Hunt Community vs Hunt Snipers

[Archwolf]

Then frankly, I agree with the ban. Your lack of remorse is showing, and that you'd show a flagrant disregard for the rules again......
You just gotta deal with it or campaign for change.

I certainly hope my lack of remorse is showing, that was kind of the intention. I don't feel I did anything wrong.

But you do make a very good point. I did break the rules and buck the system. Because the system is flawed and needs to be changed. Perhaps I should have tried to go about it in a more peaceful way. At the time, I was only trying to bring a stop to the selfish actions of one or two individuals. I wasn't trying to make a statement about change, but maybe I should have.

[Paladinleeds]

But you do make a very good point. I did break the rules and buck the system. Because the system is flawed and needs to be changed. Perhaps I should have tried to go about it in a more peaceful way. At the time, I was only trying to bring a stop to the selfish actions of one or two individuals. I wasn't trying to make a statement about change, but maybe I should have.

With regards to trying to get the change enacted, so long as you do it in ways that will stay within the rules (such as campaigning for change), then I'll support you and chime in too, with how I feel they could be improved. I think the hunts system needs revisions and needs improvements. That I won't deny. I just believe we should stick to the ways within the rules to try and get the change brought about, that's all. Thankfully Louisoix doesn't seem to have this problem, but I remember Odin used to have people who pulled quickly, which would rub people the wrong way.

We have been trying to get this acknowledged, see the two topics that were linked up there.

Everyone outside of Behemoth does not care at all though, since everyone just assumes we're lazy whiners. SE does not care either from the looks of it.

It's terrible that the people doing this have been getting away with it for months now. The hands of the rest of us are tied thanks to the "rules", and our cries for help are being ignored. It's no wonder people are getting more and more desperate. Hunts on Behemoth are a sad affair, and nobody, including the devs, care at all. Feels horrible.

I can certainly agree it's horrible for those just trying to get by. But, we can try and campaign for change, and while we do it, try to outsmart the group in ways that stay within the rules. So perhaps that means working together, keeping up to date with the clocks, etc. Outsmart and outmaneuvre. But don't resort to rulebreaking, that's all I'm saying.

[Archwolf]

Again, yes, it sucks.

Thank you for the response, I don't disagree with anything you said. It would be ok if this was just some players acting goofy or selfish for just a small amount of time. The party in question does this exclusively, as in uses all of his game time to make sure he is on top of all the S rank spawns. Honestly it's mystifying how they are online so much of the time, and don't have to leave for work or school or having a life outside this game. But their dedication is very real, and they are very very good at making sure no one else benefits from their hunts.

[Alien_Gamer]

Everyone outside of Behemoth does not care at all though, since everyone just assumes we're lazy whiners. SE does not care either from the looks of it.

I don't believe this is an accurate statement. Everyone seems to recognize that people who pull quickly are irritating, but most also realize that SE designed it this way so those players aren't actually breaking any rules. Unfortunately for Behemoth, your massive population compounds the issue; larger populations means more fast pulls, solo kills, and more people that don't get to make it. I'd be interested if the percentage of selfish vs community oriented hunters is any different on Behemoth compared to other worlds.

In regards to the rules governing hunts...I think most of the community would accept a revision of the rules but I don't know if a revision is possible. Lets say SE decided to change the rules, what do they change them to and how do they try to enforce it? There is no rule that could be programmed that can't be easily avoided, or worse, voided completely through happenstance. For example, there was once a proposal that a hunt is invulnerable for the first X minutes after spawn or for the first X minutes after being seen. So the S Rank spawns, a random botanist sees it, or someone who doesn't hunt sees it while they run past on chocobo, and kicks off the timer. Timer expires and then it gets seen by hunters...same result as things are now without the rule. Having an invuln buff that lasts until X minutes after the first attack just means things take longer for the legit hunters and doesn't actually stop the selfish people because if they don't call it out, the likelyhood of another hunter seeing it and calling it out is rather minimal.

Its not enough to say the rule has to change, it has to change to something effective and can be applied universally through programming. Thats a difficult proposition.

[Vnolan]

Unfortunately for Behemoth, your massive population compounds the issue; larger populations means more fast pulls, solo kills, and more people that don't get to make it. I'd be interested if the percentage of selfish vs community oriented hunters is any different on Behemoth compared to other worlds.

Apparently it's only one or two people.

At the time, I was only trying to bring a stop to the selfish actions of one or two individuals.

[Paladinleeds]

Its not enough to say the rule has to change, it has to change to something effective and can be applied universally through programming. Thats a difficult proposition.

I'm gonna attempt to put forward 2 suggestions that will turn the hunt system on its head, to open up some discussion of improvements.
1) Convert all B/A/S rank hunts to a special "Hunt Rush" trial area. You'd queue for it like any other duty, and it'd work a bit like Aquapolis, in that if ya wipe, you're thrown out and locked out from rewards for say, a day. Each successfully killed hunt will reward seals.
2) Keep the hunts as they are but instance them per party (that will have an opening window, a bit like ephem nodes, during which time anyone can party up and attempt to access it). You'll only get credit for your 1st kill of that hunt.

[Kazgrel]

Seems to me that OP bit hard on what amounts to trolling and got burned. No, it’s not nice of a couple people spawning S ranks just to kill them by themselves, firing off expletives their way and resetting a hunt multiple times isn’t the best way to counter their antics.

[Malzian]

Sorry to hear about the ban, Arch. However, while I do understand your intentions, being in your Linkshells and all, I can't say I agree with your method of trying to address the issue.

Hunts, by the nature of their implementation, were never meant to be an "everyone gets a chance" system. The core concept is that the people who take the time to find or spawn them have every right to pull and kill the hunt without ever telling another soul about it. Everything else that has been built around them by the community... the hunt guides, the timer sites, the linkshells... all of that is brought forth by the community in an attempt to tune the system to establish that supposed fair baseline. The problem is, it's just a meta structure that isn't itself inherent to the system.

Of course, can't really blame people for trying to do this. We do it all the time in normal life. Experiments have shown that if you set up a line for something that inherently has no line, most people will stand in that line just because it is there. That desire for social conformity drives us to stand there, it makes us feel bad if we were (even if rightly so) to try and cut that line. But there are people out there who just don't care. They will see the line, realize there is no reason for it and simply go around and get what everyone else has been waiting for patiently the whole time.

Does that mean they are wrong for having gone around the line? No, the system never included the line to begin with, so therefore going around it is not implicitly wrong. Does that mean that they should be admonished for it because the society has agreed that the line exists? Well, yes you can admonish them for it (politely), but that doesn't mean you're in the right just because you stood in the line. Should you curse at them and follow them around to make them feel harassed and threatened? No, not at all. Full stop.

You did the things you did for all the good intentions you had to make hunts on our server friendly, welcoming and fair. I applaud your desire to see the inclusion of everyone on getting their chance to enjoy the content as much as you do. However, doing the wrong things for the right reasons does not make those things any less wrong. The ban was handed down for your specific actions, not the intent behind them. You can't harass someone just because you don't agree with how they conduct themselves, especially when that conduct is within the rules. You can work to counteract what they are doing, but attacking them directly only serves to put you in the wrong and the GMs handed down the punishment that they are obligated to give according to the actions you took.

[NephthysVasudan]

something doesn't make sense here.
If someone quick pulls an S rank monster....generally to steal that monsters focus from the outside is damn near impossible if not very difficult to do.

Provoke wont work.

Which begs the question...whose fooling who here.

As to the overall subject...hunts are first come first serve...you can be a #### about it...or you can be polite about it...not much you can do about it overall...certainly doesn't give you a license to break the rules either. Regardless of your intention.

[Raldo]

Why, years after the content was released, do you still care about S-ranks in old zones? Surely you don't still need the seals/tomes. Killing them isn't fun or interesting. It boggles my mind that anyone finds hunts engaging; I consider them absolute garbage content. Are you just after that mount from that nigh-impossible achievement? Yuck. If so, getting banned is probably healthy for you.

Sometimes as I buzz through old ARR / HW zones, I spy an A rank up and kill it solo; it's like finding a dollar that someone dropped on the ground. I don't shout or notify anyone that I found it. Do people actually care about that? It never occurred to me.