Dismantle the Holy Trinity

[Ahrniel]

Stuff

Then do the Holy Trinity right.
If you can't do it right, do something else, if you can't do something else, shut down the game.

[Fluffernuff]

Then do the Holy Trinity right.
If you can't do it right, do something else, if you can't do something else, shut down the game.

So this... ISN'T a discussion anymore. your way or the highway. good to know

[Ahrniel]

So this... ISN'T a discussion anymore. your way or the highway. good to know

You guys are messed up.
My way or highway?
You said the Trinity is the core of the game, I said do it right or do something else, something else being the way I proposed.
My way isn't the right way to do the trinity, because it removes the trinity!

Whoa, you... Oh whoa, why did I even bother. Like I can talk with reason here.

[Fluffernuff]

You guys are messed up.
My way or highway?
You said the Trinity is the core of the game, I said do it right or do something else, something else being the way I proposed.
My way isn't the right way to do the trinity, because it removes the trinity!

Whoa, you... Oh whoa, why did I even bother. Like I can talk with reason here.

And so the ad hominem starts. An I've been relatively tame in my responses to you. Here's the thing... my first response- outlining my reasoning as to why I could not agree with your assessment. I thought that was fair. I didn't even attack you. sure, I bolded some words people like to conveniently gloss over, but that is par for the course. You also specifically said "or shut it down".

However now I'm more concerned you calling us "messed up" and you can somehow "talk with reason" when your reaction to my quite tame response was;

Then do the Holy Trinity right.
If you can't do it right, do something else, if you can't do something else, shut down the game.

Now, I interpret as "The game did it wrong, and since it's wrong, I have an idea. If my idea can't work, it needs to be shut down."
Why do I interpret it this way? because context. such an extreme and kneejerk response to say a general statement? I don't buy it. The only reason a response such as that would be even entertained would be in the current context that you mean FF14 in conjunction with your stance it needs fixing.

I never once shut down the discussion. Calling us "messed up" and "unreasonable", however, does. So my simple response to the fact you seem to lash out at those who disagree was that you don't want a discussion. It's really not a discussion anymore.

In essence- you feel your way is the right way, we're all wrong, and need to deal. or better yet, it needs to be scrapped. At the very least you have responded in a way to multiple people that "they just don't understand". Based on... you and these nameless supporters who have yet to be named or step forward.

So yes, I felt, and still do feel, that "your way or the highway" is more than adequate to describe the behavior I've received from you thus far.

[Ahrniel]

Yes I did say "or shut down" after two choices. Fix the game with the holy trinity, scrap the holy trinity, or shut down.

You just told me. The Holy Trinity is in the core. If they don't fix the Holy Trinity, they don't fix the game, if they don't fix the game, why even bother keeping it on?
But of course that is all a hyperbole. Like the devs would even allow to not fix things. Stormblood is coming for a reason, and they plan on changing things. And they seem to want to keep the Trinity, even going to the extent of, perhaps, enhancing them, by creating Cross-Role skills.

Good! That means they will try to FIX the Holy Trinity, but we gotta see what is gonna happen. It could not work, that is why I suggested something else just in case, I thought It was interesting and that perhaps I nailed some good points. God I was wrong.

To think this was a mine field of salty proportions I could never predict.

I never said this game could die for not doing as I suggested, I said it could die for not fixing anything. You and Ashelia went full scarecrow on that and kept pouding on that strawman, and you are still doing it. So if you are still doing after all I've explained, then yes, you are messed up and unreasonable.

[dejiko_san]

Yes I did say "or shut down" after two choices. Fix the game with the holy trinity, scrap the holy trinity, or shut down.

You just told me. The Holy Trinity is in the core. If they don't fix the Holy Trinity, they don't fix the game, if they don't fix the game, why even bother keeping it on?

The fact that you want to shut down a whole game just because it doesn't fit YOUR mold is the reason people are calling you out.

"If they don't fix the Holy Trinity, they don't fix the game, if they don't fix the game, why even bother keeping it on?"

Sure they can improve things but the game's state is nowhere as dire as you put it. Once again, people are simply saying they don't agree with you. It's not a personal attack on you, simply your suggestion which many do not agree with.

[Ahrniel]

The fact that you want to shut down a whole game just because it doesn't fit YOUR mold is the reason people are calling you out.

I see, you want some idea of where I'm coming from?

Here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...arty-instances
Here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...re-not-healers
Here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ty-as-a-healer
Here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ew-perspective.

I saw problems with the game. Pointed them in the OP and suggested some solutions, then I wanted some feedback. People just rebutted with:

"Sounds like you just want to play an entirely different game."
"this is heresy at the highest level"
"why SE would want to spend millions of dollars to rebuild the game, and why millions of players would want to get used to a new style of playing, other than because you, personally, don't like the design."
"Please tell me ur trolling"
"Sorry, but I gotta agree with others, this is heresy."
"Under your proposed solution the exact same thing would happen just without the labels."

Then we have this proper response here:

What SE designs and how the playerbase uses it are NOT the same.
SE could add a new high potency heal skill to all healers and the PLAYERS would be finding ways to use that heal to push higher DPS numbers. Do you honestly believe that everything SE designs around is everyone being a DPS and tanking and healing doesn't exist, or rather, is unnecessary?
A9-12S disagrees with you. Sophia EX disagrees with you. even EX roulette disagrees with you. SE has been actively addressing the DPS "problem" for a while since Gordias kinda fell on it's face with the DPS checks. patch after patch, they keep moving away from DPS and more towards mechanics. How in the hell do you get the idea SE is designing for DPS? because horizontal progression inflates numbers?

Even without that, the Trinity is the FOUNDATION of a game, what it's built on. A battle system and the roles within it are NOT. To change the trinity would be creating an entirely different game from the ground up. That's not an "expansion". that's not "an update". What you propose is actually on a LARGER scale than what happened to 1.0 with ARR.
This change wouldn't be Stromblood, it would be FFXIV-2. and we ALL know how well SE handles their "-2's"

I didn't agree that anything was being solved, and that didn't seem to be anything to bother with, so I answered with this:

Then do the Holy Trinity right.
If you can't do it right, do something else, if you can't do something else, shut down the game.

Because I still think it is wrong. Instead of pointing out: "No, the Trinity is still fine, because of reasons!"

You focused on shut down the game, and you tied a wrong conditional to it, the one that "If it wasn't done my way, it should be shut down".

This is a lie, a strawman, with which people continued to use to throw stones at the, as previously pointed, "Heretic".

And here we are. Nothing productive done, just a bunch of drama. Is this all? Are you entertained? Did you have your daily dose of salt and drama? Is this all you needed to bash me for? Is this all you require to gank on me, strawman and lie? Spare me your misery.

All you had to do is tell me why the Trinity is just fine as it is, but no, I mean, easy target appeared right, lets just destroy someone in the forums today.
Thank you very much for all your responses, some were good, some were... well, and worry not, I will not take this as what this community actually is, I'm no beginner, I've had some good times in these forums. But I'm just tired of this thread. Such a waste. You can go now, the show is over, I'm done with ya.

[Warghoul570]

Then do the Holy Trinity right.
If you can't do it right, do something else, if you can't do something else, shut down the game.

Oh yeah let's shut down the entire game on millions of people because one self righteousness elitist doesn' like the way it works. Yeah that will fix everything