Petition to keep non-instanced dungeons.

[Sephrick]

Rok may have been a little overzealous in that last post, but his heart is in the right place.

There is a Niche audience that loves games that are 100% instanced. But that is far from the Majority. If that's the game you want then please feel free to find one, but we love this game. We will not roll over and simply allow something this detrimental happen.

The Loss of Open World dungeons is the Loss of freedom to explore. To enjoy this world at your own pace. No matter how easy they make it to get into an Instance it will never replace the experience of happening across a new zone, wandering inside and feeling that slow pull as you repeatedly wonder whats around the next corner. How far can you go in? What's at the other end? Why is this place here?

The simple fact is the more instances they add and the easier they make it to get in, the faster and farther we move away from a world of exploration. Every Non-Instanced Dungeon they convert on the way to 2.0 is just one step closer we get to an Ul'Dah where everyone is AFK queuing for their next raid..

(For the Record, "Public Instances" are basically the same thing. I do not mean to Imply that these Dungeons have to be seamless with the Zone they are inside of. As long as anyone can enter without level and group size requirements and time limits. I would, however, prefer they were zones.)

I have yet to see any anti-instance supporter explain to me how "standing in town afk queuing" is any different than "standing in town afk while your party leader shouts."

If you have such a problem with queuing in a party finder, then don't use it. XI had an auto-group feature but that did no harm because players chose not to use it.

No one is stopping you from creating a linkshell of like-minded players with which to go and explore the world.

But how long will "exploration" retain players? It's not like there won't be fun and interesting things to ride out and see. The whole point of the map redesign is to make each zone look unique and give them landmarks. But how much is enough to make people happy? Exploration is great fun, but once you've seen something the first time there's little reason to go back without some reward involved.

After all, MMOs are all about working with others to achieve some goal. I know my linkshell and I will explore the crap out of those inctanses while achieving whatever goal Os attainable from them.

This whole argument just seems silly. Especially when people say "you instanced people need to gtfo" when Yoshida himself said this was the concept for 2.0. Because they'd rather have the ability to find a teammate from anywhere than just your own world.

If the biggest issue is not being able to find a player, for better or for worse, then put energy into raising awareness for the need for cross-world invites and party finder black lists. It's that simple.

The only thing non-instanced dungeons add is that it's first come, first server. So you can explore all around as you watch some other party doing the content you set out to do. I'd rather SE be able to design unique and challenging content that tests the limits of my eight-person team than the open world flagfest that was XI.

[Lucifer]

But how long will "exploration" retain players? It's not like there won't be fun and interesting things to ride out and see. The whole point of the map redesign is to make each zone look unique and give them landmarks. But how much is enough to make people happy? Exploration is great fun, but once you've seen something the first time there's little reason to go back without some reward involved.

This is why you implement a system where you force people to venture to these areas. It is that simple. If exploration is such a short-lived experience, why not just remove all areas completely? Make one big city and players will simply queue up for the dungeon they need to visit. This is what you're defending, am I wrong?
You are defending instanced-dungeons by pointing out negative features found in FFXI. Finding groups is up to the community. The medium they utilize is up to the developers.

[Rokien]

We are not being anti-instance, we just want more open world content with the instances

[Sephrick]

This is why you implement a system where you force people to venture to these areas. It is that simple. If exploration is such a short-lived experience, why not just remove all areas completely? Make one big city and players will simply queue up for the dungeon they need to visit. This is what you're defending, am I wrong?
You are defending instanced-dungeons by pointing out negative features found in FFXI. Finding groups is up to the community. The medium they utilize is up to the developers.

If there's one thing I despise more when discussing video games other than the phrase "But in the real world...", it's slippery slope arguments.

"If exploration is such a short-lived experience, why not just remove all areas completely? Make one big city and players will simply queue up for the dungeon they need to visit."

This can go on and on and on. Why not just remove the city and have people log on in a dungeon? Why not just get rid of the dungeon and have people log in to a boss battle? Why not skip the boss battle and have the people pay for a picture of a character they design holding the loot?

SE has said dungeons will be instanced, not the entire world. There still will be things like strongholds and roaming NMs.

The whole point of instancing dungeons is to have a controlled environment for more challenging game design. XI's biggest problem was that every single end game event was just a matter of throwing bodies at a problem.

The medium they utilize is up to the developers.

This is exactly the whole point. Instances give SE more control, and thus, the ability to make things more challenging. That way, dungeons can still be just as expansive, and they can make the whole experience much more specific and unique because there won't be anyone to step on your toes.

I'm not arguing to instance the game or to detract from the open world. Just a happy balance.

[Raistlin]

i posted here a suggestion for a non-instanced dungeon ^^!

[Rokien]

Yep, I liked your post, when it first came out ^.^

[Demacia]

Signed. Non-instanced dungeons like Pso'Xja or Promyvions in FFXI were great. We already have instanced raids, which are dungeon-like to begin with.

People need to stop looking at long indoor combat areas like their ONLY purpose is "Blow through mobs, kill boss, get treasure chest loot".

[Yelta_Sumasu]

I like both, instanced for when the devs want to challenge a party and open world for most everything else. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to have lots of both types of content.

There should be rare spawn open world NM's for those who want to do that. I'm even ok with a system (pop-items or timers or such) making it so people have to take turns for claim on some of them. However there should be the whole range of opportunities from the cutthroat competitive stuff to 4 buddies enter an instance and have the place to themselves.

If the game is too heavily instanced then it will no longer be a proper MMO in my mind.

[Coglin]

I like both, but after years and years in EQOA I grew to really enjoy the open world raids that I felt were done well. I am not against instances by any means. Either way I like and want raids that can require multiple groups. I love 20-40 man raids. I thought tht darkhold was a decent dungeon for an instance myself. Some may disagree. I like the free roaming NMs (need more big tough ones). I am so/so with the strongholds, just my opinion. All in all I think a mix of all of the above is great, but old school MMO guy in me likes open world and lots of it.

[Kiote]

Someone brought it up again, so it looks like the discussion is back on.