WHM getting progressively more unnecessary in content?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Threads like these will never stop in any MMORPG where there are limited role slots and more jobs / classes than role slots. It's important for both the developers and readers to be able to sift through the zealots of any job and find the important talking points of any discussion. Making hyperbolic statements regarding the discussion doesn't contribute anything meaningful either.

I don't want AST nerfed back to the 3.0 era but I also feel strongly about how unnecessary the AST buffs from 3.2 and onward felt too and either ASTs need to be tuned back down to be more balanced or WHMs need to be tuned up to match AST and SCH. Of course, again, as re-iterated throughout this thread by multiple posters, any balance changes / additions most likely won't come until 4.0.

I wouldn't say they were unnecessary, though people vastly underestimated them. What I'll never understand is why Balance got a buff. What Astro really needs is have its cards reworked to not essentially be "do I have Balance?" Regardless, I suspect that buff was to motivate people into playing Astro and things will change once Stormblood comes out. Unfortunately, content needs to require more healing if they intend on keeping WHM the de facto "main healer." That has been another issue with balancing the jobs. If you don't need raw healing, WHM just isn't going to benefit the raid to the extent Astro and Scholar will.

[Ghishlain]

I wouldn't say they were unnecessary, though people vastly underestimated them. What I'll never understand is why Balance got a buff. What Astro really needs is have its cards reworked to not essentially be "do I have Balance?" Regardless, I suspect that buff was to motivate people into playing Astro and things will change once Stormblood comes out. Unfortunately, content needs to require more healing if they intend on keeping WHM the de facto "main healer." That has been another issue with balancing the jobs. If you don't need raw healing, WHM just isn't going to benefit the raid to the extent Astro and Scholar will.

I agree with this fully an expecting a huge card rework myself in 4.0. I'm anticipating the removal of 20% Balance and also believe they'll normalize the AST healing spell costs too.

... man if that happens there's going to be a lot of salt on these forums for the first few weeks of 4.0. *Rubs temples* lol. . .

[bswpayton]

I dont think the raid population is large enough to base basically everything off of them. I hope they do things for whm because I love whm, and I havent started astro yet because that will be my last class to level. But these treads are like always only considering raid content when not even half the games population even raids I dont really understand that.

[Roll]

I dont think the raid population is large enough to base basically everything off of them. I hope they do things for whm because I love whm, and I havent started astro yet because that will be my last class to level. But these treads are like always only considering raid content when not even half the games population even raids I dont really understand that.

Kind of missing the point. It's more along the lines of job balancing and there is an imbalance.
I don't want to see AST nerfed since they had it rough since 3.0 and they are finally in a good spot, I want to see WHM get something that makes up for the lack of cards, shields, fairy, mp regen, etc since all 3 healers are able to heal effectively.

Just a few ideas I see floating around:

Utility:
Devotion (Ability that was in FFXI): Sacrifice 25% of HP to give to a party member in MP
Esuna trait that has a chance to become aoe.

Mitigation (since no supervirus from Scholar or Disable from Astrologian):
Shell: Reduce magic damage by X% for 10 seconds for party members in range

MP:
Increase the amount of MP recovered from Shroud of Saints and/or Assize.
Stone trait that lets Stone spells have a chance to make the next Stoneskin instant and cost no MP

I have hope that SE will do something for WHM in 4.0 as they have said they want to focus on making jobs have their own uniqueness. We'll just have to cross our fingers and see.

[bswpayton]

Kind of missing the point.

I totally agree but id also have to say skill level comes into play here as well, I have seen some horrible scholars, that think they can heal like whm in my own experience id much rather have a whm in a party than scholars only and this is suppose to be the op class. What I see happening is more scholars rely on their pets to do everything than anything, so I think your more average player can handle a whm more so because cure 2s potency is gona be the same regardless of skill. So yes maybe in raids with more mitigation needed astros are better, but in ur day to day content if you dont have the skill level to play scholar or astro Id much rather have a whm in my party. But like you said hopefully they will even things out esp if one of the new jobs happens to also be a healer.

[Cynfael]

I totally agree but id also have to say skill level comes into play here as well, I have seen some horrible scholars, that think they can heal like whm in my own experience id much rather have a whm in a party than scholars only and this is suppose to be the op class. What I see happening is more scholars rely on their pets to do everything than anything, so I think your more average player can handle a whm more so because cure 2s potency is gona be the same regardless of skill. So yes maybe in raids with more mitigation needed astros are better, but in ur day to day content if you dont have the skill level to play scholar or astro Id much rather have a whm in my party. But like you said hopefully they will even things out esp if one of the new jobs happens to also be a healer.

We're a little off-topic here, but I've always maintained the opposite viewpoint: if I'm going to be stuck with a terrible healer, I'll take the bad SCH over the bad WHM since at least the fairy is guaranteed to do something.

IMO WHM still requires a better sense of planning and strategy to play truly well as a healer. SCH and AST have higher skill ceilings with their more complex kits, but even an inexperienced SCH or AST can try to cover for poor planning with instant healing/shielding, while a WHM usually has fewer such options available at any given time and has longer CDs constraining their use.

[Roll]

Haha yeah definitely. Imagine a 4th healer and the amount of trouble balancing around that.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

There's two sides of debates. You give your opinion, and someone can either agree or disagree with your opinion. We agreed that WHm is a fine healer, but we're in a disagreement that it's fine to stay like this as long as they can keep people up.
There's more to every other healer than just healing, and there should be more to a WHM too, unless they buff the strength of their heals so much their heals are hands down the best, which it isn't atm.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I get the feeling these threads won't stop until AST has been nerfed back down to their 3.0

Don't be ridiculous. No one wants that.
AST was fine in 3.2, where their heals were strong and their buffs were decent but not broken.
Now the heals are still decent, but the buffs are insane. One needs to be knocked down a bit.

Remember when cards effects all lasted 15s? Perhaps it should go back to that. Or better yet 20s and you're able to extend it to 30s instead of 40s which is utterly ridiculous.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Again?

Is literally all you do on forums is make anti-white mage posts?

I'm starting to wonder if you're just a troll. Multiple threads on multiple different forums bashing white mage saying it needs buffs even though you are presented with countless arguments that prove the contrary.

I don't mean to be rude but geez, get over it.

Bashing WHM? I'm just calling out it's faults and such.
That may come off as hating on the job but I'm not at all.

And there's really nothing out there proving that WHM doesn't need help. It's generally agreed on that while it's a viable healer, it's also the weakest healer by far.