Is it maybe time for a full infrastructure rebuild? (Re: Database and netcode issues)

[RichardButte]

I enjoy XIV, especially because it's the only themepark MMO I've ever seen that feels like they truly put some love and care into the storyline, characters, and setting.

But there's a worrisome trend when it comes to developer comments: technical issues tend to be the #1 reason for rejecting requests from the playerbase (even QoL suggestions that have been requested for years), citing the inadequate database as the reason these suggestions either cannot work or would be difficult to implement.

The most recent glamour log changes are sadly a good example of this. They're an improvement, but we can only store up to 200 items in the dresser, meaning this is only ever going to be a bandaid fix, especially as the game continues to expand and more and more items are added. There will still come a day when players will need to empty that dresser out to make room for new items, something they are NOT going to want to do.

This change only delays the inevitable.

Compare this to WoW's version of a glamour log, which immediately grants you access to the appearance of any item that was ever bound to your character (which encompasses hundreds and hundreds of items) and the log is shared across all characters.

There are also netcode issues in XIV that make combat less reliable with even slightly higher pings (even east coast vs. west coast players in the US notice a difference).

Take this thread for example: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...led-by-latency

Notice how not one of the replies at the time of my posting this even contested the fact that latency does indeed play a role in the game's combat mechanics? XIV is the only modern AAA MMO to have issues like these.

~6 years ago, we had two players in Brazil playing on our NA server that I raided with in WoW and they had no issues, despite one of them even being a healer.

Seeing as how XIV is the #2 sub MMO in the world right now, there's no reason WoW and even lesser known MMOs should have superior database servers and netcode.

If they wanted to take an expansion to rebuild all of this and get everything up to speed, making the game "future proof" for later expansions and all of their database needs, as well as refactoring the netcode to be more responsive and workable, I wouldn't begrudge them one bit for doing so.

Now, before the "SE Defense Force" chimes in with "YOU CAN WORK AROUND THESE ISSUES!!", please stop missing the point entirely.

There's no reason WoW should have better database servers than XIV, and when you say "You can work around it", you're acknowledging that there is indeed a problem to work around in the first place, one that modern AAA MMOs don't have and one that XIV certainly shouldn't have either.

So I'd say take the time to fix the issues you need to fix, devs, even if it means rebuilding most of the game. The game is more than prosperous enough to do so at this point and, after all, any "fixes" implemented without doing a full revamp are just going to be bandaids in the long run.

XIV is a wonderful game and absolutely worth putting this kind of love and care into.

PS. This is not going to be an OPTIONAL change for the game, FYI. If they're struggling this hard to make due with their current database servers, they're eventually going to find themselves up against a wall where they either cannot add new expansions or need to start deleting expansions from the game to make room for new ones.

PPS. They've also made a change like this once already, back before the game was profitable, where they were building 2.0 while keeping 1.0 running AND were adding content to it.

You can learn all about it in this awesome documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs0yQKI7Yw4

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I don't think this is feasible without going through 6 months + of no new content. They would basically have to halt content production and refocus everyone on porting to a new engine, new design, new everything. Game would die.

[RichardButte]

I don't think this is feasible without going through 6 months + of no new content. They would basically have to halt content production and refocus everyone on porting to a new engine, new design, new everything. Game would die.

I mean, no offense, buuuut....

If there's literally one game in the entire history of gaming that has proven it can survive a change like that...

And it's only going to get worse as they continue on the current infrastructure. A stitch in time saves nine, as they say.

It'll be less expensive in the long run to make these changes sooner rather than later, especially when every new system they add to the game between now and the inevitable change will need to be revamped to fit the new infrastructure as well.

[Alleo]

I mean, no offense, buuuut....

If there's literally one game in the entire history of gaming that has proven it can survive a change like that...

And it's only going to get worse as they continue on the current infrastructure. A stitch in time saves nine, as they say.

It'll be less expensive in the long run to make these changes sooner rather than later, especially when every new system they add to the game between now and the inevitable change will need to be revamped to fit the new infrastructure as well.

Sadly SE seems to favor the short time changes..like putting band aids on things. (Housing, glamour..) There will be a time where people have enough of this and might go and when that day comes they wont be able to change it fast enough..So yes I agree with you, they need to start working on this now. I am no expert on this field so maybe I am wrong with this, but shouldnt it be just fine if they work on this in smaller steps?

Anyway I also find it really sad how technical side of this game is used in so many arguments..and I really fear that nothing will ever change with that. SE will just milk it as long as possible with the lowest cost and drop it after that..

[Krotoan]

I am no expert on this field so maybe I am wrong with this, but shouldnt it be just fine if they work on this in smaller steps?


Anyway I also find it really sad how technical side of this game is used in so many arguments..and I really fear that nothing will ever change with that. SE will just milk it as long as possible with the lowest cost and drop it after that.

You're asking for the equivalent of rebuilding a house by pulling out the foundation and replacing it and expecting people to be able to live in it at the same time.

The technical side is the problem. Would you rather they lie? If you think they're lying about the technical side do you think they're just lazy? How many people who work on this game do you think look at it and go.. "eh.. it's good enough. Milk it for money and let it die when people get sick of the lies".

[Alleo]

You're asking for the equivalent of rebuilding a house by pulling out the foundation and replacing it and expecting people to be able to live in it at the same time.

The technical side is the problem. Would you rather they lie? If you think they're lying about the technical side do you think they're just lazy? How many people who work on this game do you think look at it and go.. "eh.. it's good enough. Milk it for money and let it die when people get sick of the lies".

The big descisions are probably not done by those that are programming and writing the codes. There is a high chance that they already explained to SE that it need changes but the one in charge for the budgets and stuff like that probably just dont want to put more money into this. So no I dont fault the ones working on this but SE as a whole..Its kinda obvious that they put a lot of the money FF14 earns into other project and Yoshida himself said that he needs more people and a higher budget but does not get it. So yes the ones that are deciding about this are the ones that probably just want to milk it with the lowest amount of costs.

[Vstarstruck]

I don't think this is feasible without going through 6 months + of no new content. They would basically have to halt content production and refocus everyone on porting to a new engine, new design, new everything. Game would die.

no it wouldn't, and this is going to be needed at some point since the wall seems to be getting bigger and bigger because of these issues.
Semi related:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-bigger-budget
might be another reason why they havn't yet

[Tridus]

I don't think this is feasible without going through 6 months + of no new content. They would basically have to halt content production and refocus everyone on porting to a new engine, new design, new everything. Game would die.

While you'd see less content, you wouldn't see no content. People working on art, music, level design, and even encounter design are usually not the same ones who work on server netcode and backend infrastructure. Whatever issue causes them to have to limit the glamour closet to 200 items instead of a WoW style "every item that's ever existed" one, it isn't going to be fixed by the same person that is animating the next tier of raid weapon drops.

Don't get me wrong: there's a cost to doing this kind of overhaul and everything else will have resources taken away because of it. But this is a big enough operation that it's not just 3 people working on it. Some of this stuff absolutely needs dealing with at some point, because the amount of stuff in the game isn't going down. I mean, my crafter & gatherer logs manage to track every single item I've made just fine. Do that, except for worn equipment. No need to overcomplicate it.

[Lord_Zlatan]

snip

I dont really know anything about data and coding, but I am pretty sure that a list that shows the stuff thats been made or worn has to be less intense on the system than having to actually carry the item, or have it stored on a retainer... I agree. It doesnt need to be overcomplicated at all

[Callinon]

I dont really know anything about data and coding, but I am pretty sure that a list that shows the stuff thats been made or worn has to be less intense on the system than having to actually carry the item, or have it stored on a retainer... I agree. It doesnt need to be overcomplicated at all

Not really. Items in FFXIV really have the following volatile (changable) values:
Spiritbond level
Condition
Dye

It gets a little trickier when we start talking about pink-quality items and relics that allow for dynamic stat assignments, but for the purposes of glamour none of that matters. In fact none of what I mentioned there matters either (maybe dye, but I'd handle that differently). You simply stipulate that an item must be at 100% condition or above before it can be relegated to glamour duty, and warn that spiritbond level will go to 0. Just like the armoire actually. All you're really storing is the item's numeric ID value OR a big boolean list tied to the item database. The actual space any of this takes up is pretty small.

This is basically how WoW's glamour system works too. It just unlocks the glamour state for any item you've collected. It doesn't matter what happens to the physical item after that, you've got it and so do all the other characters on your account.

The OP's post really hits the nail on the head. SE rushed the hell out of their database and netcoding design process when they were making 2.0. And if they don't spend some time getting their act together, the whole thing is just going to collapse in on itself someday.