Why does Clemency get interrupted? And why does Sword/Shield Oath reset combo?

[abzoluut]

Because paladin wasnt developed to fluidly switch between stances.

Because you say so? WAR did not even have two stances. Every WAR just dropped defiance back then (at least the ones that wanted to max DPS). We basically gave SE the idea to give WAR a DPS stance.

Long before HW people asked why the oaths are so clunky. It even became more of an issue when suddenly WAR got what people asked for PLD. On top of that, the new tank gets introduced with the exact same clumsyness?

I to this day can not find a reason for this decision. Why do you not want tanks with two stances use it to the max? One of the reasons WAR is so much fun.

I hope they change it for both PLD and DRK.

[VanilleFang]

snip

I remember after one patch some MNKs started complaining that DRGs were doing too much damage. Lol. Everyone told them to stfu.

[Februs]

2.55->3.0 for dragoon because it all got fixed back in 2.4. Actually, Dragoon got a ton of tiny adjustments over the life of 2.0 - jump animation and cooldown used to be much, much longer.

I remember, but I still wouldn't say that Dragoons were by any means broken before the adjustments.

Positional requirements are still in place for maximum combo potency, not much really changed for Drg's who were already maximizing their Dps. The only immediate benefit Drg's universally saw from that was the ability to re-apply Heavy Lance without having to re-position in the event a Flank hit was impossible. Quite frankly, if you learned how to use Drg before the change, it just felt like a Quality of Life adjustment that lowered the skill bar for new or lazy players. Seasoned Drg's were happy with it, obviously, but they still positioned to maximize Dps, so it wasn't huge or anything.

The magic defense adjustment was definitely a good thing though. Even back before Final Coil, the Magic dmg from Turns like T9 was a nightmare for Drg's, so it was a very welcomed change... That being said, I still wouldn't say that it was a make or break issue for Drg's. Healers certainly hated having to take extra special care of them, but their abysmal Magic def didn't make them unplayable. I don't think anyone was booting Drg's out of Raids because of their Defense.

You're right though. By the time 3.0 rolled around there wasn't really anything left to change. Jump animations still get debated a little (since Drg's can still eat the paste if they're not careful with their jumps), but I don't think anyone's dropping the job over it.

[Giantbane]

Given that we have PLD at one end (2 GCDs, highest mana cost), Warrior at the other (no GCD loss, possible health loss and slower eHP increase), and DRK exactly in the middle of that 'ease of swapping' spectrum (1 GCD loss, moderate mana cost)...

In reality, the PLD only loses time. MP is meaningless to PLD in the vast majority of situations where they'd even consider stance dancing. The MP a DRK spends always means lost damage, since excess MP can always be used to dump into DA + SE (or DA + DP if you've really got an excess of MP). So in practice, the PLD is losing 2x GCD worth of damage, while the DRK is losing 1 GCD and another ~85ish potency (75% of the difference between a DE and a DA + SE). I mean, DRK still has it better than the poor PLD at this point, but it's worth understanding.

The health that the WAR loses should be considered significant. But they also have, hands down, the best self healing among the 3 tanks, so it's sort of moo.

[Giantbane]

I hope they change it for both PLD and DRK.

Me too, it really feels much better with the WAR setup.

[Syzygian]

I can't speak for PLD cause they lose 2 whole GCDs for either stance but for DRK (and no DRK does not lose more from its stance dancing. We save a GCD and 1326 MP is very little for a DRK), Grit is treated more like an infinite Inner Beast that does no damage. When you consider the fact that Grit automatically reduces damage, and does not require healer intervention like Defiance (you don't take any less damage in Defiance) it kind of makes sense. I feel like DRK was designed with this in mind, using Grit as more of a cooldown than a stance. PLD does not have this design context however, so I have no clue what they were thinking there.

[Einheri]

Incoming spike damage pld switches to shield oath, damage is mitigated immediate increase in effective health and effective healing.

Incoming spike damage war switches to defiance, dies as increase in effective health is not immediate.

pld uses a skill to activate his mitigation. Warrior needs to use a skill to benefit from his.

[Aniond]

An easy fix for this would have a skill proc a chance to remove the cast time - Like blocking an attack, etc. It has high enough MP requirement that it couldn't be taken advantage of.

[Syzygian]

An easy fix for this would have a skill proc a chance to remove the cast time - Like blocking an attack, etc. It has high enough MP requirement that it couldn't be taken advantage of.

A proc means RNG, and we already have enough crybaby tanks pissing and moaning about RNG instead of rolling with the punches. I'm against anything that'll make the tanking community whinier. Its already at its whiny-ness cap.

[Giantbane]

Incoming spike damage pld switches to shield oath, damage is mitigated immediate increase in effective health and effective healing.

Incoming spike damage war switches to defiance, dies as increase in effective health is not immediate.

pld uses a skill to activate his mitigation. Warrior needs to use a skill to benefit from his.

But a war switching to defiance to take spike damage is probably going to be using Inner Beast to mitigate that attack. In which case they'll be restoring some of that missing HP on their own.