Thread: Astro changes 5.1

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Like it or not there was always a "Best" card. Damage is the most important metric in optimized play so whatever card gave the most damage is seen by many to be the "Best" card.

Everything you said makes it self evident what is wrong with your argument.

There was always a "best" card. There will always be a "best" card. But only if you are a worshipper at the optimal > all altar. That is the sum total of your lack of understanding of our objection.

We don't give a flying fuck about optimized play. We want engaging play, we want enjoyable play, we want variety to not be bored out of our minds. Most play is NOT optimal. It is improvisation, it is using what works best at that particular instant and that is *gasp* NOT ALWAYS MORE DAMAGE.

Optimal. Does. Not. Matter. Non-janky does.

One of the most fun parts about the "less optimal" playstyle of 4.X AST was the fact that it was a gamble. In the world of XIV 95% of all content is scripted, with there being a set path to go, a set group of monsters, a set pattern of attacks from bosses and mechanics. Yes RNG Bole or Ewer were not optimal, but you played the hands you were dealt and when you got the right card for any given situation it felt so god damn rewarding. When you got a bust it felt bad, but so does losing a hand of poker. The highs were high and the lows were low, but it was engaging and fun and never the same thing twice. The randomness gave it charm and the variety gave it flavor.

It feels like I had cable with all the international channels, some were great, some were trash, but it was interesting to see what they all had to show me. Now all I have is local news stations that all tell different versions of the same story all day long. It's predictable and safe and boring.

There seems to be a divide in the AST fan base. Those who value numbers and optimization above all else and don't care about gameplay or enjoyment, and those who enjoy playing the job because it is fun and interesting and offers something different from the other cookie cutter jobs that are straight forward and don't think outside the box.

Originally Posted by Haxaan

One of the most fun parts about the "less optimal" playstyle of 4.X AST was the fact that it was a gamble. In the world of XIV 95% of all content is scripted, with there being a set path to go, a set group of monsters, a set pattern of attacks from bosses and mechanics. Yes RNG Bole or Ewer were not optimal, but you played the hands you were dealt and when you got the right card for any given situation it felt so god damn rewarding. When you got a bust it felt bad, but so does losing a hand of poker. The highs were high and the lows were low, but it was engaging and fun and never the same thing twice. The randomness gave it charm and the variety gave it flavor.

It feels like I had cable with all the international channels, some were great, some were trash, but it was interesting to see what they all had to show me. Now all I have is local news stations that all tell different versions of the same story all day long. It's predictable and safe and boring.

There seems to be a divide in the AST fan base. Those who value numbers and optimization above all else and don't care about gameplay or enjoyment, and those who enjoy playing the job because it is fun and interesting and offers something different from the other cookie cutter jobs that are straight forward and don't think outside the box.

This was precisely what I loved about AST.

Healing in most other MMOs is reactive. Bosses dish out a lot of damage, target random players, and so incoming damage has to be triaged, healers have to use mana efficiently, and react to players taking damage unexpectedly.

But because FF14's boss fights are so tightly scripted, once they are solved, the only things a healer reacts to are their party's mistakes. If you have a competent party that doesn't go swimming in every AoE circle, then healing is really boring. In stark contrast to tanking and DPSing, which get more engaging as your skill level increases and you learn more about how to optimize your rotations, healing gets less engaging as your skill level increases, because you have no decisions to make while healing, and your DPS rotation is braindead-easy and cannot be optimized.

AST's old card system mitigated some of that with its randomness. Yes, you probably always wanted Balance. When you didn't get Balance, that was where AST had to make real decisions, on the fly, reacting to unpredictable circumstances. Depending on the situation, sometimes you might Spread a Bole or Ewer just in case. Sure, Spire was useless, but that problem could have been more easily solved by fixing Spire, rather than gutting the entire card system.

Now, there are no decisions to make, and nothing to react to. Every card is Balance.

"We can accept this fate, or we can defy it, but we cannot deny it."

AST is about fate-bending, predicting and twisting events to one's advantage. Surfing RNG was the core concept. Playing the cards, delaying or changing them. The job quests go through the meaning of the cards, it's the entire spine of the class. Have they rewritten and re-recorded all the voice acting for those quests to reflect the new "Everything is a damage boost" philosophy?

Until they do, I will continue to take issue with those who feel this is the way AST is supposed to be.

Originally Posted by Boomsmash

"We can accept this fate, or we can defy it, but we cannot deny it."

AST is about fate-bending, predicting and twisting events to one's advantage. Surfing RNG was the core concept. Playing the cards, delaying or changing them. The job quests go through the meaning of the cards, it's the entire spine of the class. Have they rewritten and re-recorded all the voice acting for those quests to reflect the new "Everything is a damage boost" philosophy?

Until they do, I will continue to take issue with those who feel this is the way AST is supposed to be.

You actually bring up a great point that the old royal road system fit the idea of changing fate pretty well. Honestly Divination in comparison seems completely uninspiring. There is also a significant lack of time mechanics.

Someone once threw around the idea of giving AST the ability to have a stagger effect like the Brewmasters from WoW. So the damage, or fate, of the tank would be delayed and then there would be spells to remove or mitigate it, slow it down, etc.

Originally Posted by Billythepancake

I'll play devil's advocate a bit here,and while I don't agree with Brandedblade on anything to do with healers it seems, the people telling him to "get out" and to not play the class, or people essentially telling him his opinion are wrong don't realize the hypocrisy of what they're saying. He has as much right to express his enjoyment of the class as you do to not enjoying it. I think the current system needs to go, if I'm honest, only because constantly swapping targets is asking too much from anyone, and the only remedy to that is macros and I'll be damned if I want to rely on macros with their ridiculous delay, that being said, while they are minor, there are those that prefer the new card system over the old,and their opinions are just as valid.

In short,disagree with him, I know I do, but telling someone to get out or that their opinion is wrong is only making your argument look worse.

I'm not denying people's opinions about it but the moment you Mock the reason people enjoyed the class with "Optimal" Reasons or mock how I feel about the class that I fell in love with, you don't get any sympathy from me.

Nope! Even the references to Royal Road are still present.

Originally Posted by Billythepancake

snip

true but telling someone to take a different job in the same role cause he doesn't like the job concept is actually logical and valid to tell him especially when he says hates rng based mechanics which the job is known for.

he may be entitled to his opinion but in a debate ,you either prove your statement or refute others and provide examples and reasons behind each claims and that is simple as that, so claiming his opinion is wrong in an argument is understandable especially when you refute his opinion.

while i do appreciate your opinion billy, the fact is that he disrespected someone cause he cared too much for AST and to me that is shameful and wrong and the moment he did it he lost any value in his opinions as far as i concern.