Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Ronik]

I've been putting a lot of thought into this lately. We already know from developer letters and posts that a Job system is coming which will feature specialized combat roles. Once this system is implemented, there will be little to no reason to ever use a class role. Why would I play Gladiator when Paladin is better equipped to tank? Why even have the option to be a Marauder if I am fully expected to use Warrior in any and every combat situation? In short, the class system will go unused once we have access to jobs. Why should we bother keeping the class system in-game if it unnecessarily complicates things?

What I propose is the following:

A) All current classes are renamed as follows:

Gladiator → Paladin
Marauder → Warrior
Pugilist → Monk
Lancer → Dragoon
Thaumaturge → Black Mage
Conjurer → White Mage
Archer → Ranger

B) Class abilities are re-assigned as necessary. E.g. Black Mage would receive the nukes/debuffs from Conjurer, but the buff/heal spells would go to White Mage.

C) All references in-game to the previous classes are simply edited and updated. Guild names are updated, NPC references to classes are edited, etc.

I firmly believe that having a job-only system would be an improvement in every which way over the current plan of classes co-existing alongside jobs. For one, traditional job names are part of long-established "Final Fantasy" lore. This will make the game feel more familiar to all the FF fans out there. Secondly, I cannot fathom a single situation where we would want to be entering combat as a class rather than as a job.

The way I see it, the class system is a relic from the old-development direction of this game, and we no longer need it. I cannot see any cons to removing the class system. Cross-job abilities would need to be examined, but surely the cost of doing so is greatly compensated by the benefit of an elegant and simple system which, due to experience with FFXI, we KNOW will work.

[TheVedis]

1 big reason

by keeping classes, each "class" will end up with 2 possible roles in a party
that role which is created by not using a job, and another created by using the job which lets them specialize

[MrKupo]

I think I also read somewhere that its made to be difficult to solo with the jobs. idk tho

[TheVedis]

I think I also read somewhere that its made to be difficult to solo with the jobs. idk tho

you read right

jobs are specialties, youll basicaly lose all non job related abilities when you do it(no more healing unless your a healer for instance) and this can make it extremely difficult

classes are gonna be the new low man/solo methods
and jobs are gonna be meant for raiding when you can afford to specialize(that archer doesnt need healing during a raid for instance, he perhaps needs more damage and such)

[Kailok]

While I do agree with you that jobs should just take over, I also doubt that the class system will be taken away. There are too many people that enjoy the idea of the Armory System (gaining the skills from other classes).

I am interested to see how they manage to marry the Classes and Jobs in the future. I guess we'll see with time.

If not, I imagine it will be somewhat like FFT eventually:

Start off with standard classes and eventually there will be Jobs available based on the combinations of classes you have leveled.

I.E.:

CON + THM both level 30 will make RDM an available job to switch to.

At least, I'm hoping for something like FFT.

[Cairdeas]

you read right

jobs are specialties, youll basicaly lose all non job related abilities when you do it(no more healing unless your a healer for instance) and this can make it extremely difficult

classes are gonna be the new low man/solo methods
and jobs are gonna be meant for raiding when you can afford to specialize(that archer doesnt need healing during a raid for instance, he perhaps needs more damage and such)

Its too bad the archers going to be singing and dancing instead :P

[TheVedis]

Its too bad the archers going to be singing and dancing instead :P

lol yeah no kidding, thats gonna be hilarious

but it was just an example

[Ronik]

you read right

jobs are specialties, youll basicaly lose all non job related abilities when you do it(no more healing unless your a healer for instance) and this can make it extremely difficult

classes are gonna be the new low man/solo methods
and jobs are gonna be meant for raiding when you can afford to specialize(that archer doesnt need healing during a raid for instance, he perhaps needs more damage and such)

This is a design choice which was made in order to accomodate both the job and class systems. They could just as easily make the jobs capable of soloing and eliminate classes entirely. Frankly, it would be a lot less work than trying to balance around some kind of in-party, out-of-party role identity. Why should we have to switch? Why would it make a difference if we wanted to solo as a Paladin vs solo as a Gladiator?

For example:

A Paladin could just as easily be given all the tools a Gladiator has for soloing, and then we don't have to worry about switching roles when we're soloing or when we're partying. We will simply be a Paladin the entire time around, regardless of what we're doing. This seems far more elegant and practical than dividing the entire game into "solo vs group" role dynamics. You simply give every Job some way to heal a little in a solo situation, and suddenly they're all perfectly viable for leves/solo grinding.

[TheVedis]

The problem with that Ronik is the selling point of the game changes completely.
Also, by "forcing" jobs on people, you go against what Yoshi has stated to begin with, how no one will lose their progress due to changes

an option al job system(which is what we are getting) goes right along with what hes stated
we get to keep what we leveled, and add on to it if we so choose


there is really NOTHING wrong with the classes we have now, especialy since they are working on diversifying the classes in themselves on top of the addition of the job system

[Ronik]

The problem with that Ronik is the selling point of the game changes completely.
Also, by "forcing" jobs on people, you go against what Yoshi has stated to begin with, how no one will lose their progress due to changes

an option al job system(which is what we are getting) goes right along with what hes stated
we get to keep what we leveled, and add on to it if we so choose


there is really NOTHING wrong with the classes we have now, especialy since they are working on diversifying the classes in themselves on top of the addition of the job system

I will address your points seperately:

For one, this game has changed so extensively in both design and direction that you can't really pull the "selling point" card. It will continue to radically change right up to the PS3 release, and everyone who is playing the game at this point both expects and understands that drastic changes ARE happening.

Secondly, nobody is losing progress because of this change. If you levelled a class to R50, you will have an R50 job after the switch. The only change is that you will have a more specialized set of abilities and your fancy name will be replaced by a traditional Final Fantasy job name. In some cases, the classes will barely change in the transition from class to job (Pugilist to Monk would be largely similar, as would Paladin to Gladiator and Marauder to Warrior). Again, nobody is losing any progress with my change.

Right now there is nothing wrong with the class system because it is the only system. Once we have a job system added on top of it, we are significantly over-complicating combat roles. We simply do not need two layers of combat roles which perform vaguely different tasks at any given time. We should keep things simple with the tried-and-true approach of having a clearly and solidly defined job system.