Why does Clemency get interrupted? And why does Sword/Shield Oath reset combo?

[Einheri]

WHILE mitigating 20% damage AND hitting with a 300 potency attack.

exactly warrior needs to use a skill to benefit

[Launched]

WHILE mitigating 20% damage AND hitting with a 300 potency attack.

Yeah, by using another skill on top of Defiance, while not getting healed to full from it, and also losing 200 potency +5% damage +10% crit rate by using Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave.

[Februs]

Yeah, by using another skill on top of Defiance, while not getting healed to full from it, and also losing 200 potency +5% damage +10% crit rate by using Inner Beast instead of Fell Cleave.

Yes, it is truly terrible that Warrior Tanks need to actually tank sometimes instead of pretending to be Dps. It's so sad for them. How very inconsiderate of the Dev team.

[Synestra]

WHILE mitigating 20% damage AND hitting with a 300 potency attack.

Or simply hit Holmgang and take it to the face like a man(it also has same recast as sentinel so it is kinda "spammabe" when it comes to godmode CD's)and use those stacks on FC instead. Also is there even warriors out there that uses loldefiance for anything else except enabling the use of IB anymore? most just sits in deliverance and swaps defiance only for IB and after that back to deliverance pewpew.

[Februs]

Incoming spike damage pld switches to shield oath, damage is mitigated immediate increase in effective health and effective healing.

This is not accurate. Increase in effective health... maybe (though not exactly. It's more like increase in Hp Mitigated. Effective Hp would also include expendable HP. A Pld gets 0 additional eHP from switching Oaths), but even if you consider Shield Oath a increase in effective health it is most certainly not an increase in effective healing.

Shield Oath does nothing to increase a Pld's Hp pool or increase the amount of Hp restored by a Healer. The potency of the healing they receive is not changed by Oaths (unlike Wars). They might take a shallower hit because of the Oath switch, but it is not easier for the Hp to get restored. In that Regard, Wars have an unquestionable advantage. They may have to use an additional skill to take full advantage of that eHp (in an nightmare world in which your healer completely ignores you), but even that is not an issue, because none of a War's Wrath/Abandon moves interrupt their primary combo, nor does switching stances. Switching is seamless.

In all honestly, there really is no excuse (except carelessness or laziness) for a War to switch stances and not have a CD at the ready for immediate use, especially with Infuriate at their disposal.

[Launched]

This is not accurate. Increase in effective health... maybe (though not exactly. It's more like increase in Hp Mitigated. Effective Hp would also include expendable HP. A Pld gets 0 additional eHP from switching Oaths), but even if you consider Shield Oath a increase in effective health it is most certainly not an increase in effective healing.

You don't have a clue how tank stances or eHP works. Every bit of mitigation you get effectively increases your HP, whether it's 20% reduced damage from Rampart or 25% increased HP from Defiance. A PLD with 16k HP and Shield Oath effectively has 25% more HP: 20k eHP. And no, WAR doesn't have an easier time getting healed. Defiance only increases healing by 20% while HP is increased by 25%, so WARs actually recover LESS of their eHP from every single heal compared to PLD. And there's also the fact that abilities like Tetra and Lustrate aren't affected by Defiance at all.

Yes, it is truly terrible that Warrior Tanks need to actually tank sometimes instead of pretending to be Dps. It's so sad for them. How very inconsiderate of the Dev team.

Where did I say I was complaining about tanking? I like tanking as WAR. I'm pointing out that swapping to Defiance has its own disadvantages, which many PLDs/DRKs don't seem to realise.

[Februs]

You don't have a clue how tank stances or eHP works. Every bit of mitigation you get effectively increases your HP, whether it's 20% reduced damage from Rampart or 25% increased HP from Defiance. A PLD with 16k HP and Shield Oath effectively has 25% more HP: 20k eHP.

I know how Tank Stances and eHp work just fine, thank you.

I never said that Hp mitigated was not included in the eHp of a tank. I merely distinguished between Hp mitigated vs. Total Hp, and stated that the Hp gained by Defiance is included in eHp, giving War’s the advantage.

Comparing stances (using your example), SwO provides 20% increase in eHp, resulting in an additional 3200 Hp on a 16k tank. Even if we’re assuming that the War has the same starting Hp (impossible unless under-geared, but whatever), Defiance (at 25%) provides 4000 eHp. This is not immediate, but is easily fixed by one cure II, especially with a 20% in healing. I’m assuming this discrepancy is why you chose to ignore ShO and compare Rampart, but we weren’t comparing def CD’s. We were comparing stances. If you have to bring in CD’s to compensate for a discrepancy, than that should have given you a hint right there that War’s Stance Dance is beneficial.

WAR doesn't have an easier time getting healed. Defiance only increases healing by 20% while HP is increased by 25%, so WARs actually recover LESS of their eHP from every single heal compared to PLD.

Not sure where you’re getting this from either. It’s true that the higher Hp pool of a War means that the healer has to heal more to the War… but I never said they didn’t. What I said was that a War gets a 20% increase in healing and Pld’s do not. War’s might recover less of their total Hp, but they recover more Hp per heal. A 20% increase is a 20% increase. The maximum Hp does not make a difference to this, so I don’t know why you even bring it up. For every 1000 Hp a Pld gets back, a War gets 1250. That’s a faster healing rate. Saying otherwise is nonsense.

And there's also the fact that abilities like Tetra and Lustrate aren't affected by Defiance at all.

So what? You singled out two moves that have such a high healing potency it makes no difference (which is precisely why they are unaffected) unless we’re factoring in over-healed values. I guess we could calculate how much hate a healer can steal from a tank, but that’s pretty irrelevant to Tank stances.

Where did I say I was complaining about tanking? I like tanking as WAR. I'm pointing out that swapping to Defiance has its own disadvantages, which many PLDs/DRKs don't seem to realise.

Good for you... Where did I say you were complaining? Seems to me like I never once accused you of complaining. If anything, I was acknowledging (albeit sarcastically), that you were pointing out a fairly piss-poor disadvantage of Stance Swapping as War.

The sarcasm only comes in because, these days, ever single War who is defending the pedestal they stand on cites lowering their Dps as some kind of disadvantage to actually being in their Tank stance. Strictly speaking, you’re not wrong. It is a disadvantage, but compared to Drk’s and Pld’s (to whom we were comparing) it’s a pretty limp disadvantage (especially to Pld’s who suffer poor Dps regardless of which stance they are in).

[Launched]

confused babbling

No, you don't know how tank stances work. It doesn't matter that I compared Rampart to Defiance, it provides the same amount of mitigation as Shield Oath. Shield Oath is a 2520%reduction in damage, which equals a 25% increase in eHP, which equals the eHP WAR gains from Defiance.

More HP per heal is completely irrelevant, because WAR is recovering a lower percentage of its eHP on every heal compared to a PLD. A 2k Cure on a 16k PLD is 12.5% of the PLD's HP. A 2k Cure on a 20k WAR gets buffed to 2.4k, which is only 12%. That's a lower heal for the WAR. A 4k Lustrate on that PLD is 25% of its HP, on WAR it doesn't get buffed so it's 4k out of 20k: 20%. That's a pretty significant difference in healing. The number you see on the screen doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is eHP after all your defensive buffs, and it's a fact that WAR receives less healing compared to their eHP than PLD does.

[Einheri]

This is not accurate. Increase in effective health... maybe (though not exactly. It's more like increase in Hp Mitigated. Effective Hp would also include expendable HP. A Pld gets 0 additional eHP from switching Oaths), but even if you consider Shield Oath a increase in effective health it is most certainly not an increase in effective healing.

Shield Oath does nothing to increase a Pld's Hp pool or increase the amount of Hp restored by a Healer. The potency of the healing they receive is not changed by Oaths.

it it would take 25,000 damage to kill a 20khp tank with shield oath increasing their effective health pool by 25%
while only requiring 20k in heals to return to full. 20k healing on a defiance warrior with the bonus from defiance would be 24k hp, 96% as effective as healing a pld.

Effective health
Effective healing

[Syzygian]

Are WAR mains really coming in here and saying they are harder to heal/take hits less efficiently than DRK/PLD?

Congratulations tank forums, I now have cancer.