Thread: Astro changes 5.1

Originally Posted by Side-Eye

At that point, the main problem I have with the 5.x card system is: for the relatively low amount of added DPS for others, 1) how many buttons I've pressed, 2) how many times I've changed targets, and 3) how much time I've diverted away from personal DPS and healing.

That's it in a nutshell. Unless Squeenix figures out a way to reduce how much clicking and re-targeting it takes to *use* the card system, the time and energy it consumes is horribly small compared to the end benefit. And I don't see any simple way for devs to reduce all that clicking and re-targeting without at least increasing the buff durations.

You are contributing about 800-1k dps to the group with those cards and buffs when playing them properly. That's not a small amount. And considering the upcoming update to Minor Arcana, SE is clearly making efforts to streamline the system. If you want to be doing that much less damage then it's on you.

As for the "diverting time away from dps and healing." Did you forget about the cast times on Malefic, Gravity, and Benefic I? Aspected Benefic and Combust being instant? The Lightspeed cooldown giving you double weaving space on everything else.? Even the controller gives you the ability the hard target one thing then soft target your party members to heal/buff them.

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

You are contributing about 800-1k dps to the group with those cards and buffs when playing them properly. That's not a small amount. And considering the upcoming update to Minor Arcana, SE is clearly making efforts to streamline the system. If you want to be doing that much less damage then it's on you.

As for the "diverting time away from dps and healing." Did you forget about the cast times on Malefic, Gravity, and Benefic I? Aspected Benefic and Combust being instant? The Lightspeed cooldown giving you double weaving space on everything else.? Even the controller gives you the ability the hard target one thing then soft target your party members to heal/buff them.

I think your DPS figure is a bit inflated and assumes we're able to click every single thing as it pops, which we all know doesn't happen when you're dodging mechs and healing.

Even so, in order to use those personal DPS spells, I have to change targets yet again to target the mob, then re-target tank and/or anyone else who needs healing, all in addition to switching targets for each individual card buff. There is no other job in FFXIV which has to engage in so much target changing in order to "perform" properly. I don't mind this healer being super-busy compared to the others (it always has been) -- I just want it to matter more. I don't think that's an unreasonable viewpoint.

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

You are contributing about 800-1k dps to the group with those cards and buffs when playing them properly. That's not a small amount. And considering the upcoming update to Minor Arcana, SE is clearly making efforts to streamline the system. If you want to be doing that much less damage then it's on you.

As for the "diverting time away from dps and healing." Did you forget about the cast times on Malefic, Gravity, and Benefic I? Aspected Benefic and Combust being instant? The Lightspeed cooldown giving you double weaving space on everything else.? Even the controller gives you the ability the hard target one thing then soft target your party members to heal/buff them.

I do not play this game to only care about my damage parse. I play this game to have fun, in my honest opinion it's people like that, that have literally destroyed my favorite class in the game "Fishing for balance". The Update to Minor arcana is a QoL for console players. There's no joy in having your utility gutted and downgraded to all damage cards, that's a joke. Buffing Combust and malefic, will not ever be in my mind a good substitute for the lack of passion towards this class.

Originally Posted by Side-Eye

I think your DPS figure is a bit inflated and assumes we're able to click every single thing as it pops, which we all know doesn't happen when you're dodging mechs and healing.

Even so, in order to use those personal DPS spells, I have to change targets yet again to target the mob, then re-target tank and/or anyone else who needs healing, all in addition to switching targets for each individual card buff. There is no other job in FFXIV which has to engage in so much target changing in order to "perform" properly. I don't mind this healer being super-busy compared to the others (it always has been) -- I just want it to matter more. I don't think that's an unreasonable viewpoint.

You can literally pop your ogcd heals in between your dps spells. WHM and SCH has to take a potency loss via Afflatus spells or Ruin II or delay their healing until a dot needs to be refreshed. And if you desperately have to heal someone. You can do the same thing with Benefic and Aspected Benefic, or pop Lightspeed to make your casts instant and weave off Benefic II. Targeting it a non-issue if you just take a moment to practice it. And like I said earlier, on controller you can hard target a mob and then press up or down on the control pad to soft target your cards and your heals onto your allies.

Originally Posted by MitsukiKimura

I do not play this game to only care about my damage parse. I play this game to have fun, in my honest opinion it\\'s people like that, that have literally destroyed my favorite class in the game "Fishing for balance". The Update to Minor arcana is a QoL for console players. There\\'s no joy in having your utility gutted and downgraded to all damage cards, that\\'s a joke. Buffing Combust and malefic, will not ever be in my mind a good substitute for the lack of passion towards this class.

You mean the rng locked utility that only gave the illusion of usefulness because of a cognitive bias towards the sparse moments that you actually had the right card for the right time? Let\\'s take a look now.

Bole: Now you have CU, Diurnal Intersection, andNocturnal and Nuetral Aspected spells. CU is even getting buffed next patch to where its effectively an AoE Bole in Nocturnal Sect. Ast has options to cover mitigation WITHOUT relying on luck.

Ewer: if you noticed, ast is not the only class that\\'s lost its external MP restoration. Ranged Physical lost their Refresh and Caster dps lost Mana Shift. The intent seems to be having MP management be a personal responsibility. While AST does need help in the MP department. Tying it to luck and randomness is not the way to do itm

Spire: TP\\'s gone. Even then TP restoration was rarely needed.

Could they do stuff like making Spear and Arrow give crit and haste again and like give Ewer and Spire something like +det or +DH? Sure they can. But unfortunately, those minmaxers that ruined the class for you are just going to figure out which card\\'s the best and it will go back to fishing for the best one.

Originally Posted by Side-Eye

I think your DPS figure is a bit inflated and assumes we're able to click every single thing as it pops, which we all know doesn't happen when you're dodging mechs and healing.

If anything, he's underestimating. Cards + three seal Div were worth over 1.4k for my first E4S clear. It would have been even higher if I hadn't missed three cards over the fight and if there were less deaths.

Having good party members helped there, but it still would have been a above 1k with players who are 50th percentile in Ex.



It's a lot of work to do well, but some of us like that. With the current system I need to track where four other players are in their rotations to ensure I buff their burst windows. I also need to be aware of mechanics that may reduce specific individuals' uptime.

Even so, in order to use those personal DPS spells, I have to change targets yet again to target the mob, then re-target tank and/or anyone else who needs healing, all in addition to switching targets for each individual card buff. There is no other job in FFXIV which has to engage in so much target changing in order to "perform" properly. I don't mind this healer being super-busy compared to the others (it always has been) -- I just want it to matter more. I don't think that's an unreasonable viewpoint.

I agree that it's a lot of button pushing. On keyboard I get away with F5-8, Play, Target of Target and it feels busy. Including changing targets, I can exceed 70 CPM during Sleeve Draw. It's even more on controller.

I think it would help a lot if cards were 15-20% and Play were changed to GCD instead of oGCD. Overall rdps would be similar after considering the lost Malefic, but they would feel more significant and worth the effort it takes to change targets. The only problem is that below a certain level of performance it would be a dps loss to apply them to party members.

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

You mean the rng locked utility that only gave the illusion of usefulness because of a cognitive bias towards the sparse moments that you actually had the right card for the right time? Let\\'s take a look now.

Bole: Now you have CU, Diurnal Intersection, andNocturnal and Nuetral Aspected spells. CU is even getting buffed next patch to where its effectively an AoE Bole in Nocturnal Sect. Ast has options to cover mitigation WITHOUT relying on luck.

Ewer: if you noticed, ast is not the only class that\\'s lost its external MP restoration. Ranged Physical lost their Refresh and Caster dps lost Mana Shift. The intent seems to be having MP management be a personal responsibility. While AST does need help in the MP department. Tying it to luck and randomness is not the way to do itm

Spire: TP\\'s gone. Even then TP restoration was rarely needed.

Could they do stuff like making Spear and Arrow give crit and haste again and like give Ewer and Spire something like +det or +DH? Sure they can. But unfortunately, those minmaxers that ruined the class for you are just going to figure out which card\\'s the best and it will go back to fishing for the best one.

You're still blind to the RNG you can still get with drawing cards, nothing but melee's or nothing but Range and ALSO trying for 3 seals which you'll never get 100% of the time.
Ewer Card would be nice to have for that MP Regen cause Astro needs something other than lucid dreaming. WHM and SCH both have other ways to get it, AST needs something too.
Spire can be replaced with a direct hit buff instead of TP, honestly don't think you even care to think outside the box of much anything.
Having all the cards named differently only to give the same effect is "Lazy". Also CU in Nocturnal STILL makes you stand perfectly still to use it which is even not worth the buff. Rather have it place able so I can use my cards or keep casting. People who would complain about "Fishing for balance" didn't appreciate anything about the class. MY Class should NOT have to Suffer just to Boost your Parse in Raiding with just "Balance Cards" Disgusting in all aspects.