Monk Macros with Proper Rotation!

[Kitfox]

Did you happen to consider the human factor into your disagreement?

Yes, I consider the human factor. The argument is largely manual vs automatic. Do you want a system to handle things for you, or do you want to handle everything yourself? The thing is, with experience and practice the error margin of input mistakes becomes incredibly small. A person might still make mistakes in their judgement and foresight, timing and mechanics, but action input mistakes on high levels of play are very rare. That's because humans have in-build automation systems in them: muscle memory and scripting (psychology term) of repeated actions. Instead of transfering that muscle memory to a macro, you can keep it in your body, while retaining the ability to be flexible with your input. You brain is way more flexible than the macro system in game.

You also have to consider that the macro system is inherently flawed vs manual input. So, when both sides play perfectly, manual input will always pull ahead. You'll have to consider the chances of input mistakes of both sides, but manual side always has to do more mistakes for the macro side to catch up. You also have to consider the nature of the mistakes both are subjected to. Not all mistakes are related to one's input method. Even if you argue that handling a broader input spectrum would take away from your mental capacity to avoid all kinds of mistakes, you have to remember that muscle memory and practice can take away essentially all overhead related to action input, leaving you with the same capacity to process the rest of the fight.

I'm arguing for the end state of practice. You will end up with essentially the same error margin on both input systems after practising a lot, the difference is that one input system is more versatile and effective than the other one. KISS is a common saying in a lot of fields, not just the army. It's most suitable for situations where people need to pick up new skills very quickly and react under unexpected stressful scenarios. FFXIV gameplay is neither of those. All encouters in the game are very scripted (except PotD), you can practice as much as you want, and do it safely from your home. It's true that you can reach your "complete state" more quickly with a simple macro system, but with ample time and given the fact that you can practice manual input in more scenarios (all classes), you will reach the same state of performance inevitably without it, possibly faster if you also play other classes besides MNK.

The question is, when you're at your best after practising, do you want to be using a flawed system (even if it was only 2%) or the most efficient one? Both will eventually end up with similar error margin for input mistakes.

[Caitlyn]

snip

Both Monk guides are outdated (ffxivinfo for example is listing a weapon called "Prototype Midan Metal Knuckles", which doesnt exist in the game) and doesnt include the way to play your Monk at Level 60 (which is quite different). You should better check some forum guides like this.

Sure, some macros are nice to have (like replacing skills on my WAR depending on his current stance). But please dont even try to bring new players to heavily use macros instead of learning to play the class right. Macros like this arent helpfull in any situation. But speaking of that, I want to know, when does your macro become helpfull. In which situation exactly?

1. What? I would love you to proof that the best player in the game especially a Monk will never make a mistake in a 15 minute fight every time 100%! I really would love data backing up that claim! We are all human and we all make mistake as you stated about my macros.

Even when he does 5-10 mistakes (he must be drunk then), you macros will cause even more.

2. The Damage may be low but math is math. If you would like to disprove my evidence, I kindly ask you to hop onto your Monk.....apply my macro using a source for data as you saw I did with my video and show contrary evidence. Until then Caitlynn, with all due respect....I have data to back up my information as everyone can clearly see, if you would like to make claims to the contrary, please do so as I welcome it as a chance to improve my information. Until then, everything else is conjecture and theory without prove.

I will do, when I find time to do so. But when I do, doing side-by-side, what if I can prove you, that the actual damage loss is higher than 2% or 5%?

[TheRealMadruck]

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/McNw7...pe=damage-done on Faust z

Thank you for the data Axxion!

[TheRealMadruck]

Both Monk guides are outdated (ffxivinfo for example is listing a weapon called "Prototype Midan Metal Knuckles", which doesnt exist in the game) and doesnt include the way to play your Monk at Level 60 (which is quite different). You should better check some forum guides like this.

Sure, some macros are nice to have (like replacing skills on my WAR depending on his current stance). But please dont even try to bring new players to heavily use macros instead of learning to play the class right. Macros like this arent helpfull in any situation. But speaking of that, I want to know, when does your macro become helpfull. In which situation exactly?

First, never once did I ever say or reference to New players watching my video that this is the only way to play Monk, so lets get that clear now. Second, there are plenty of occasions! Fate Farms, Soloing older content, Chocobo Leveling, Low Level Dungeons that are so easy(I.E. Sastasha), Palace of the Dead....do I really have to name off every piece of content in game that is not Endgame?

Lastly, to your reference of the links I sent...the link you posted is also out of date which most updates are from patch 3.2 with the other pages talking about scattered data. Second, playing any job in FF14 can not be taught, watched or seen to truly be good at it as in any MMO or life in general. But it does give others a start to learn from and form their own methods of playing. So the data maybe old as you claim, but it still has alot of validity to it as there is not 100% guide to any class or Job in any MMO ever made!

[TheRealMadruck]

SNIP

Show me your proof, thats all I have to say. And even if like you claim that it is 5%, lets says its 15%, how does it negate the fact that not once did I say this was the only way to play Monk or you must do my macros for Endgame? And if you say that my macros will do more harm than a Monk who is drunk, please provide yet again proof on that not words....I sincerely would like to see that comparison! As for you actually providing data and video evidence all of FF14 can see, I look forward to it and if you proof data contrary to my data especially doing not just endgame but any form of content using macros(that includes solo, fate farming etc....and how it is ineffective, I will correct my stance. Until then.....

[Caitlyn]

Second, there are plenty of occasions! Fate Farms, Soloing older content, Chocobo Leveling, Low Level Dungeons that are so easy(I.E. Sastasha), Palace of the Dead....do I really have to name off every piece of content in game that is not Endgame?

You were talking about "situations", not content. Even for Sastasha, you just need a handfull skills. It makes no difference here. Just saying.

Lastly, to your reference of the links I sent...the link you posted is also out of date which most updates are from patch 3.2 with the other pages talking about scattered data.

You re wrong. If you look closer, the second post also contains content (Monk video guide for Sophia Ex) from the current patch. The Monk doesnt changed very much in the previous patches, so its more up-to-date than your guides.

Show me your proof, thats all I have to say. And even if like you claim that it is 5%, lets says its 15%, how does it negate the fact that not once did I say this was the only way to play Monk or you must do my macros for Endgame? And if you say that my macros will do more harm than a Monk who is drunk, please provide yet again proof on that not words....I sincerely would like to see that comparison! As for you actually providing data and video evidence all of FF14 can see, I look forward to it and if you proof data contrary to my data especially doing not just endgame but any form of content using macros(that includes solo, fate farming etc....and how it is ineffective, I will correct my stance. Until then.....

Until then, you wont accept other opinions. I get that. Maybe I will try your macro, maybe I will not. Depends on. But actually, its not my job to prove other peoples opinion to be true or false. Otherwise I will end up sitting around and approve/disapprove every theory which come up here. I just want to say, that you should minimize your usage of macros to a bare minimum. Otherwise, your playstyle will tend to be very ineffective (in my opinion) and giving control to something which COULD cause more problems than anything else. Thats MY opinion based on MY experience. Thanks for reading.

[Taika]

Show me your proof, thats all I have to say. And even if like you claim that it is 5%, lets says its 15%, how does it negate the fact that not once did I say this was the only way to play Monk or you must do my macros for Endgame?

The issue is you claimed this is a competitive way to play Monk, and it simply isn't because there's no way to pull competitive numbers in any content in this game using macros. Competitive in the context of this game means at least comparable to what above average players are able to do. And we know the averages because they are widely posted online for everyone to see.

[SmallHobbit]

And even if like you claim that it is 5%, lets says its 15%...

i want lie but the diffrence is more like 50-80% more dps without using yours macros :3
when i will be home tonight i will try to find a video which shows you the true diffrence between.

regards hobbit

[TheRealMadruck]

SNIP

Thanks to Axxion earlier in this post, https://www.fflogs.com/reports/McNw7...pe=damage-done If you clearly see that data it shows that the Monk in that party had a 90% uptime in dps. That could be for several reasons....movement, boss being immune to damage, etc.....but I promise you that a portion of that was human error. As you stated about muscle memory and other scenarios, it still does not negate the fact that even IRL Blackbelts in Martial Arts that have attained the highest degrees attainable(there is not a technical cap on Degrees of some Martial Arts btw)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlR_3X9JAuY do not make mistakes....so if thats possible, anyone...even the most proficient Monk in FF14 can have a bad day.

Lastly, watch both of my videos, link me a section in them were I stated that the macros I made were for endgame and they were the only ways to play a Monk in FF14.....I didnt. The data I provided was a guide, a method to correctly do Macros if players choose to....that is all. I admit Macros are a dps loss for Raids and Endgame, it still does not negate the fact that Macros can be extremely useful in many facets of FF14 and also that assuming all players who do Macro will never learn to play Monk properly without Macros is kinda presumptuous wouldn't you say?

[TheRealMadruck]

The issue is you claimed this is a competitive way to play Monk, and it simply isn't because there's no way to pull competitive numbers in any content in this game using macros. Competitive in the context of this game means at least comparable to what above average players are able to do. And we know the averages because they are widely posted online for everyone to see.

Again, it is competitive to all forms of content in FF14....why do you automatically assume that I was only speaking about Endgame? Please watch my 2nd video and see what I said to correlate this misconception. Macros are extremely useful on so many different occasions in FF14, but not once did I say it was sole for endgame and I apologize if the first video gave you that impression!