Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

[Enla]

Or it may be because they realised that people were getting rushed along and missing out on the grand experience they intended it to be when they crafted it? That's certainly going to be the theme of the complaints they've received so far - because when the dungeon can be rushed, the complaints are going to come from the people who wanted to take it at story-pace. Now that it's been slowed to that pace, the complaints will come from people who wanted to rush it.

From what I recall from my friends who were here for that patch cycle it was a bit of both. At the time Castrum and Prae were the only end game dungeons available and within weeks people had already found all the exploits the developers erroneously put into them. It wasn't out of malice, it wasn't because people wanted to rush out the sprouts, but by virtue of the fact that there was /nothing else/ until 2.1 dropped. That in itself speaks to the poor design of the dungeons twofold. First that they can be exploited to such an immense extent, which is probably why so many of the subsequent 2.1-2.55 dungeons have 'road blocks' every other room, and the fact that their own lack of initial end game forced players to use those dungeons in tandem with people who just wanted to clear the story. It was a /mess/ from all the accounts I've been hearing and SE fully deserved being made to issue an apology for that.

Likewise from my own perspective, I've never heard anyone claim these dungeons are well made even as far back as 2.4. Their pacing is atrocious and while I had friends who allowed me to watch the cutscenes for Castrum after begged for their help in defeating the queue I quickly started skipping them during my own initial runs once I realized how poorly integrated they were. I know many people who felt similarly as well and still do to this day. The story wasn't grand enough /or/ well crafted enough to warrant the pacing issues that I could otherwise have forgiven in a solo instance, and going back to it now only further cements the belief I held back then. For better or for worse, SE made two terrible dungeons and then got a lot of flack for the both of them for a variety of reasons. Regardless of which side of the divide you stand on /now/, I don't think anyone can really say the subsequent changes they made to how they integrate story into mandatory dungeons isn't an improvement. Because I sure as hell enjoy not having this same issue repeated in Aetherochemical and Ala Mhigo respectively.

[Reynhart]

So I guess going right back, how do YOU know the sample of people wanting to view 30+ minutes of cutscenes is the majority?

I don't. But I'm not the one having to advocate what they should do, because they already did. And I'm pretty sure they have a good reason for that.

As for why they didn't do dungeons like that after, my guess, is because they didn't want to create a new roulette in HW for a specific dungeon (or two), and were afraid of people bailing out (before the penatly existed) if some dungeons were really longer that others.

[Vstarstruck]

I don't. But I'm not the one having to advocate what they should do, because they already did. And I'm pretty sure they have a good reason for that.

As for why they didn't do dungeons like that after, my guess, is because they didn't want to create a new roulette in HW for a specific dungeon (or two), and were afraid of people bailing out (before the penatly existed) if some dungeons were really longer that others.

You can't answer because you know it defeats your view.

[XiXiQ]

A roulette is basically meant to be speedran and to be done fast.

No, the roulettes were created to make it worthwhile for people to go back into older dungeons/content - to help the people still levelling, newcomers, etc. That's the tradeoff. That's why there is a reward for them.

[FallenArisen0990]

I said this in another thread and don't know if someone had a similar idea but...

The easiest solution to this problem is to remove the cinematic cut-scenes and make the "cut-scenes" run in real time. There's already a break in combat so you may as well have the NPCs say their lines via Text Bubble, perform actions in real time, and then go right into the next section. This will reduce the loading between cut-scenes and plus streamline the dungeon. The Dev Team needs to reconsider their stand on not updating or QoL older content because they don't have "time and resources" to do it.

[Vstarstruck]

I said this in another thread and don't know if someone had a similar idea but...

If they do not have time or money resources to address it properly, then they have no business making this blanket change of making the CS unskippable no matter if you enter unsync or using the DF for it

No, the roulettes were created to make it worthwhile for people to go back into older dungeons/content - to help the people still levelling, newcomers, etc. That's the tradeoff. That's why there is a reward for them.

guess what? they made the MSQ roulette not worthwhile

01-26-2018 07:22 PM #1 Louvain
*130 likes as of 3 am

Hey Reynhart, this thread is 56 pages long with 130 likes in 9 days, did any of those "fix the MSQ roulette, they abuse new players" ever get this much attention? Maybe it is a clue this change harms more then helps.

[Jxnibbles]

No, the roulettes were created to make it worthwhile for people to go back into older dungeons/content - to help the people still levelling, newcomers, etc. That's the tradeoff. That's why there is a reward for them.

This may be true however if they remove the roulettes.. Most players will farm one dungeon or piece of content which is the fastest for said bonuses.

If they add more roadblocks to slow players down, these said players will do the roulette once and again farm the fastest dungeon or content to get whatever they need done. They need players to fill these roulettes up so they give us incentives if they don't all the new players will hit roadblocks.

[Artillis]

I think it's fine as is, the cut scenes aren't bad and I think it's good for new adventurers. HOWEVER I would change it so that...

1. IF there is a new adventurer you get a tombstone bonus that isnt poetics and is instead the higher tier one. Maybe even make the exp bonus greater to encourage higher level players leveling classes to run it rather then avoid the roulette all together.

2. If there is no new adventurer let us skip cut scenes.

[Reynhart]

Hey Reynhart, this thread is 56 pages long with 130 likes in 9 days, did any of those "fix the MSQ roulette, they abuse new players" ever get this much attention? Maybe it is a clue this change harms more then helps.

Here's one where the the OP is at 100
Another one where the first reply agreeing to the OP is at 156

Both topics not posted just after a big change on that subject, which likely gives a lot of attention to recent threads, and that don't have half of their content complaining before ever knowing how much of an issue this could be (For example, when people still hoped they could skip the cutscenes in premade and were only complaining about the roulette, making all the concerns about alts moot back then, or having no real idea or how the reward would be increased)

Again, don't try to prove you're a vast majority...

[Ametrine]

I'm just sitting in the position of waiting it out. I just don't need poetics right now, so I have no reason to run it, but I do have RDM at level 50, so I might do some EXP recordings to test it out.

My deal is I would run these dungeons unsync with players so that they could see the scenes proper. I would always be the one volunteering to lead newbies along if they wanted to watch the CS.

So my attitude going into this roulette was that it'd take time.

It's just been rolled back to the same category as guildhests to me. Only worth it at a certain level.