SE, We need to talk about Leatherworker ...

[QT_Melon]

Not at all. The drop rate was horrible before the last update. 10 minutes I got far less than before on three separate days. I already stated it was harder to judge since I can't look into the code to see what it is.

However, I tried it recently since I had the time to check amd each time I got a better average.

Also I don't see the point in your behavior which is passive aggressive and condescending. This isn't a race, there isn't a prize to win whatever notion you have for an Internet argument.

I am just trying to look at all sides various people have brought up. I also brought some of my personal experience with the mob drops. So while I have certain advantages over others I was trying to be as fair about it as possible.

Looking at comments from another site similar findings were had and it looks like it was done around two or so weeks ago.

[Silverbane]

Not at all. The drop rate was horrible before the last update. 10 minutes I got far less than before on three separate days. I already stated it was harder to judge since I can't look into the code to see what it is.

Soooo, if you roll a die 12 times one day, and get a one three times, and then roll it the next day and get a one five times, you would conclude comeone had changed the die?

What nonsense. Statistically significant evidence that the drop rate changed would take more than your casual remembrances. It takes methodical recording of kills and drops, and lots of kills, to have any evidence worth presenting.

Stop pretending you understand statistics and how random processes work. You obviously don't, but I do, as demonstrated in this old thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ar-L60-recipes
That's data, not anecdote: you need to learn the difference.

And I don't see the point of you stubbornly sticking to a position that looks more and more false with each new data point. If you can't recognize your mistakes and own up to them, I think you have a dim future.

[QT_Melon]

I'm not exactly sure what the drama is about.

It was a worse drop rate before, had done it myself and others had the same problem. A patch comes, and notice an improvement. Not just with from my recent tries, but others stating the same as well. So you demonstrated a single sample size, and then others are using their own and collaborating? It's all the same in end whether you did it with your own sample size or a group did their own smaller tests. So...?

At least I'm not pretending to be some expert like you are with the authoritative arguments, your conclusion can be just as flawed as a group one with different results.

3 Days I spent the same amount of time as a retainer to get a mat, and the retainer won out. I didn't find that result acceptable, it's unrewarding in a game.

Again, what's your end game here?

[Silverbane]

I'm not exactly sure what the drama is about.

It was a worse drop rate before, had done it myself and others had the same problem. A patch comes, and notice an improvement. Not just with from my recent tries, but others stating the same as well.

The plural of "anecdote" is not data. Facts aren't arrived at by internet consensus. People bitch about their bad luck, and don't talk much about the good. Humans are notoriously bad at intuiting odds.

But you don't understand any of that, do you? You seem to have no applicable training in math, science, or psychology. Well, the minimum age for the game is 14, I believe, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I, on the other hand, have lots of training in math, science, engineering, psychology, and logical argument.
So it annoys me to see the all-too-common phenomena of people like you insisting on the internet that something is true or even probable, when they don't have even the barest amount of support for their statements.

What's the end game? You realize that your claims are all just stuff you made up, without any real support, and apologizing for all the trouble you stirred up in the forums with your baseless claims.

And maybe in another ten years, you'll be mature enough to do that. Maybe not.

You have a childish notion of fairness, too. I doubt you understand what the word means. It means that those who try hard do better. It means those that invest more money do better. It means those two statements are true for everyone, and that people who can't or don't want to invest a lot of time in the game, buy extra retainers, and so on will be eclipsed by those that do. That's 100% fair, and 100% in Square Enix's interest. They're here to make money. They won't give us updates unless they do.

And regarding pay-to-win, try raiding on a bargain-basement PC with integrated graphics over a 56Kbps modem and then try to argue that pay-to-win isn't inherent in multi-player online video games that have a real-time component. It is. My GTX1080 based dual GPU system and GSYNC 4K 34" monitor (oneof 5 monitors hooked to the system) give me an advantage over people running cheap PCs on tiny 21" 1080p monitors. That's life in the adult world, and it's how it should be. Those who do what it takes to make money gain a benefit by doing so: it's the main reason they bother to.

[Elamys]

Silverbane, I farmed hairs and manes before. The drop rate WAS terrible.

Also, gotta appreciate the person who complained about personal attacks sitting here...personally attacking everyone. I see no reason why I should treat you any better than the way you are treating others.

Also, I don't know if you noticed since you were apparently so eager to get in here and talk about your math, science, engineering, philosophy, and logic training (nobody cares, by the way), but this is a pretty old thread.

They have definitely upped the drop rate on halgai hair. I just picked up 21 in 10 minutes of farming. During early access, I couldn't even get that many in an hour.
Same for tiger hides. I'm getting about 50% drop rate, usually averaging 2 hides.
Yesterday, I had to farm some gag eggs. Couldn't believe how many skins I was getting. Ended up wth 34 in about half an hour.

Small sample size, i know, but yeah, farming these mats is now completely viable, unlike before.

This is good to hear. They definitely buffed the drop rate, if that's how many you are getting.

We noticed a change in the drop rate weeks ago.

[Silverbane]

Silverbane, I farmed hairs and manes before. The drop rate WAS terrible.

I'm not impressed by your apparent lack of knowledge of how science works.
Numbers or it's just BS. The plural of anecdote is not data.
Especially given the tendency we've seen of people to just make stuff up.

And the age of the thread is irrelevant: YOU were complaining (in a nearly incoherently structured sentence) about drop rates this morning:

Don't be ridiculous. The problem is that people putting in the effort of what they can get cannot even remotely get enough of the material to craft.

There is no other feature of the game like this.

And yet this afternoon:

We noticed a change in the drop rate weeks ago.

Those two statements of yours are contradictory.

[Elamys]

I mentioned that because people like you were coming in here complaining that it would be "dumbing down" crafting to make a drop rate of a common item better. Because it was being said that people who put in "minimal effort" should be met with "minimal reward" when for something like this, that simply wouldn't be the case. And it's not just my one personal anecdote against everyone else, you know?

But there's clearly no point in reasoning with you, with how dramatic you are about this. So take your internet argument medal and go home. Apparently, for someone so intelligent and well trained, you've got nothing better to do.

[Silverbane]

I mentioned that because people like you were coming in here complaining that it would be "dumbing down" crafting to make a drop rate of a common item better.

No one ever said that. I sure didn't. And even if I had, that's no excuse for posting something that you now claim to have known was false when you posted it.

You intentionally made an false statement about the drop rates this morning, and you've made a false statement about what people have said in the thread now, as can easily be verified with a simple text search of the thread. All to serve your agenda. Perhaps in an attempt to win points from the other the-game-is-too-hard-make-it-easier whiners? Who knows, or cares?

But here's the thing:
Why would anyone believe anything you write, about anything, when you show such a callous disregard for the truth?

But I can't take credit for the destruction of your credibility, you know. The credit all belongs to you.

For someone so intelligent and well trained, you've got nothing better to do.

Gotta do something while the macro is running on my craft. Can't just stare dumbly at the screen.

[Elamys]

No one ever said that. I sure didn't.

I wasn't going to reply again, but holy shit, don't accuse me of lying and then lie in the exact same post:

<Sigh> As if 4.0 didn't dumb down the game enough.

With that, I'm done. This has to be the most moronic exchange I have seen on these forums. Page upon page of drivel from some guy who just thinks he's better than everyone else.

[QT_Melon]

I mentioned that because people like you were coming in here complaining that it would be "dumbing down" crafting to make a drop rate of a common item better. Because it was being said that people who put in "minimal effort" should be met with "minimal reward" when for something like this, that simply wouldn't be the case. And it's not just my one personal anecdote against everyone else, you know?

But there's clearly no point in reasoning with you, with how dramatic you are about this. So take your internet argument medal and go home. Apparently, for someone so intelligent and well trained, you've got nothing better to do.

Sorry about that, I had forgotten that you had mentioned that earlier (about the drop rate). I just replied to your post thinking that it was someone else that stated the drop rate was still bad.