Job and Subjob system instead of classes?

[Corrderio]

Clearly there is, or else we wouldn't be getting a job system.

Job system was mostly for the whiners that wanted "FF jobs" or whatever the dumb excuse was. Nothing is stopping SE from making the higher tier abilities restricted to the class it came from.

[notebene]

No class is unique, no class brings anything to a party (recent healing changes somewhat changes this, but all frontline are still exactly the same with a different weapon graphic.)

Nothing works well in FFXIV, which is why they're introducing the job system. They wouldn't be adding the job system if they decided the class system is absolutely perfect.

I guess I never thought it was 'perfect'.

So it's mostly about the paradigm of the party system then? Trying to establish 'the holy trinity and friends' so the people that form parties can decide who to take and who to not take with them in any situation based on their job name? I thought it 'might' be mostly about that, but I didn't want to make any assumptions.

I guess on the one hand, it would have been nice if 'the world' (that our characters live in) wasn't put together in such a way that lends itself the system, rather than abandoning a more organic progression in favor of the old paradigm of needing a tank, and a healer, and some dps people, to make a party.

It just seems like the holy trinity strangles creativity when it comes to bringing a character into a virtual world, then deciding what you want to become. I've also been playing a bit of Rift lately, and that was supposed to be this amazing thing where you have this 1-of-4 base class, and then you can mix together all this wonderful stuff and be whatever you want. But at the end of the day, the complaints are the same thing as in any MMO: Where are the tanks and healers?

It would be nice to go to a dungeon with 5 people, and across the 5 people, there was enough of what you needed to do to overcome the situation.

But at least I understand it 'seems' like it's mostly about the trinity, and getting some clear cut labels on people to make it easier for the Type A leaders to decide whether you will be useful to their group or not.

That sounds fun, for people who really need that to hang on to. I hope they, as they say, also keep the base class concepts around that they have now, where you pick up 'cards' that you learn from various classes and put your deck together and then go out in the world as your base class (depending on your tool) and your deck of cards. That seems new and interesting and different to me still

Thank you for responding! Many of my questions get buried, probably because they aren't very good questions, but often times I get curious as to why people are fighting about things I don't really understand.

[Davorok]

A lot of peeps seem to be having difficulty understanding the concept of the Job System so I will try to use a real world analogy to explain. Military Operations.

If you are fighting a battle in an outdoor environment you want soldiers that are cross-trained in many weapons, tactics and basic first-aid. This way you can adapt to changing battlefield environments, pick up a fallen soldiers weapon, apply first-aid, even run away and regroup to try another assault tactic. Open World battles are less about teamwork and more about attrition and adaptability.

Special Forces Missions are quite different. You have a small group of highly trained specialists who must act as a team, each one carrying out his role to perfection in order to achieve a clear objective, whether it be capturing/killing Bin Laden, rescuing hostages, sabotage or even intelligence gathering. Each team member has a specialty (with some cross-class training) ie., Heavy Weapons, Sniper, Engineer/Demolitions, Medic, Communications/IT(computers). Think of Team Fortress or even Halo as examples. Yes each soldier can do the others job in a pinch but for the team to operate in top form and effeciency, each member must use his specialties.

So just think of FFXIV Classes as the well rounded, cross trained soldier that can be sent into any situation and has a decent chance at success if he can adapt to changing environs and enemies. (Open-World Quests and Grinding)

Think of FFXIV Jobs as Navy Seals or Army Rangers (specialists) who are sent in to a specific location to do a specific mission and rely heavily on teamwork to achieve their objective. (Dungeons & Raids).

I realize the analogy kinda falls apart if we are to believe that a Navy Seal/Ranger is useless out in the field apart from his team but I suspect/guess that The Grand Companies are somehow going to magically "imbue us" with these extra abilities/jobs just for the duration of the Mission/Dungeon/Raid.

Some of my thoughts anyway...probably wrong...usually am...so move along...nothing to see here.

http://youtu.be/4EYlXay0njE

[odette]

job system ok
Subjob no thanks
idk many ffxi fan players want ffxi-2, but SE say ffxiv is diffenrent game, for me yes please.
if you like ffxi go back, dont ruin this game

[Nanaya]

One of the major problems with XIV is Square has been trying to reinvent the wheel, and every attempt at that creates some horrific amalgam of pure fail, their wheel is not even a shape that should exist in the natural world, let alone roll.

Simply put, don't fix what isn't broken. I see the appeal in the armory system, it is indeed enticing to be able to use any ability you want, but as with many things they have tried, it is terrible when implemented. Although, I honestly think it might work if every class could use every weapon, although with a preference towards certain types of weaponry, which I am sure sounds familiar.

But I've taken to being wary of any new ideas they come up with, because their track record with implementing things not directly excised from the decaying corpse of FFXI has been pretty damn awful.

[Zanfire]

There is a reason why no game has come up with something great to replace the "trinity" or having open ended charaters (aka: no class) turn into a few combos of abilitys that work. That reason is its just not easy to create a system that is brand new, or a open system that is perfectly balanced. The day that game comes out, everyone else will be copying it.

This game in its situation can't afford (literary) to try something totally new, so what we get is what we get. But either way, there is no game out there thats SO different and unique yet, we have to deal with the tropes.

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

Science forbid that they try something new instead going back to the job/subjob system. No FF has used the same combat/class system twice, yes there has been some similarities but not the same system. I rather them continue that tradition with the whole class/job system than falling back on the job/subjob system.

[AJ_Anyia]

It's been said before many many times and it will be repeated here. For SE to get rid of the Class System and replace it with a Job System everything that the Class system touches would have to be re-calibrated. Buildings in cities, NPCs and dialogue in the game, the lore of the game itself, and not to mention we'd all be reset back to square one making whatever you accomplished in this game moot. Crafting is part of this Class System as well, and with a Job System that would be relegated back to the crafting system of XI. A system that most people don't like and hardly use. SE adding this Job System to go alongside the Class System is their way of appeasing the group that's been crying/shouting/screaming/annoying for it to be put in place.

[Esk]

As long a with jobs, playing Y Class dose not = xxx job only, I think the system will ada a lot to the game.

I think if jobs are more rolls that buff your class, and focus/limit its ability's but make it exceptional at that job in the party, then it will make for a very interesting Change.
An each job buffs each class in a slightly different way. ( I think they should not be accessable to all class, they would have to work for the class so some would be more limited then others.)

If on the other hand you just get to change only from a class to a specific job (so more more like you ranked up glad into uber tank), then well meh, yeah roll on FFXI job system plz.

[AsterBarnivere]

INB4..
Refresh <Can I have it?>
Raise <Can I have it?>
Why a you a WAR/WHM?
DarkKnights using a scythe? Use a greatsword that's better.
Can you change your subjob to /NIN? kthx.
Vermillion Cloak? LOLGTFONEWB <kick>
OMGHEALME!! <Can't mp..>
TP REFRESH PLZ! <wildcard is random, I can't assure you that you'll get a TP refresh>
OMFG YOU GANKED MY ELECTRUMRING! GMCALL
Almost everyone had a subjob of NIN or DNC.
etc.

ahhh the nostalgia of FFXI 10 years ago..