    •Damage dealt by gladiator, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms
    Piety
    •Magic Evasion
    •Enfeebling Magic Potency
    •Maximum MP
    •Damage dealt by archer, lancer, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms
    ≪Auto-attack Damage Bonus≫

    Class Bonus 1 Bonus 2
    Pugilist Intelligence Strength
    Gladiator Mind Strength
    Marauder Vitality Strength
    Archer Dexterity Piety
    Lancer Piety Strength
    Conjurer Mind Piety
    Thaumaturge Mind Piety
    * The above damage bonus also applies to “Shot” attacks by archers.


    Follow this link if you want to see for yourself:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tch-1.20-Notes

    You're digging yourself into a hole Ace, and that hole's name is "you dont know what you're talking about"
    (2)

  6. #66
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    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    401
    Quote Originally Posted by 1clou View Post
    Made some sauce to swim in below for our "special" person on this thread~.

    Aceofspades...for someone who thinks they are one of the best...you clearly don't have the comprehension of how broken Gla/Pld really is even after countless rants you post on other several forum threads on this topic. Your blatant disregard for pure fact clearly outlines your stupidity over the current situation. Warrior has ALL the abilities pertinent from Gla and Pug to make it more efficient tanking and taking less damage while still putting out second best damage class wise.

    Even if we aren't looking at the aspect of War doing way more damage, lets pretend Warrior hits like a little toddler with a rubber mallet...Warrior has just as many abilities for holding hate as Paladin in any given situation so they are equal that way(not including Warrior being better for groups of targets since that should be redundantly clear >.> just so its clear for you all know who..."/stare @ Aceofspades") As well has just as much if not more abilities for negating damage altogether ie: featherfoot(1min), foresight(1min), second-wind(45sec), rampage{continuous}(although negligible is still pertinent), Sentinel(1min), Rampart(not positive on time, but it is 1min+, but being both have it meh)

    Paladin on the other hand has is: Aegis Boon(1min), Holy Succor(could be using wrong name and don't care atm, as we know it is guaranteed block effect)(1min), Sentinel(1min), Rampart(both classes can use and as stated both have it so meh)

    Now both are fairly balanced you would think for negating damage, but Warrior can more dependably sustain its own through negation and self restoration....and curing yourself doesn't count as the mp return from outmaneuver is nice, but negligible and Cover is pretty nice that way...but your not going to have someone run in fighting Chimera just so you can use it, same with Coin-Counter. and as far as Miser goes....oh wow look your silenced...oh i got silena....oh im silenced again...what im saying its not dependable where as second wind sure you might be amnesia'd, but oh im not amnesia'd anymore*poof used it for a good 600hp while you watch PLD try to cure self but is interrupted or silenced yet again.

    Defense is a bullsh*t excuse to use when talking about taking less damage as both classes are capable of wearing the same armor and equipping the same materia...so your still going to take the same amount of damage as each other that way within 1-200 dmg whoopie and before you say oh but I have a shield...let me ask you this...you can count on this proc'ing??? uh no you can't, its a fact....so your going to take pretty d*mn close to the same damage a Warrior is....sooo that brings me to another point

    Warrior has more HP pool and significantly(depending on how patch 1.22b goes this could change in comparison to PLD); which everyone with half a working brain who isn't driven to say THEY are the only good PLD or ONLY person who knows what they are doing without "getting lost in the sauce" as you said to another disrespectfully; knows that a far larger HP pool brings a lot of security to the party. Sure sure add your defense and lose out on hp and lessen the risk of a 1hit K.O....your mages are still going to have to heal just as much because you sacrificed defense for hp where as other people who decide to go HP over Defense are being cured just as much to help buffer you from that 1 hit K.O. So whether you go HP or Def it doesn't matter...which brings me to my point, Gla/Pld can choose one of these aspects HP or Def, where as Warrior has BOTH....that is either pretty nice amount of HP with high Def, insane amount of HP.

    Big Joe:"Lets see who am I going to go with...I think I will go with the new born with the rubber mallet cause I don't want to risk tank death to have everyone die after or things go a rye. I would like to take you PLD, but I just don't feel as secure, maybe next time!"

    Now lets incorporate something PLD doesn't have....oh damage so lets see what Big Joe has to say about this....Big Joe:"Oh awesome, not only are you great for tanking you can do insane amount of damage~! I'm glad we didn't get the PLD cause I was wondering if he would be able to take those big hits~! Plus this way is Wayyyyy more efficient"

    So over all Warrior has just as much if not more self preservation abilities as PLD, but is able to do it better with the bonus of having more HP and much higher Damage which over-all doesn't just make the group feel safer through enmity generation even just through abilities like PLD, but also have an HP pool that allows for forgiveness, but also pumps out damage second to BLM making a battle far less prolonged and risky over time.

    So Aceofspades next time you have something to say, try and make it a little more productive or rather realistic in comparison to your mindless rants on how your the ONLY person who knows how to play PLD or tank, or non-QQ. We all know how to play the game or at the very least are able to learn...we all have our own playing style.

    Overall on a more serious note, PLD needs better natural dmg mitigation, and/or mp regeneration that is more reliable/adaptable to various situations(ie when party members are not in range to cover for mp regeneration) with larger HP pool to play with.

    So far I have liked a lot of the ideas people have brought to threads like this. Keep up the good work everyone~!
    Don't "get lost in the sauce" and drown now Aceofspades, don't know if there be many people to reel you back in...but I will say I would like to see you try to swim in the sauce...it looks pretty thick!
    OMG you have opened my eyes, how could I have ever though that PLD was not broken and is perfectly capable of performing as well if not better in some cases as a WAR. BLAH BLAH BLAH, heard it all before. The fact you even replied in such length means I must of hit a nerve. Soo you too must be one who insists that becuase he can not do it , it simply can not be done, get in line behind all the other "Elitest" who say it can't be done, in the mean time I'm going to enjoy getting it done with PLD, as far as doing all the new content, yeah , I have yet to do it all, but to say that its because I tank on PLD and has nothing to do with any other contributing factor (leveling crafting jobs, helping my LS with content they have yet to complete, farming old content for drops , doing other new content other then endgame..ect ect) yeah none of that could possably be why I have yet to beat the 2 new dungeons or garuda, It is all because PLD sucks and I am stupid, while we are at it, feel free to put all that high def/vit pld gear up in the wards for super cheap since it sucks soo badly, I am always looking for a cheap set of gear to attempt triple melds on
    (0)

  7. #67
    Player
    waldo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    287
    Character
    Lilly Grace
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceofspades View Post
    Ummm, PLD's stats are MND and VIT..... not sure where you got str, and dext dose little if anything for your block rate, not that block rate needs much improvment anymore. Maybe a little deeper investigation into the job itself and you will better understand PLD and why its not realy broken, just a misuse of stats by the player base.
    You know I can't leave it alone. This paragragh sums it up perfectly Ace. The patch notes I posted clearly show you are... I'm going to try and stay nice here... you are clueless. You claim to be all knowing, and you are wrong most of the time, and when proven wrong you just keep going. This will be my last reply to you. Again, in short:
    ≪Parameters and Their Effects≫
    STR - Damage delt by Gladiator/Paladin - MRD/Warrior
    DEX - Block Rate, Parry Rate
    MND - Damage delt by Gladiator/Paladin
    VIT - Damage taken, Damage dealt by Marauder, Max HP.

    Class bonus for GLA/PLD: #1 MND #2 STR
    Class bonus for MRD/WAR: #1 VIT #2 STR
    (5)

  8. #68
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    Jan 2012
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    401
    Quote Originally Posted by waldo View Post
    Since patch 1.20:

    Please be warned that it will not be possible to undo point allotment for the duration of patch 1.20. For your reference, the following is a list of the six basic parameters and the various attributes they affect.

    ≪Parameters and Their Effects≫

    Strength
    •Attack Power
    •Damage dealt by puglist, gladiator, marauder, and lancer arms
    Vitality
    •Damage taken
    •Enhancement Magic Potency
    •Maximum HP
    •Damage dealt by marauder arms
    Dexterity
    •Accuracy
    •Block Rate
    •Parry
    •Damage dealt by archer arms
    Intelligence
    •Attack Magic Potency
    •Damage dealt by pugilist arms
    Mind
    •Healing Magic Potency
    •Magic Accuracy
    •Damage dealt by gladiator, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms
    Piety
    •Magic Evasion
    •Enfeebling Magic Potency
    •Maximum MP
    •Damage dealt by archer, lancer, thaumaturge, and conjurer arms
    ≪Auto-attack Damage Bonus≫

    Class Bonus 1 Bonus 2
    Pugilist Intelligence Strength
    Gladiator Mind Strength
    Marauder Vitality Strength
    Archer Dexterity Piety
    Lancer Piety Strength
    Conjurer Mind Piety
    Thaumaturge Mind Piety
    * The above damage bonus also applies to “Shot” attacks by archers.


    Follow this link if you want to see for yourself:
    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tch-1.20-Notes

    You're digging yourself into a hole Ace, and that hole's name is "you dont know what you're talking about"
    lol your right , wait a tic, GLA.... is gladiator PLD? Nooo that cant be right , maybe thats why when you change to PLD ( a completly diffrent job) your HP gose down and mp gose up, along with healing magic potency and whats this? Mind not only effects holy succor but also how much enmity fast blade to flat blade produces? Well that dosent make any sense since vit and STR are obvoiusly the two main stats for PLD... thats just crazy. Hmm maybe you should take heed to your own warning, if you have already pust points into str for your PLD thats just dumb, I didnt even do that with GLA, VIT and MND, honestly if you couldnt figure that out without a some sort of guide then your hopeless
    (0)

  9. #69
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    Jan 2012
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    401
    Quote Originally Posted by waldo View Post
    You know I can't leave it alone. This paragragh sums it up perfectly Ace. The patch notes I posted clearly show you are... I'm going to try and stay nice here... you are clueless. You claim to be all knowing, and you are wrong most of the time, and when proven wrong you just keep going. This will be my last reply to you. Again, in short:
    ≪Parameters and Their Effects≫
    STR - Damage delt by Gladiator/Paladin - MRD/Warrior
    DEX - Block Rate, Parry Rate
    MND - Damage delt by Gladiator/Paladin
    VIT - Damage taken, Damage dealt by Marauder, Max HP.

    Class bonus for GLA/PLD: #1 MND #2 STR
    Class bonus for MRD/WAR: #1 VIT #2 STR
    Lol proven wrong? Oh please do elaberate... Please tell me how STR is more benificial to PLD or even GLD for that matter. No your right , I am clueless, just so you know when you get that far, WAR tank is a delicate balance between DD stats and tank stats , enless you can keep from gimping one you realy cant improve the other, best tank gear for war that I have seen thus far is Full AF, that is when you get that far. Hope to god you realy didnt add STR to your PLD, that would have been just dumb, but to each their own , enjoy.
    (0)

  10. 05-16-2012 10:27 AM
    Reason
    nm

  11. #70
    Player
    kro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    122
    Character
    Rachel Alucard
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    Ace, your reading comprehension and writing skills leave much to be desired.

    The following is taken from the patch notes for 1.20:

    Fact #1:

    GLA and PLD get a secondary damage bonus from STR and MND.

    Fact #2:

    MRD and WAR get a secondary damage bonus from STR and VIT.

    Conclusions:

    -Adding VIT to a MRD or WAR increases its survivability as well as its ability to deal damage.
    -Adding VIT to a GLA or PLD only increases its survivability.

    Therefore, VIT is more beneficial to a MRD/WAR because it serves two purposes instead of just one.

    GLA and PLD do not get any extra bonuses to damage from VIT. They get it from STR and MND. What people have been arguing is that GLA and PLD should have gotten these bonuses from VIT rather than STR since most people would logically stack VIT on a tank.
    (6)

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