Locking dyable artifact gear behind a extreme trial, good idea?

[Enla]

You don't need a static to clear any EX comfortably. You just need the majority of the party to be at least half way paying attention and to know what abilities do. Its simply not something that you should expect a bunch of randoms to carry you through easily. Its still casual content. Just the higher end of it where players need to pull their own weight.

And to have a generally good attitude about it. Half my static went into today to get some clears and we had the most bizarre encounter with this one player who tried to boss everyone around, but contributed to 90% of all the deaths. After like the third wipe they dipped entirely without a word??? Then a friend of a friend came and helped fill that last spot and it was generally smooth sailings from then on out, save a few instances of the party tunnel visioning (myself included) but most people were fine with a few wipes because we were all still learning. Got the clear a little while later and stayed an hour to farm it a bit before we all had to go our separate ways.

It's just baffling to me how the players with the most abrasive attitudes in these clear parties tend to be the ones causing the most issues. Then once they leave it's honestly rather pleasant.

All that said after getting more time with the EX, I do question why they put the AF gear behind content that isn't exactly casual friendly for a good amount of the playerbase. It's not the hardest EX by far, but having people who aren't really up for the dance or how to learn it is definitely making it harder than it needs to be.

[IttyBitty]

@Ea: And this is already a problem. You think that Ex trials are still casual, but in my opinion (for example) they are not. Anything that needs a party with plans (and training or/and guide) is not casual anymore.

You don't *need* a guide, nor do you need a preformed party. You just need time and a good attitude. You don't even need to be fantastic at your class most of the time. Observe what happens and either react to it or talk over what happened with your party members if you wipe/die. That's really all it takes to learn a fight. By level 80 you should have a grasp of the mechanics that fights throw at you. EX fights usually introduce maybe 1-2 things you've never seen before.

Basically, make/round up some friends who have good attitudes and go at it. Or join a learning party in PF, whatever, I'm not your mother. But acting like this is some Herculean task for the majority of players is silly. They just need to step up to the plate and give it a shot.

On the other hand, when some players asked to delay savage of 1~2 weeks at most, the hardcore raiders said they wanted the content right away, just because (see this thread for instance). I don't know your stance on this other topic, but whatever it is you have to realize that when the hardcore part of the community says they can't wait another week to start savage, telling the casuals that they should wait two years to get dyeable gear is quite the absurdity.

Also I need to say something about this. I actually bothered to go through that thread and check out who was saying what. The players pushing for it the hardest were raiders. Out of all the naysayers, the number of people against it with any clears in any savage fight of this tier can be counted on a single hand. The majority of the others don't even touch Savage, so I have no idea where the hell you are getting the idea that the "hardcore" players were against it.

[Jirah]

Considering in future updates the trial will be easy to the point of soloable....or at the very last 4 maned. I think it’s better than freaking Erueka leveling 20 levels and killing Pazuzu 3 times and being afk for fate trains for several hours...compared to Idylshire just giving you the dyeablies via poetics. Or ARR where it was based on their mercy of the MB

[Alleo]

This was a bit my point. SE clearly think it is, hence this content.

We dont know what SE thinks. It could also be that they have created that trial, had no time to create new gear or a mount for it and just thought: Well lets put artifact gear as dyeable behind it..the devs are not always making good choices. If they had wanted this to be the casual part why not give them an increase in ilvl?

You don't *need* a guide, nor do you need a preformed party. You just need time and a good attitude. You don't even need to be fantastic at your class most of the time. Observe what happens and either react to it or talk over what happened with your party members if you wipe/die. That's really all it takes to learn a fight. By level 80 you should have a grasp of the mechanics that fights throw at you. EX fights usually introduce maybe 1-2 things you've never seen before.

Basically, make/round up some friends who have good attitudes and go at it. Or join a learning party in PF, whatever, I'm not your mother. But acting like this is some Herculean task for the majority of players is silly. They just need to step up to the plate and give it a shot.

And if you dont have that round of friends? Go into a learning party and how often do they want you to have watched a guide? If most people in this game were good at it then normal fights would not need all the nerfs..I remember how nearly impossible steps of faith was because a lot of people had problems following instructions. I dont want to count the time with randoms in normal dungeons where they did not even know how to aoe..and the countless of wipes in normal trials because people at lvl 80 still dont understand easy mechanics like stacking. There is a reason why one of the biggest threads on this forum is about stories from the Duty finder.

And if its so easy and most can do it then why do we even have the relic weapon? Why give the casual players are more easy but grindy way to get a good weapon. Let just throw a few in extreme trials and since most can do it lets just do that right?

[Duskane]

Considering in future updates the trial will be easy to the point of soloable....or at the very last 4 maned. I think it’s better than freaking Erueka leveling 20 levels and killing Pazuzu 3 times and being afk for fate trains for several hours...compared to Idylshire just giving you the dyeablies via poetics. Or ARR where it was based on their mercy of the MB

might take awhile for it to be solo or 4 man due to the stack marker but 100% you will be able to 1 tank ,1 healer and 6 dps it next expansion trivializing it unsync like Kefka and exdeath savage

[Eldevern]

Just to clarify something, when I'm writing format, it is actually format I mean. I could have wrote height players but it wouldn't be exact since normal trials and normal raid are height players too. The difference for me when I mean static format is : needs training for/before clear. In other words : you mostly can't clear as PU the first run at the release.

By the way static or not is not the matter, it is to know if we can consider any Ex as casual, the reply is clearly not.

[IttyBitty]

And if you dont have that round of friends?

Well, if you don't have a group of friends, you...make some? It's a social game? Is your friends list empty or something?

Go into a learning party and how often do they want you to have watched a guide?

Yes? You're aware that you are capable of creating your own parties, right? With your own conditions for how you want to go about completing it? There are plenty out there who are happy to learn blind. I've learnt pretty much every single fight I've done in the game blind, be it extreme trials or savage raids.

If most people in this game were good at it then normal fights would not need all the nerfs..

Actual nerfs when content is fresh are incredibly rare. Go look up when nerfs usually happen, especially the addition of the Echo buff. They're nearly always when content is long out of favour so that new players have an easier time getting through it (and so that old players who have done it countless times can get it done faster, so they don't bail instantly).

I remember how nearly impossible steps of faith was because a lot of people had problems following instructions. I dont want to count the time with randoms in normal dungeons where they did not even know how to aoe..and the countless of wipes in normal trials because people at lvl 80 still dont understand easy mechanics like stacking. There is a reason why one of the biggest threads on this forum is about stories from the Duty finder.

Yeah, and? Party finder isn't duty finder. You can curate your group to your heart's content. Become the "toxic elitist" within and kick people who aren't performing to your own specific standards as is your wont to do, especially given how little faith you have in your fellow players.

[Eldevern]

Well, if you don't have a group of friends, you...make some? It's a social game? Is your friends list empty or something?

You are a player on a NA server, right? Then I have a little thing to explain : a lot but really a lot of european players are not at all that comfortable with english language. Then making friend need to consider this factor american or english fluent folks don't have.

French players will play with french people, german with german, russian with russian etc. for the majority of them. It makes things more complicated for Ex and need-static contents. The second factor to consider is european, what american people don't know or don't pay attention on it are less motivated by "competitive contents". You can't change cultural aspects by just some kind of sarcasm. It is a matter of interest, of priority. Making friends is a thing, to find some for Ex Savage and so is different.

The language wall, NA players totally ignore this matter they don't have to take in consideration.

[Jirah]

If most people in this game were good at it then normal fights would not need all the nerfs..I remember how nearly impossible steps of faith was because a lot of people had problems following instructions. I dont want to count the time with randoms in normal dungeons where they did not even know how to aoe..and the countless of wipes in normal trials because people at lvl 80 still dont understand easy mechanics like stacking. There is a reason why one of the biggest threads on this forum is about stories from the Duty finder.

This is kinda off topic but when was the last time anything got nerfed in-game? Also when was the last time DPS didn’t know how to aoe turned into a wipe?

The difficulty issue (or non-issue) can’t be helped nobody does Alexander, nobody does Omega. Dungeons are scaled poorly so they’re a lot easier and can skip phases aswell as most trials. Difficulty can be overturned people just don’t have the patience to explain and just leave and complain in the forums. Players aren’t honed at all thanks to said lenient difficulty so when they do “Raids” for the first time it’s a difficulty spike they never seen while the chat is on fire with judgment and pretentious attitudes. I digress just passionate about this lost cause

[Eldevern]

...

When is the last time something got nerfed? Just read the 5.21 patchnote XD