Request for informations on Stats after the New HQ Crafting Mechanics

[Onizuka]

Greetings!

I know asking direct questions to community reps hardly ever grant a direct answer, but I'd like to try anyway, as Disciples of the Hand have always been my first Classes.

My main questions are:

Now that Quality's impact on synthesis changed so much, did stats affecting synthesis changed as well? For instance, if I equip a Leatherworker tool with a +20 VIT Materia, how will it work?
Will it increase the overall Quality gained per attempt or will it increase the odds of obtaining a HQ result when the percentage is not 100%?

Since I've no idea if there's a cap to the stats affecting crafting, I'd like to know if it's worth my Inventory space to have the stats increasing Rings and invest more Gils and time melding higher level Stat+ Materia.
As you know, it's not easy to find Stat+20 Materia or double/triple meld 2x Stat+18 ones, so I'd really like to know how stats work now.

Yesterday I crafted 2 Spinel Rings +1 and I'm not seeing any difference with this DEX +36 boost during my Goldsmith's or Weaver's crafting, nor if I use Manipulation (are those abilities even useful...?).
I've 250 VIT and I'm not noticing any difference with Armorer, Carpenter and Leatherworker, either (tests done using the VIT+ Set VS the Dated Gear Set) .


Also, almost 2 years have passed since crafting was seen for the first time in Eorzea and there's still no official, real explanation on the difference between Craftsmanship and Magic Craftsmanship. The only existing one is way too vague:

Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship. Control helps to reduce the occurrence of aetherial sparking

It's like saying: “The first one is good for this and the second one is good for that.”, yeah, but which is this and which is that?
Almost 2 years later and now that stats might play a more important role for us crafters, would it be possible to have finally an official, proper response on the difference between these 2 stats? Yeah, there're many rumors, but I won't list them here, for one reason: they're only rumors and in my loooong crafting adventures and countless tests I did on this matter, with 4+2 sets of equipments (Craftsmanship, Magic Craftsmanship, Control, Balanced, Onizuka (Aesthetic) and Subligar-only), I could never understand the difference between those first 2 stats (meaning that I could craft with only my Subligar on and not notice any real difference in synthesis difficulty).
And about Control, after patch 1.21 I noticed that not only element destabilizations, but also aetherial sparking happens very rarely (I got it only twice so far), so is Control still useful for that or does it have other purposes?

After all this time and with the inventory exploding, I think it's time to finally say something on these 2 stats, please...

------------------------------------------------

Extra Feedback for the dev team:

Now I'd like to leave my brief personal feedback on the new HQ mechanics, as requested by Yoshida-san himself here.

As usual, read further only if you're interested on the subject: skipping one line won't make you understand my real point and most likely misunderstand it.


In the past, I deeply analyzed the HQ mechanics system (in this Topic here there're all the links), how it was way too random and not rewarding for the efforts and time spent in gathering/buying HQ materials. I don't know if the reps forwarded my posts to the devs and Yoshida decided to change the system or if it was something already planned, the important thing is that now it changed.

Overall, I like the new system and prefer it to the previous one, particularly for materials! It was since last year that I stopped trying to synthesize HQ materials after too many bad experiences and time lost.
The new system has really many pros, like the percentage of HQ shown and the first 5 equipped abilities always listed in the crafting window, giving more control over the synthesis. Now I feel like my efforts for gathering HQ materials are more rewarded and I'm more satisfied when creating a HQ result.
I really like this new system and I'm glad my voice about changing the HQ mechanics was heard in the past.

However (you knew this was coming, Pete ), there're a couple of small cons I'd like to talk about.

• HQ materials no longer affect the starting Durability.
  
• Durability always decreases.

The second point, in particular, is quite strange. There's always a durability loss of 7-13 (I don't know if it goes beyond that, as I did tests only in the past days), even when the attempt succeeds and even when it's the “sparking perfect succeed”. In my opinion, at least for this last example (like when you use Perfection or when you “perfect succeed” with your skill/luck) the Durability loss should be lower than 7-8, and at least 3-4 like before.

Also, it doesn't make much sense that I lose 8 Durability when perfect succeeding and I lose always 8 Durability when failing bad (I'm talking about the “worst fail”, the one that graphically kind of explodes). I've many examples where I lose the same Durability in those 2 occasions (“perfect succeed” VS “worst fail”), although that can't be seen from the log, but I'll post one of the most recent screens anyway:



I've made almost 200 screenshots of testing since Friday and this is just one example of what I'm talking about, as I don't have the time to do an in-depth analysis on my blog like the last time, meaning you'll have to trust my adventurer's word.

Yeah, it's also said in the patch notes:

A set amount of durability is consumed regardless of whether or not the standard synthesis or careful synthesis succeeds.

But still it doesn't make much sense to me when I “perfect succeed” and “worst fail” an attempt (it doesn't always happen, but it does happen).

Therefore, I would like to request either of the following:

• Bring back the starting bonus in Durability granted by HQ materials used.
  
• Lower the loss of Durability when succeeding and “perfect succeeding” an attempt.

It's very time-consuming to gather all the HQ materials to craft items like Undyed Felt HQ, and botching a level 52-53 synthesis that utilizes them is not something I recommend... Having a better balance in the Durability loss might help a bit.
Of course, maybe the problem could be partially solved if finally the real behaviour of the stats is revealed... but in any case, as a craftsman of Eorzea, I still think there should be a better balance between “perfect succeed” and “worst fail”.

-------

Finally, always on the crafting subject, I'd like to say that the huge increase in EXP received is not something I really approve.
I know most of the adventurers are glad for this, so keep in mind that this is merely my opinion *raises shield*, but, like last month I said in another post (readable here), I think crafting should be something only for those dedicated adventurers who would like to put commitment in these Classes, to create their own equipment, with the growth (leveling up) process not so easy to accomplish.

Now, with 1000-2000 EXP per synthesis, when 2.0 hits everyone might be level 50 (or higher, if the cap will be raised) with all the Disciples of the Land , and if everyone has the chance to reach the max level so easily and create gear for oneself, consequently the market will halt even more.

As I illustrated in my last journal entry, it took me almost 16 months to reach level 50 with 7 Disciples of the Land, and I really enjoyed and felt my “Craftsman's Journey”.
It took me so much time only because I don't stay that much in Eorzea, I almost never did “craft grinding” (I mainly did Local Levequests) and never used Company Manuals; other adventurers already achieved max level a long time ago. Now there's also the Rested Bonus, so I think it won't be long before everyone will be able to create their own stuff and Retainers sent to Pearl Lane.

I just wanted to say my opinion on this, for how little it may count. I'm simply looking at the big picture.

The main purpose of this Topic is to request more informations on the stats affecting the new HQ mechanics, for the reasons I explained above, so thanks to the community reps if they could answer me (and in case also forward my feedback about Durability loss/EXP gain to the dev team).

Cloudio Onizuka, craftsman of Eorzea

[Raldo]

Assuming nothing changed about the way base stats work (and it may well have changed), adding to the appropriate base stat just increases your quality gain per action.

I'll throw my feedback into the ring too: I like the forced durability loss. I makes you think more when you're crafting.

[Lissandra]

I can see what you mean about the experience yields now (I have been maxed on all crafts well before this patch was released), but when they do raise the level cap, it might not seem as much if you need exponentially (okay, sounds kind of exaggerated, but yeah) more experience per level.

[Shaydes]

I too was wondering about this. Especially since the Physical Stat (STR,VIT,DEX,INT,MN, and PIE) crafting clothes are the only thing that are modified by +1, when the piece is HQ'd on a "Felt Gown of the ( fill in the blank ). Compared to a Non-Physical Stat HQ'd item which yields +2 more Crafting Stat. Which is the better choice?

Seeing as though it takes two synths to actually get an HQ Version of the Physical Stat gear, one might assume that the Physical Stat item is better. Yet I hesitate to consume all this material on a guess for each of my eight 50 crafting classes.

HELPS!

[Onizuka]

Heh, I would like to know that, too... Like I said, in 50x7 levels I never noticed a difference in the synthesis difficulty, Quality gain, or Durability lost if I had a higher Craftsmanship or a higher Magic Craftsmanship, and I could confirm this on multiple occasions when crafting half-naked.

So we can't know with certainty if we should focus on one stats rather than the other, or if prefer VIT+ and the other base stats boost... until the devs finally make a proper clarification.

Assuming nothing changed about the way base stats work (and it may well have changed), adding to the appropriate base stat just increases your quality gain per action.

About Quality, I did several tests after patch 1.21 and I'm not noticing any difference in increase of Quality gain. As usual, I can come to this conclusion when doing tests half-naked, so without any stat-boosting gear, and when there's no noticeable difference in the Quality gain.

Example:



Here I had 250 VIT (crafting Aldgoat Leather), but as you can see there's s huge gap in the Quality difference: the second attempt made me gain almost double (!) the Quality of the third, and they were all identical “perfect succeeds”.
Crafting with only my Subligar (VIT+ 212) also gave me similar boosts in Quality.
I wonder if those hard-earned Spinel Rings +1 are useful for Weaver and Goldsmith (and even with those, I'm not noticing any change)...

I really couldn't ever notice a difference.
The opposite of Ingenuity: with this I ability I always felt an improvement, not something that I can say with Masterpiece...

Like with Manipulation and company... but luckily at least the dev team acknowledged that certain abilities might non work properly, as it was one of the options of the third Players' Poll (I can say the same for the “Master of...” abilities of Disciples of the Land and the apparent uselessness of Perfection: with high or low Perfeption my HQ items gathered are always in the same average quantity...).

I'm just asking for some concrete informations on stats and those 2, Craftsmanship and Magic Craftsmanship, that after almost 2 years are still left in the Void.
I just want to know which stat I should focus on, if there's maybe a set cap when the increased parameters starts to properly affect Quality gain and if this is really working as intended.

I'll be waiting for an answer. C'mon, reps, give us crafters some clues!

[Raldo]

Well, if you're making Aldgoat Leather, you're probably at some kind of VIT cap for quality gains...

Crafstmanship + Magic Craftsmanship only affect success rates and progress gain percentages.

[Onizuka]

That was just an example to illustrate the difference in Quality boost, even if it was always a “perfect succeed” (almost doubled in one occasion).
I did testing with level 52-53 items, too, and with 250 VIT I'm not noticing any difference in Quality boost in comparison to 212 VIT. Same for Weaver and Goldsmith with DEX.

About Craftsmanship and Magic Craftsmanship... Are you saying the first influence success rates and the second progress gain percentages? Did you notice a difference on this?
Because I already read this theory in the past, among the many others, but like I said I've a Craftsmanship Set and Magic Craftsmanship Set, that I created last year to focus only on one of those stats as I tried to understand them, giving me the highest boost; however I never noticed an improvement/difference in success rates with my over 150 Craftsmanship, for instance (always in comparison to crafting half-naked).

I think an official word from the devs is needed, they're the only stats without a proper explanation, after all (and also Control might need an update, for the reasons I explained in the first post).

[Raldo]

/shrug I'm just going off of what this says. It's super old, so it could be wrong.

Among recipes in the game, there are those for which the rate of progress and chance of success are increased by higher Craftsmanship, and those for which they are determined by Magic Craftsmanship.

Some recipes are craft, some recipes are m.craft. You are correct to have two sets. As to what recipes are which, most recipes haven't been figured out yet.

This was the last response given regarding crafting stats. Interpret it how you wish.

Some tests have shown that DoL stats reach their cap rather quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised if the same applied to DoH.