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  1. #1
    Player
    Masamune1004's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    Location
    Yes
    Posts
    1,438
    Character
    Isidula Granviir
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Radav View Post
    The idea that exploration is greater in open world vs. an instance doesn't make much sense to me. Once I've been in shopshae a few times how is it any different then me running darkhold a few times. In both cases once I've figured out where to go and what to do the mystical feeling of exploration is gone.
    It's not about finding out what to do, It's about exploring every inch of the cave, even if it has no point. That's why people are getting all of the aetherial gates, It serves no purpose for getting equipment or anything, it's just fun to get there and avoid the aggro mobs along the way. I thought many people were into this, but i guess the majority just thinks about stats and equips and shuns those who don't. I'd even be willing to just keep the open dungeons we have now, even if we didn't get anymore, and if the devs can't even give me that, I have to say they are incredibly lazy and I don't think I'll be playing anymore, not that anyone cares.
    (6)

  2. #2
    Player
    Kiote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,774
    Character
    Kiote Corissimo
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Rok may have been a little overzealous in that last post, but his heart is in the right place.

    There is a Niche audience that loves games that are 100% instanced. But that is far from the Majority. If that's the game you want then please feel free to find one, but we love this game. We will not roll over and simply allow something this detrimental happen.

    The Loss of Open World dungeons is the Loss of freedom to explore. To enjoy this world at your own pace. No matter how easy they make it to get into an Instance it will never replace the experience of happening across a new zone, wandering inside and feeling that slow pull as you repeatedly wonder whats around the next corner. How far can you go in? What's at the other end? Why is this place here?

    The simple fact is the more instances they add and the easier they make it to get in, the faster and farther we move away from a world of exploration. Every Non-Instanced Dungeon they convert on the way to 2.0 is just one step closer we get to an Ul'Dah where everyone is AFK queuing for their next raid..

    (For the Record, "Public Instances" are basically the same thing. I do not mean to Imply that these Dungeons have to be seamless with the Zone they are inside of. As long as anyone can enter without level and group size requirements and time limits. I would, however, prefer they were zones.)
    (6)
    Last edited by Kiote; 11-17-2011 at 12:56 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Sephrick's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,900
    Character
    Sephrick Markarius
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiote View Post
    Rok may have been a little overzealous in that last post, but his heart is in the right place.

    There is a Niche audience that loves games that are 100% instanced. But that is far from the Majority. If that's the game you want then please feel free to find one, but we love this game. We will not roll over and simply allow something this detrimental happen.

    The Loss of Open World dungeons is the Loss of freedom to explore. To enjoy this world at your own pace. No matter how easy they make it to get into an Instance it will never replace the experience of happening across a new zone, wandering inside and feeling that slow pull as you repeatedly wonder whats around the next corner. How far can you go in? What's at the other end? Why is this place here?

    The simple fact is the more instances they add and the easier they make it to get in, the faster and farther we move away from a world of exploration. Every Non-Instanced Dungeon they convert on the way to 2.0 is just one step closer we get to an Ul'Dah where everyone is AFK queuing for their next raid..

    (For the Record, "Public Instances" are basically the same thing. I do not mean to Imply that these Dungeons have to be seamless with the Zone they are inside of. As long as anyone can enter without level and group size requirements and time limits. I would, however, prefer they were zones.)
    I have yet to see any anti-instance supporter explain to me how "standing in town afk queuing" is any different than "standing in town afk while your party leader shouts."

    If you have such a problem with queuing in a party finder, then don't use it. XI had an auto-group feature but that did no harm because players chose not to use it.

    No one is stopping you from creating a linkshell of like-minded players with which to go and explore the world.

    But how long will "exploration" retain players? It's not like there won't be fun and interesting things to ride out and see. The whole point of the map redesign is to make each zone look unique and give them landmarks. But how much is enough to make people happy? Exploration is great fun, but once you've seen something the first time there's little reason to go back without some reward involved.

    After all, MMOs are all about working with others to achieve some goal. I know my linkshell and I will explore the crap out of those inctanses while achieving whatever goal Os attainable from them.

    This whole argument just seems silly. Especially when people say "you instanced people need to gtfo" when Yoshida himself said this was the concept for 2.0. Because they'd rather have the ability to find a teammate from anywhere than just your own world.

    If the biggest issue is not being able to find a player, for better or for worse, then put energy into raising awareness for the need for cross-world invites and party finder black lists. It's that simple.

    The only thing non-instanced dungeons add is that it's first come, first server. So you can explore all around as you watch some other party doing the content you set out to do. I'd rather SE be able to design unique and challenging content that tests the limits of my eight-person team than the open world flagfest that was XI.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player

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    Ul'dah
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    Well said Masamune! I loved going and getting the aetherial gates at lower levels. It was a fun time, trying to avoid everything and seeing new things. Love exploring! Don't take it away!~
    (3)

  5. #5
    Player
    Lucifer's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    413
    Character
    Lucifer Morningstar
    World
    Ultima
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 3
    I don't think any of you have ever played Everquest/EQOA (especially not that fool Jinko). People used to schedule server raids on a weekly basis.
    The feeling you get when hundreds of players are running across the beach, killing everything in their path, trying to reach Vox. Community was very big in those days. People were always willing to interact with each other because it was something new in the gaming industry.

    MMO's are doing exactly what Guild Wars has been doing. People will venture outside city walls just to solo and delude themselves in to thinking they are having fun.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Lucifer's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    413
    Character
    Lucifer Morningstar
    World
    Ultima
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 3
    But how long will "exploration" retain players? It's not like there won't be fun and interesting things to ride out and see. The whole point of the map redesign is to make each zone look unique and give them landmarks. But how much is enough to make people happy? Exploration is great fun, but once you've seen something the first time there's little reason to go back without some reward involved.
    This is why you implement a system where you force people to venture to these areas. It is that simple. If exploration is such a short-lived experience, why not just remove all areas completely? Make one big city and players will simply queue up for the dungeon they need to visit. This is what you're defending, am I wrong?
    You are defending instanced-dungeons by pointing out negative features found in FFXI. Finding groups is up to the community. The medium they utilize is up to the developers.
    (3)

  7. #7
    Player
    Sephrick's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,900
    Character
    Sephrick Markarius
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucifer View Post
    This is why you implement a system where you force people to venture to these areas. It is that simple. If exploration is such a short-lived experience, why not just remove all areas completely? Make one big city and players will simply queue up for the dungeon they need to visit. This is what you're defending, am I wrong?
    You are defending instanced-dungeons by pointing out negative features found in FFXI. Finding groups is up to the community. The medium they utilize is up to the developers.
    If there's one thing I despise more when discussing video games other than the phrase "But in the real world...", it's slippery slope arguments.

    "If exploration is such a short-lived experience, why not just remove all areas completely? Make one big city and players will simply queue up for the dungeon they need to visit."

    This can go on and on and on. Why not just remove the city and have people log on in a dungeon? Why not just get rid of the dungeon and have people log in to a boss battle? Why not skip the boss battle and have the people pay for a picture of a character they design holding the loot?

    SE has said dungeons will be instanced, not the entire world. There still will be things like strongholds and roaming NMs.

    The whole point of instancing dungeons is to have a controlled environment for more challenging game design. XI's biggest problem was that every single end game event was just a matter of throwing bodies at a problem.

    The medium they utilize is up to the developers.
    This is exactly the whole point. Instances give SE more control, and thus, the ability to make things more challenging. That way, dungeons can still be just as expansive, and they can make the whole experience much more specific and unique because there won't be anyone to step on your toes.

    I'm not arguing to instance the game or to detract from the open world. Just a happy balance.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player

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    Ul'dah
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    We are not being anti-instance, we just want more open world content with the instances
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player
    Raistlin's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Palanthas
    Posts
    481
    Character
    Raistlin Majere
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 90
    i posted here a suggestion for a non-instanced dungeon ^^!
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player

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    Mar 2011
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    Ul'dah
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    Yep, I liked your post, when it first came out ^.^
    (1)

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