Reclamation of Inactive Housing announced

[Blood-Aki]

So if you tried to log on tomorrow and SE had deleted your character, your reaction would be "Well, I agreed to the TOS that said they could, so that's fine"?

Yes, because losing your character is the exact same as losing a full vanity based content. That can be replaced with enough gill. Great example.

[Ibi]

Yes, because losing your character is the exact same as losing a full vanity based content. That can be replaced with enough gill. Great example.

The argument was "there was always an agreement that SE can do pretty much whatever they damn well like with your character data, virtual items (and thus housing) included."

Deleting your character is a subset of "pretty much whatever they damn well like", so while it's obviously not the same, Nailen's argument was that once you've agreed to the TOS, you must accept any and all decisions SE make, without complaint.

[Blood-Aki]

The argument was "there was always an agreement that SE can do pretty much whatever they damn well like with your character data, virtual items (and thus housing) included."

Deleting your character is a subset of "pretty much whatever they damn well like", so while it's obviously not the same, Nailen's argument was that once you've agreed to the TOS, you must accept any and all decisions SE make, without complaint.

They can, but for whatever reason they would have to delete your character you would most likely get banned anyway. which is pretty much the same thing, All of what we use is the property of SE. and we all agreed they can do whatever they want. But like any business, they won't just go around deleting characters because they feel like it, or that will make for some very upset people and massive loss of business,

My point, however, was comparing your character to housing plots is not a good example.

[Ibi]

we all agreed they can do whatever they want. But like any business, they won't just go around deleting characters because they feel like it, or that will make for some very upset people and massive loss of business,

The bolded text highlights the point I'm trying to make.

Nailen's argument was "You signed a TOS saying they're allowed to do this, so you shouldn't complain." My argument is that if you're going to make that argument, you have to apply it unilaterally, you can't just pick and choose.

My point, however, was comparing your character to housing plots is not a good example.

Fine, since you can't get over the specifics of the example to focus on the actual point:

If you tried to log on tomorrow and SE had deleted all your glamour items/companions/mounts/titles/achievements, would your reaction be "Well, I agreed to the TOS that said they could, so that's fine"?

[Nalien]

So if you tried to log on tomorrow and SE had deleted your character, your reaction would be "Well, I agreed to the TOS that said they could, so that's fine"?

No, I'd be pretty outraged, though I'd have no grounds to sue them or anything over it. If, however, they said "If you don't log in for X days, we'll delete your character to save space", which is much closer to what is happening with housing (though housing data is likely far more robust than character data), I'd be OK with that, provide X was something reasonable, like a year or two... The difference is how reasonable something is, just straight up deleting ones character is unreasonable, going "We'll give you warning, but if you're not going to keep playing, we're eventually going to free up some space by removing your character" is, at least IMO, reasonable. The key is the time frame given, which is the only thing I'd take any issue with here.

When the lead developer says "these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won’t have any system like that" I think it's reasonable to expect that they won't have any system like that, and to be shocked, disappointed, and voice criticisms when they announce a system like that.

True, he is going back on his word (is anyone surprised by that? Going back to the ToS, that's basically what it's for... That's why I brought it up, not because I'm fine with them just straight up deleting players stuff without warning...), but the thing is... Back then they didn't anticipate how popular the game was going to be, this games launch was an abject lesson in that... The current housing system, with no reclamation system, might have worked for the number of subscribers they expected around launch (at which point most of this stuff would be beyond the planning stage...), we'll never know if that was the case though, because the game turned out to be far more popular than they'd ever imagined, and it would seem to be slowly growing... When all this stuff was being set up, they never expected how much demand there would be for the actual game, let alone its virtual housing...

Back when I think it was a case of "Oh sure, I doubt we'll fill all the Wards anyway...", but now it's a case of "How many subscribers do we have?! We can't afford that many servers!", and a saving has to be made somewhere. Would you rather they start charging real money for plots? That's certainly the best way to get more cash for servers while dealing with the issue (worked for Retainers, after all). I'd certainly rather they simply start evicting non-players to free up some space.

[Yshnal]

What some people seem to be forgetting is that, even if you're still paying your sub, if for whatever reason you can't log-in during a month and half ONCE in maybe 10 years, you lose your house. I don't find that okay, and as some posters have said it would be as if they randomly decided that your character (alts included) gets wiped if you don't log-in in a month, even if you're still paying the sub, or if they take away your house because you don't want to raid, for example. It's ridiculous to think that someone can be okay with them taking anything away from you while you're still paying, no matter what the ToS say. Yes, they can do whatever pleases them, but it doesn't make it right.

[Avidria]

Hmm.

It seems like what they could've done to avoid some of the complaints I'm seeing would be to base the timer on subscription activity for private houses and to make it so ALL furniture (why do we even have one-time use only furniture to begin with??) gets saved at the reclamation npc guy. Perhaps raising the timer to 60 days as well.

But until we get more housing, or instanced housing for everyone,this was definitely needed. My fc has a small house in the goblet, and we're surrounded by houses of all sizes that house...well, nobody. There are owners and fc's (that are down to 1-10 inactive people) that haven't been playing for months. We have more than one plot that was bought ages ago but the buyer never even built a house there. That's dozens of plots that no one is using and that no one can buy, even if they're swimming in gil. People who want houses can't have them because there aren't any available - and they aren't even being used by the people that own them.

Of the mmo's I've played with some form of housing in them, this is probably the worst system I've seen.

[Iromi]

I'm neither against nor for this, I don't really care..it doesn't bother me, but I can understand why it bothers some at the same time!

Anyway, I'll just leave this here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/113554
1:14:22
Q: Will there be any maintenance fees or other costs for housing, besides the cost of the land and house?
A: In older MMOs, such as Ultima Online, there was a house maintenance fee you had to pay weekly, but in FFXIV: ARR we decided against this system. Similarly, these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

One thing I do not like, is when they say one thing and do something else. First it was personal housing being separate price from FC, then it was SMN egi, now this apparently, what is next It is hard for me to follow them and take them seriously because what they say changes so much. Not saying they are horrible people, again, they are only human, I just can't really take stuff they say seriously anymore...at all.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I'm neither against nor for this, I don't really care..it doesn't bother me, but I can understand why it bothers some at the same time!

Anyway, I'll just leave this here:



One thing I do not like, is when they say one thing and do something else. First it was personal housing being separate price from FC, then it was SMN egi, now this apparently, what is next It is hard for me to follow them and take them seriously because what they say changes so much. Not saying they are horrible people, again, they are only human, I just can't really take stuff they say seriously anymore...at all.

You aren't understand what he is saying. He's not saying there won't be a relinquish system. Hes saying the house won't need a maintenance fee AND it won't visibly break down( start to look unused, broken, cracked walls, that kind of stuff)

[Aoxaviar]

I think that SE needs to provide the following as a means for aiding casual players and those who are not able to meet getting online (military and others who are not able to access the game for long time duration):

With the emails that they will be sending out to private and/or FC players, provide a link to take a person to the site that will allow them to either reset the clock as a way of "checking in" to the estate, or something along those lines.

In the USA, people can hold mail with the USPS if they are going to be gone for short or long periods of time. Why not have SE setup a way for a player and/or FC to be able to do the same?

This would allow for players to be able to put a start position on or reset the 45 day timer remotely in lieu of being in game. For those who unsub and those who are not able to access the game for long periods, this is a win-win for aiding those players who have worked (or grinded in some cases) to get that house and now keep it.

As for the time period of 45 days, I think it is a good one.

Let the love and hate begin!